914-6 value when not original Options

[siverson]

A hypothetical question:

Suppose their is a really nice, original 914-6 with original paint, no modifications, matching numbers, and 100k miles that has a market value of $50,000. Not 100% perfect/concours, but a really, really nice car.

What's the value of that same car with just these differences:

1. Same car but repainted (factory color) to like new and better than factory condition? I'd say $50,000 - no change. Even nicer car, but not original, so it's a wash.

2. Same car but repainted a different color to like new and better than factory condition. I'd say $45,000. Nice paint and full color change, and even nicer car, but just doesn't match the COA.

3. Same car but repainted a different color after a major front end accident. Expertly repaired and it great condition, but non original welds/fenders/etc. I'd say $35,000.

4. Same car but with a non-original stock 2.0 motor, but not matching numbers. I'd say $40,000.

5. Same car but with a later 3.0 motor, and obviously not matching numbers. Otherwise stock. I'd say $42,500.

6. Same car, but it has 2,000 original miles instead of 100,000 (probably doesn't exist). I'd say probably a $100,000 car.

Your thoughts? Am I off?

-Steve

[mepstein]

Interesting...

I'm sure I'll be told I'm crazy but I predict a major price drop for 6's nice 4's and other high end early porsches in just a couple years. I think the faster the price increases, the closer we are to a big drop.

Can only go up? We heard the same thing about the real estate market, tech stock, gold, ect. Nothing can only go up except taxes.

Fireproof underwear at the ready. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[SLITS]

It's whatever you want it to be and the price you would pay.

[SirAndy]

Am I off?

I think so ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)


It seems that the more you go away from all original, the less your car is worth, even if the things you did to it are an improvement, like a bigger engine etc.

Nobody here would argue that a nice 3.2L is an improvement over the stock 2.0L /6, yet a numbers matching 2.0L will always fetch more than the same car with a 3.2L transplant.

I think any modified /6, even a really nice one, will have a hard time fetching over $30k ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[brant]

I think your off. Any repaint will never be worth the first car you describe with very good original paint. You only have good original paint once.

I think a color change kills the value even further. Not 5k, more like 10 or 12k

As a driver the big motor is fun. But As a top of the value chart car. It's got to have the original 2.0 in it to be a collectors piece that appreciates the most it can.

[toolguy]

A real 6 has to be as manufactured to be worth the big bucks, this means every item, no matter how small, down to the OE seat belt labels. . . . . put on flairs and it is just another modified car. . same with an engine change. It's just a nice driver car. worth about what a nice conversion is worth. . That being said, the original parts needed to make an accurate six is worth something as the OE parts just are not available any more, so a modified real six does have a certain level of value. .
From my observations, a real six, modified, should be in the 35 -40 range but that is in absolutely perfect condition top bottom inside and out. . an all original six, in driven condition, but otherwise perfect are in the 50 -60 range . .

And I don't think they will lose value, maybe not rise as fast, but that is depending on the global economy. And as long as the Mark has more value than the Dollar, there will always be European buyers. . .
I keep saying, these are the 356's of todays world. . in a few years 100K for an OE six will seem like a good deal.

[rhodyguy]

brant nailed it except i would hit the color change even steeper. even if i had it to burn i wouldn't pay 50k for a 914. 4 or 6.

[Tom_T]

Steve,

When I was considering restoring my 73 to a Marathon or Alaska Blue Metallic which colors I LOVE - instead of it's factory L80E Light Ivory - I did an informal survey in `09-10 of otherwise original/restored but color changed `73-74 914-2.0's & found that the values/asking/selling prices for the non-original repaints were 30-60% less than the similar 914-2.0's kept in original color.

So I'd agree with the others above that the resprayed to another color -6 would be a similar drop - if not more at the higher end of 50-60+%.

Similarly & in line with the others - anything non-reversible on a low volume survivor 914-6 or anything else, will substantially lower its value - probably more than your thinking above.

