SCCA rules, rule out big bore motors Options

[carr914]

I'm hoping to see 220+ hp and 175 ftlbs but the torque may be a bit on the optimistic side. I intend to build it with a very light rotating mass and use a non counterweighted 2.0 crankshaft with E cams. I would like to have a 8,000 rpm redline and gear the car low. I think this could work if I keep the car light. Granted I am just now beginning to aquire the parts needed and have no idea how I am going to be able to afford everything. Buying a 3.2 or a 3.6 would be cheaper but I already have the 2.7.

Numbers aren't far off.

I got 214hp, 185ftlbs out of this 2.5

On the dyno or to the wheels?

Beautiful motor!

Dyno

It's in a 911R in England now

[Woody]

I'm hoping to see 220+ hp and 175 ftlbs but the torque may be a bit on the optimistic side. I intend to build it with a very light rotating mass and use a non counterweighted 2.0 crankshaft with E cams. I would like to have a 8,000 rpm redline and gear the car low. I think this could work if I keep the car light. Granted I am just now beginning to aquire the parts needed and have no idea how I am going to be able to afford everything. Buying a 3.2 or a 3.6 would be cheaper but I already have the 2.7.

Numbers aren't far off.

I got 214hp, 185ftlbs out of this 2.5

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif) Thats gorgeous.

[J P Stein]

I understand that people want to go faster, but what's the point of running a Porsche without a Porsche motor?

If you want to drive a subie so bad, use a damn subie for your racecar.

I never got that ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

That's cause you've never walked a mile in my shoes.

Bring your finly crafted German knife to one of my gunfights and you'll figure it out. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Randal]

I understand that people want to go faster, but what's the point of running a Porsche without a Porsche motor?

If you want to drive a subie so bad, use a damn subie for your racecar.

I never got that ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

That's cause you've never walked a mile in my shoes.

Bring your finly crafted German knife to one of my gunfights and you'll figure it out. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

My engine is about 210-215hp - 175ftlbs on the dyno. I say about 210/215 as when we did the dyno work it had the wrong valve springs. We never took it above 6K where it was 202hp and 175 ft lbs. It has 175hp and almost the same ft lb on the chassis dyno with the correct valve springs.

I'd put on a turbo or SC, just not sure whether the bottom end would hold up to 250hp and +/-215 ftlbs.

Nothing like ploughing new ground.

[jhadler]

I understand that people want to go faster, but what's the point of running a Porsche without a Porsche motor?

If you want to drive a subie so bad, use a damn subie for your racecar.

I never got that ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

If Subie made a mid-engined rear wheel drive sports car, I would. Which is why I'm eying the latest from Factory Five Racing...

For me, it's not about the name, it's about the capability of the chassis. The 914 is a great platform, but the motor is more costly and less powerful and more unreliable compared to contemporary designs.

-Josh

[J P Stein]

I understand that people want to go faster, but what's the point of running a Porsche without a Porsche motor?

If you want to drive a subie so bad, use a damn subie for your racecar.

I never got that ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

If Subie made a mid-engined rear wheel drive sports car, I would. Which is why I'm eying the latest from Factory Five Racing...

For me, it's not about the name, it's about the capability of the chassis. The 914 is a great platform, but the motor is more costly and less powerful and more unreliable compared to contemporary designs.

-Josh

Couple that with the absurd 1.4 multiplier that SCCA applies for forced induction and one would be pretty damn foolish to spend a pee pot fulla money on a NA engine.....Porsche engines in particular.

I have read that them F1 guys (back in the 80s) ran up to 80 psi boost.....1100 hp from 1.5L in qualifying trim (that would be bout 3 AX passes)......they were a tad peaky tho. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) With today's electronics, who knows....on alcohol with a bit of "pop" slipped in.....

[jhadler]

I understand that people want to go faster, but what's the point of running a Porsche without a Porsche motor?

If you want to drive a subie so bad, use a damn subie for your racecar.

I never got that ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

If Subie made a mid-engined rear wheel drive sports car, I would. Which is why I'm eying the latest from Factory Five Racing...

For me, it's not about the name, it's about the capability of the chassis. The 914 is a great platform, but the motor is more costly and less powerful and more unreliable compared to contemporary designs.

-Josh

Couple that with the absurd 1.4 multiplier that SCCA applies for forced induction and one would be pretty damn foolish to spend a pee pot fulla money on a NA engine.....Porsche engines in particular.

I have read that them F1 guys (back in the 80s) ran up to 80 psi boost.....1100 hp from 1.5L in qualifying trim (that would be bout 3 AX passes)......they were a tad peaky tho. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) With today's electronics, who knows....on alcohol with a bit of "pop" slipped in.....

And now those turbo sewing machines are coming back! New rules in the pipeline for F1... :-)

[J P Stein]

It may be that the old bod is not up to building another car but that 818 looks like the cat's ass....a modern 914. Going "lights out" while laying on a creeper don't appeal much to me.

Lookin' good.
I dunno if the "build for under $15k" is true or not, but it's tempting.

[Randal]

It may be that the old bod is not up to building another car but that 818 looks like the cat's ass....a modern 914. Going "lights out" while laying on a creeper don't appeal much to me.

Lookin' good.
I dunno if the "build for under $15k" is true or not, but it's tempting.

Tempting for sure JP.

Wonder what class it would have to run in SCCA?

[jhadler]

It may be that the old bod is not up to building another car but that 818 looks like the cat's ass....a modern 914. Going "lights out" while laying on a creeper don't appeal much to me.

Lookin' good.
I dunno if the "build for under $15k" is true or not, but it's tempting.

Tempting for sure JP.

Wonder what class it would have to run in SCCA?

