 No power to wipers 1973-SOLVED |
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| HalfMoon |
 Jul 29 2013, 06:19 PM
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#1
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Senior Member  Group: Members Posts: 828 Joined: 13-November 12 From: Shenandoah Junction, WV Member No.: 15,144 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region  |
Hi all,
I just purchased a v-8 converted 914 and inherited a bunch of electrical problems So much for "turn key" and "daily driver" descriptions.... It will be some time before I can get this vehicle to pass our state inspections... The problems (electrical) so far, No power to right side headlight-SOLVED No horn (I don't even see a wire coming up the steering colum) Wipers not working Gas gauge not working Hazard lamps not working Front turn signals not working (Not even installed) Back up lights not working My first post of electrical gremlins (the right side no power to headlights) was solved rather quickly and so I thought I'd post my attacking the next problem, there's no power to any of the 5 wires to the wiper motor when the key is on and the wiper motor switch is activated on the steering colum. I don't see that this is fuse protected but I do see it on the circuit board (56, 91-optional intermittent). I'm guessing that it's not fuse protected. What test can we come up with that will tell us if the wiper is operational and beyond that (if it is) why is the switch not controlling it? Probably the relayor a ground fault I would guess, but first things first, how to test the wiper motor? Thoughts, ideas? Additional information-In another post I found that the relay for the wiper is supposed to be above the fuse panel and accessable by removing the two screws that hold the panel in. I did this but can anyone identify the relays and a test for same? Here's a picture- Also-the PO converted this to a v-8 and in a previous conversation with him about the circuit board, he alluded to the board no longer being useable during the converstion. I'm not sure if I inturperted what was being said....but I can't find a circuit board anywhere. Not being familar with 914's and having to wait for a manul from Amazon, wait for it (the dumb question), where would the circuit board be located? Assitional information-After examining an online diagram of the "relay" board, it appears as if the PO was right and (given that he removed all the heating stuff as it was no longer useable in a v-8 conversion) the relay board was no longer neccessary. That said, it appears as if the wiper motor is fused (and relayed-as it looks like I have the intermittent switch). Still hoping someone can identify the relays from my picture and mebbe have a test for that relay, but...and this is odd, one of the diagrams I've viewed (and I've posted it) indicates one of the five wires coming off the wiper (56) as going to a fuse block (60) with slots 8, 9, 10, 11, 12. That's confusing to me as I'm only aware of the 12 block fuse panel under the steering colum. Is there another one somewhere? Lol, can't wait for Amazon to deliver my 914 book :-( More info-learning curve. After much study I do not believe my wiper system had the intermittent switch and as such I shouldn't/wouldn't expect to see a relay for it. The diagrams indicate a relay is used only with the optional intermittent. Soooo, it appears as if the wiper motor is merely to a switch and it also appears as if it gets it's power from fuse panel position eight. I've tested the fuse and it's good, yet when I have the key on and the wiper switch on, I see no power at position eight on the fuse panel (either side). That's making me think the switch is bad, as I heard these fuse circuits are fused at the end of the circuit. Soooo, any cool ideas for testing the switch? Still might be of value to have a test for the wiper motor itself too. One of em is bad unless I've msitaken where the wiper motor gets it's power from (position eight). Attached thumbnail(s)  
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| HalfMoon |
Jul 30 2013, 04:08 PM
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#2
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 828 Joined: 13-November 12 From: Shenandoah Junction, WV Member No.: 15,144 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Jeez. Will I be left to my own genuis thinking on this? :-(
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| JeffBowlsby |
Jul 30 2013, 04:43 PM
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#3
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914 Wiring Harnesses Group: Members Posts: 8,510 Joined: 7-January 03 From: San Ramon CA Member No.: 104 Region Association: None 
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Patience grasshopper, lets start off with which year 914? They are each a little different electrically.
We will also ask that you keep it simple...you have about 40,0000 different issues listed, take one at a time. You should be able to start sorting out the differences between the factory schematic and your actual wiring on your own. Do you have the intermittent relay or not? The switch on the steering column does not priovide the intermittent function. I would start with checking to see if you have all wiper motor wires in the right locations and verifying that there are no other wiring issues related to that wiring like cuts, corroded terminals, melted wires etc. |
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| HalfMoon |
Jul 30 2013, 06:14 PM
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#4
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 828 Joined: 13-November 12 From: Shenandoah Junction, WV Member No.: 15,144 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
 QUOTE(Jeff Bowlsby @ Jul 30 2013, 06:43 PM)  Patience grasshopper, lets start off with which year 914? They are each a little different electrically. We will also ask that you keep it simple...you have about 40,0000 different issues listed, take one at a time. You should be able to start sorting out the differences between the factory schematic and your actual wiring. Do you have the intermittent realy or not? The switch on the stwerring column does not priovide the intermittent function. I would start with checking to see if you have all wiper motor wirs in teh right locations and verifying that there are no other wiring issues related to that wirig like cuts, corroded terminals, melted wires etc. Hi'ya Jeff! So, not only do I have the LE but I bought a 1973 Darkside a few weeks ago also. Rains it pours, right? Agreed! Many issues and best taken one at a time. Got the headlights solved and tomorrow I'll wire up the motors. Hopefully they'll operate! But in the meantime, I'm attacking the non-working wipers... I visually examined what I could of the wires and saw nothing obvious and I looked at the connections at the wiper and checked they were attached where they are supposed to be attached (see pix). I do see what looks like a relay socket close to the wiper motor (see pic) but the stalk only has two positions so the tab is intact. Is fuse position 8 supposed to be hot with the key on or is it supposed to be hot with the key on and the wipers switched on? Attached thumbnail(s) 
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| JeffBowlsby |
Jul 30 2013, 06:33 PM
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#5
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914 Wiring Harnesses Group: Members Posts: 8,510 Joined: 7-January 03 From: San Ramon CA Member No.: 104 Region Association: None
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Whats your real name moon-man? I like knowing who I am talking to.