IMHO - if somebody wants to make a fun 3.2, GT Tribute, or whatever - then pick a lowly 1.7 or 1.8 that needs the work anyway, and modify or resto-mod that, and keep the 914-6's original and collectible.

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) .... hypothetically of course! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Tom
///////

[Kaeferfreund]

Interestinfg discussion about the value.

I agree to some of the guys here. Any difference to the original condition of the car lowers the value. If there are no matching numbers-parts, you will get a problem. No traceable history? That's bad. Wrong color....wrong engine...wrongs parts used in a restoration...all that let the value decline.

The collectors who are paying so much for a car like your mentioned 50-60k USD Range are looking for a car in top condition with no missing parts and an exact history. What about manuals, tool kits and so on....

So from our side there is also another important fact....the US-restorations -just only a repaint- often have not the best reputation. I know that's not correct because there are good restoration workers for sure. But the widely shared meaning is, you would better buy an unrestored car than an restored car in the US.

Thanks all these crucial TV-pimpers (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Rust? No problem, give the car a new paint (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) We call it "Verkaufslackierung" ...a low quality paint to sell the car better.

[mepstein]

Interestinfg discussion about the value.

I agree to some of the guys here. Any difference to the original condition of the car lowers the value. If there are no matching numbers-parts, you will get a problem. No traceable history? That's bad. Wrong color....wrong engine...wrongs parts used in a restoration...all that let the value decline.

The collectors who are paying so much for a car like your mentioned 50-60k USD Range are looking for a car in top condition with no missing parts and an exact history. What about manuals, tool kits and so on....

So from our side there is also another important fact....the US-restorations -just only a repaint- often have not the best reputation. I know that's not correct because there are good restoration workers for sure. But the widely shared meaning is, you would better buy an unrestored car than an restored car in the US.

Thanks all these crucial TV-pimpers (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Rust? No problem, give the car a new paint (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) We call it "Verkaufslackierung" ...a low quality paint to sell the car better.

I'm not surprised we have a reputation. I love the word for it. Need it on a t-shirt (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[carr914]

A hypothetical question:

Suppose their is a really nice, original 914-6 with original paint, no modifications, matching numbers, and 100k miles that has a market value of $50,000. Not 100% perfect/concours, but a really, really nice car.

What's the value of that same car with just these differences:

1. Same car but repainted (factory color) to like new and better than factory condition? I'd say $50,000 - no change. Even nicer car, but not original, so it's a wash.

I'd say slightly lower as you only get Original Paint once to the "Right Buyer"

2. Same car but repainted a different color to like new and better than factory condition. I'd say $45,000. Nice paint and full color change, and even nicer car, but just doesn't match the COA.

Color Change would count more than a $5k cut

3. Same car but repainted a different color after a major front end accident. Expertly repaired and it great condition, but non original welds/fenders/etc. I'd say $35,000.

IMHO, in the same Price Range as Option #2

4. Same car but with a non-original stock 2.0 motor, but not matching numbers. I'd say $40,000.

I Concur

5. Same car but with a later 3.0 motor, and obviously not matching numbers. Otherwise stock. I'd say $42,500.

IMHO - same Price as Option #4
6. Same car, but it has 2,000 original miles instead of 100,000 (probably doesn't exist). I'd say probably a $100,000 car.

Not yet, maybe more like $75k

Your thoughts? Am I off?

-Steve

Interesting...

I'm sure I'll be told I'm crazy but I predict a major price drop for 6's nice 4's and other high end early porsches in just a couple years. I think the faster the price increases, the closer we are to a big drop.

Can only go up? We heard the same thing about the real estate market, tech stock, gold, ect. Nothing can only go up except taxes.

Fireproof underwear at the ready. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I Agree (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

. in a few years 100K for an OE six will seem like a good deal.

I don't think so!