Not sure it would be a favorable class as it's not even a kit car based on a production model. For the cars it would likely class against, think: "Trailer-riding-fire-breathing-monsters"...

But it'd be one hoot and a holler of a car to drive....

-Josh

[J P Stein]

It may be that the old bod is not up to building another car but that 818 looks like the cat's ass....a modern 914. Going "lights out" while laying on a creeper don't appeal much to me.

Lookin' good.
I dunno if the "build for under $15k" is true or not, but it's tempting.

Tempting for sure JP.

Wonder what class it would have to run in SCCA?

Not sure it would be a favorable class as it's not even a kit car based on a production model. For the cars it would likely class against, think: "Trailer-riding-fire-breathing-monsters"...

But it'd be one hoot and a holler of a car to drive....

-Josh

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
Prolly A Mod......maybe B.
Factory 5 Cobras can run in E Mod or XP, so given time, who knows...

A guy would have to throw class warfare out the window & just have fun.....but you still get a time, then drive it home. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Randal]

It may be that the old bod is not up to building another car but that 818 looks like the cat's ass....a modern 914. Going "lights out" while laying on a creeper don't appeal much to me.

Lookin' good.
I dunno if the "build for under $15k" is true or not, but it's tempting.

Tempting for sure JP.

Wonder what class it would have to run in SCCA?

Not sure it would be a favorable class as it's not even a kit car based on a production model. For the cars it would likely class against, think: "Trailer-riding-fire-breathing-monsters"...

But it'd be one hoot and a holler of a car to drive....

-Josh

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
Prolly A Mod......maybe B.
Factory 5 Cobras can run in E Mod or XP, so given time, who knows...

A guy would have to throw class warfare out the window & just have fun.....but you still get a time, then drive it home. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

So true. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Andyrew]

Is nitrous legal?

Just curious about a 50 shot in your case Randal.

If its not legal, you could run it for fun (assuming your engine can take it...) for a couple of runs on and off and see the differences in times to see if you can actually use that extra 50hp/tq.

Just a thought.

[Woody]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blowup.gif)

[jhadler]

No Nitrous. It's considered an Oxygen bearing additive, which is (to my recollection) not allowed.

Plus, why in the wide wide world of sports would you want such a peaky spike of power? That'd be worse than the proverbial mule kick the old 935's gave in mid turn when the pinwheel finally kicked in...

-Josh

[brant]

in road racing at least...

they wouldn't even allow you to be on the track with nitrous...
even if not for points.

it presents a danger for other drivers and especially for corner workers.
similar to consuming alcohol on the track, or running without a fuel cell

(something that could hurt others and violate the insurance for any club)

[scott_in_nh]

No Nitrous. It's considered an Oxygen bearing additive, which is (to my recollection) not allowed.

Plus, why in the wide wide world of sports would you want such a peaky spike of power? That'd be worse than the proverbial mule kick the old 935's gave in mid turn when the pinwheel finally kicked in...

-Josh

I get it that it is not allowed, but if you use a control box with nitrous, it can be as smooth or smoother than any other power adder.

[Andyrew]

No Nitrous. It's considered an Oxygen bearing additive, which is (to my recollection) not allowed.

Plus, why in the wide wide world of sports would you want such a peaky spike of power? That'd be worse than the proverbial mule kick the old 935's gave in mid turn when the pinwheel finally kicked in...

-Josh

My thought was a cheap $500 investment that could easily be recouped in which to determine if that extra 50 hp was really worth it to him regarding lowered lap times.

If it really translated to an improved lap time that was substantial then he could justify the investment for more power.

Never thought of using it permanently, I know its peaky, He could put a tiny stiff spring at the end of the throttle pedal right before the full throttle switch so that he can feel the difference and know when he is going to hit nitrous. 95% throttle on an NA car is pretty much the same as 100%, Therefore he could be coming out of a corner that he knows doesnt need the nitrous and just give it that 95%.


My audi allroad has a similar thing from the factory. 95% throttle and its plenty of power for most of my activities. But when I really really need that something extra I push the pedal down even harder past the first stop and it automatically downshifts to optimum gear and gives me a couple extra PSI for a substantial increase in forward thrust.

[grantsfo]

At least in XP.

A fantasy of mine is to keep my car all Porsche and put in a 993 3.6. While the car would be +/-100 pounds heaver it would have over 300hp (with Varioram) and around 250lbs of torque. It would be a great hill climb car able to compete with the big bore modified cars.

OK, but then what do you do the rest of the year? XP rules would dictate ballasting up to 1997#. Are you kidding me?

So the only way to be competitive in XP is to convert to a Suby or shove in a twin turbo motor, just like everyone else.

Annoying.

Honestly even with 3.6 you would be down on power to fastest cars. Kippermans tube frame car will be completely rebuilt by next season with big V8 Poor little 300 hp 914 wouldn't have a chance against that car. Even my Z will be making 425 hp soon. You have to go either V8 or blown to be top dog in hillclimb. Or go with water cooled 6 from GT3. No doubts your car would be very fast but suspect it wouldn't be as fast as high hp cars at some Hillclimbs. You'd be a fast SPO car for sure. I'm going to SPO next year would be fun to run against you in same class. With Avon race slicks, 2500 lb car and 100 more hp the Z should be pretty quick as long as I keep it on the road! Lol!

I'd not worry about SCCA classing. You do mostly local ax and you'd be plenty fast in E mod with e mod PAX. PCA you'd have TTOD car.

If there any doubts about hp being king of Hillclimbs just look at Rob Bs GT2 setting 2:11 in SSP at Hoopa. The car is a rocketship. Made z06 corvettes look slow!

This post has been edited by grantsfo: Aug 3 2013, 01:20 PM

[Andyrew]

Grant, How is your Z a 2500lb car???