Thats not an intermittent relay base, it looks like the fresh air fan connector. More later. |
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| HalfMoon |
Jul 30 2013, 06:43 PM
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#6
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 828 Joined: 13-November 12 From: Shenandoah Junction, WV Member No.: 15,144 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
QUOTE(Jeff Bowlsby @ Jul 30 2013, 08:33 PM) Whats your real name moon-man? I like knowing who I am talking to. Thats not an intermittent relay base, it looks like the fresh air fan connector. More later. My bad! Let me introduce myself...David Appell Pretty sure it didn't/doesn/t have the intermittent option. Stalk is a two position and I didn't see a relay where I thought I would see one (like on my LE, which does have it). While I am somewhat disappointed the level of electrical problems I've inherited, I must say, it is an exciting project. A little more than what I had hoped/planed on....but exciting none the less. Tomorrow I'll also put on the Roh wheels and tires I have around and a set of Recaro's. I'll be stoked if the hideaway motors operate without fail after I wire them tomorrow as well :-) Hopefully I can get this on the road over the next few weeks and sort out any other problems. Not exactly sure if I'll be keeping this one. If I do, I think it probably needs a fairly major work over and that would take away from the LE :-( Like I said, not exactly what I'd planned on. Btw, still waiting on papaerwork the LE :-/ |
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| barefoot |
Jul 31 2013, 12:43 PM
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#7
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,274 Joined: 19-March 13 From: Charleston SC Member No.: 15,673 Region Association: South East States
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That 4 pin female thingy is for the fuel tank level sender
Whoops , my bad, if it's 4 terminals, it's for the fresh air blower, If only 3 terminals, it's the fuel level sender. Sorry, Barefoot |
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| TheCabinetmaker |
Jul 31 2013, 12:49 PM
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#8
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I drive my car everyday Group: Members Posts: 8,300 Joined: 8-May 03 From: Tulsa, Ok. Member No.: 666 |
QUOTE(barefoot @ Jul 31 2013, 01:43 PM) That 4 pin female thingy is for the fuel tank level sender (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) And that is why we ask for pics (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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| JeffBowlsby |
Jul 31 2013, 12:55 PM
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#9
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914 Wiring Harnesses Group: Members Posts: 8,510 Joined: 7-January 03 From: San Ramon CA Member No.: 104 Region Association: None
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QUOTE(Jeff Bowlsby @ Jul 30 2013, 05:33 PM) Thats not an intermittent relay base, it looks like the fresh air fan connector. Beg to differ boyz...the fuel level sender is Green-Brown-Black wires... That thaar is the FA fan connector. Same connector type, different wiring. |
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| TheCabinetmaker |
Jul 31 2013, 12:58 PM
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#10
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I drive my car everyday Group: Members Posts: 8,300 Joined: 8-May 03 From: Tulsa, Ok. Member No.: 666 |
Ha. guess I better look a little closer and engauge my brain before talking.
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| bulitt |
Jul 31 2013, 01:34 PM
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#11
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Achtzylinder Group: Members Posts: 4,188 Joined: 2-October 11 Member No.: 13,632 Region Association: South East States |
Is the Brown ground connected to the wiper body? Cant see from pic.