When I was considering restoring my 73 to a Marathon or Alaska Blue Metallic which colors I LOVE - instead of it's factory L80E Light Ivory - I did an informal survey in `09-10 of otherwise original/restored but color changed `73-74 914-2.0's & found that the values/asking/selling prices for the non-original repaints were 30-60% less than the similar 914-2.0's kept in original color.

So I'd agree with the others above that the resprayed to another color -6 would be a similar drop - if not more at the higher end of 50-60+%.

I don't agree - Color can always be changed down the road - if you could pick up Option #2 for $22k, people would be all over it, you could enjoy it as is for 10 Years, sell it for a Profit or Re-Paint

Similarly & in line with the others - anything non-reversible on a low volume survivor 914-6 or anything else, will substantially lower its value - probably more than your thinking above.

In Most Cases, Yes - but there are exceptions

IMHO - if somebody wants to make a fun 3.2, GT Tribute, or whatever - then pick a lowly 1.7 or 1.8 that needs the work anyway, and modify or resto-mod that, and keep the 914-6's original and collectible.

Again I disagree a little. It depends on the Condition of the car at the beginning & amount of effort put into it. Erc's car or the one I had deserve to be the way they are. But if you are into the Play Mode, modify a 4 Cylinder (especially those Butt-Ugly 74 Can-Am editions (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif))

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Montreal914]

Original gets the most value.
That is what real collectors are looking for.
Repaint drops the value, wrong color big time.
Engine, put the 3.2 in a 4, keep the 6 the way it was delivered.
Matching numbers is key.

[ripper911]

This car just sold for 45K1971 914-6

Mostly original, but a couple of things done to it.

[Kaeferfreund]

Really a nice car, that silver one. But it has a major drawback. It has some light damages, hard to see, but they are there....and the engine got a small upgrade (2,2 ltr.). The price seems to be a little bit high but it was a fair offer.

[siverson]

This was interesting commentary on that silver six:

> Remember above all though that it is a 1971 model and hence very very rare among the six production. It is easily worth ten thousand more in today's market over a like 1970 model.

?!?!

-Steve

[Steve Snyder]

I think your off. Any repaint will never be worth the first car you describe with very good original paint. You only have good original paint once.

I think a color change kills the value even further. Not 5k, more like 10 or 12k

As a driver the big motor is fun. But As a top of the value chart car. It's got to have the original 2.0 in it to be a collectors piece that appreciates the most it can.

I agree with all those that have stated that any change from the original build sheet substantially lowers value, because the people paying the top bucks for original /6 cars have no intention of driving them. They are looking for investments and/or trophies.

Like the OP, the only thing I am on the fence about is the original paint v. respray (in the same color). The /6 described above (and 99% of all others) would have less than perfect paint. so a respray might not be frowned upon. After all, people still pay a premium for repainted LEs, and for those, the original paint job is the primary differentiator from any other high-optioned early-mid '74 2.0L.

[saigon71]

Can only go up? We heard the same thing about the real estate market, tech stock, gold, ect. Nothing can only go up except taxes.

Ah yes, the tech stock market bubble of the early 2000's. I remember it well. Worked for a tech firm (now bankrupt) and thought it would be a good idea to "double down" with call options on tech stocks the week the market collapsed. Good game.

I hope our car values don't drop THAT fast. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[brant]

This was interesting commentary on that silver six:

> Remember above all though that it is a 1971 model and hence very very rare among the six production. It is easily worth ten thousand more in today's market over a like 1970 model.

?!?!

-Steve

I'm not sure that a 1971 or 1972 would bring any premium for me over a 1970
the condition would be far more important than the year

all of them are factory 914/6's and I would think an investor was really just looking for a real car in real good condition

[6freak]

did 71 have side shift trans??? IMO It fenched some good coin for the shape it was in ...and that makes me very happy

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[0396]

Paint and chassis / body can only be OEM once. Like others have said, once it's out of that OEM condition, $ should be reduced by an significant number.