Gonna throw up a bunch of pics for you while Jeff is walking you through things. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-1348-1344999768_thumb.jpg) Wiper switch thread Wiper (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-104-1283378183_thumb.jpg) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i16.photobucket.com-9478-1274060481.3.jpg) |
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| HalfMoon |
Jul 31 2013, 02:25 PM
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#12
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 828 Joined: 13-November 12 From: Shenandoah Junction, WV Member No.: 15,144 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
 Lol, I'm color blind but I think you mean this wire?Yes it's grounded to the body of the wiper motor :-) Thanks for the images. The relay board images while cool for my files I don't need as the relay/circuit and all the associated relay's for that board have been ommittted as this is a V-8 conversion that evidently didn't require any of those circuits/relays. The image of the wiper motor and relay's was VERY interesting though! Can I assume that two relays are used when the intermittent option is in use but only one relay is used for the standard two position switch? If so, where is that relay located? Back of the fuse box perchance? Which one...lol Thanks :-) D Addedum, opps. My mistake. Only one relay is in the picture. IS it used without the intermittent option? |
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| HalfMoon |
Jul 31 2013, 02:27 PM
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#13
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 828 Joined: 13-November 12 From: Shenandoah Junction, WV Member No.: 15,144 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Very cool wiper switch thread too :-)
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| barefoot |
Jul 31 2013, 03:15 PM
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#14
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,274 Joined: 19-March 13 From: Charleston SC Member No.: 15,673 Region Association: South East States
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QUOTE(HalfMoon @ Jul 31 2013, 04:25 PM) Lol, I'm color blind but I think you mean this wire?Yes it's grounded to the body of the wiper motor :-) Thanks for the images. The relay board images while cool for my files I don't need as the relay/circuit and all the associated relay's for that board have been ommittted as this is a V-8 conversion that evidently didn't require any of those circuits/relays. The image of the wiper motor and relay's was VERY interesting though! Can I assume that two relays are used when the intermittent option is in use but only one relay is used for the standard two position switch? If so, where is that relay located? Back of the fuse box perchance? Which one...lol Thanks :-) D Addedum, opps. My mistake. Only one relay is in the picture. IS it used without the intermittent option? |
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| HalfMoon |
Jul 31 2013, 03:20 PM
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#15
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 828 Joined: 13-November 12 From: Shenandoah Junction, WV Member No.: 15,144 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
What year is that wiper motor ? My 76 does not have those two extra wires.
Are they for the intermittent function ??? It's a 73 motor as far as I know and I'm pretty sure this car does NOT have intermittent. Jeff says that the wiring changed from year to year so I'm not suprised your 76 is different. |
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| bulitt |
Jul 31 2013, 03:22 PM
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#16
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Achtzylinder Group: Members Posts: 4,188 Joined: 2-October 11 Member No.: 13,632 Region Association: South East States |
The brown wire on the right of the photo
is attached correct? Make sure your grounds are all attached and have good contact. Especially the ones under the dash, on the drivers side, under the fuse box. Here is Jeffs guide to grounds (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-104-1338047531_thumb.jpg) |
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| HalfMoon |
Jul 31 2013, 06:22 PM
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#17
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 828 Joined: 13-November 12 From: Shenandoah Junction, WV Member No.: 15,144 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
QUOTE(bulitt @ Jul 31 2013, 05:22 PM) The brown wire on the right of the photo is attached correct? Opps. I guess I didn't make it clear. I'm actually (really, no kidding) color blind. Which is why I enclosed a picture with the wire in question circled. I've enclosed another image with a different wire circled. Is this the wire (brown) that you were referring too? Sorry for the confusion. Real color blindness can make wiring a VERY interesting challenge Addedum-I checked and it runs through the harness so I'm assuming it's connected (the brown wire) but I'm assuming they're all connected lol! I suppose that (unraveling and checking) is or might be one of the next steps but I'd love to avoid it... I think it's the switch but that's not based in any evidence (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) Attached image(s) 
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| ripper911 |
Aug 1 2013, 07:30 AM
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#18
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corde pulsum tangite Group: Members Posts: 2,920 Joined: 25-April 10 From: Powder Springs, GA Member No.: 11,654 Region Association: South East States |
FWIW I tracked my non-functional wipers down to a bad switch using the procedure in the tech tips 700 book. I now have a toggle switch under the dash for windshield wiping purposes.
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| HalfMoon |
Aug 1 2013, 07:59 AM
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#19
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 828 Joined: 13-November 12 From: Shenandoah Junction, WV Member No.: 15,144 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
QUOTE(ripper911 @ Aug 1 2013, 09:30 AM) FWIW I tracked my non-functional wipers down to a bad switch using the procedure in the tech tips 700 book. I now have a toggle switch under the dash for windshield wiping purposes. Cool! WHere is this "Tech Tips 700" book located and where can I get a copy? Or is this some resource online? If so, do you have the link? Thanks! |
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| ripper911 |
Aug 1 2013, 08:03 AM
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#20
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corde pulsum tangite Group: Members Posts: 2,920 Joined: 25-April 10 From: Powder Springs, GA Member No.: 11,654 Region Association: South East States |
QUOTE(HalfMoon @ Aug 1 2013, 09:59 AM) QUOTE(ripper911 @ Aug 1 2013, 09:30 AM) FWIW I tracked my non-functional wipers down to a bad switch using the procedure in the tech tips 700 book. I now have a toggle switch under the dash for windshield wiping purposes. Cool! WHere is this "Tech Tips 700" book located and where can I get a copy? Or is this some resource online? If so, do you have the link? Thanks! It is located in Marietta, GA. from AutoAtlanta. It is a very useful book for 914 owners IMO. |
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