A hypothetical question:

Suppose their is a really nice, original 914-6 with original paint, no modifications, matching numbers, and 100k miles that has a market value of $50,000. Not 100% perfect/concours, but a really, really nice car.

What's the value of that same car with just these differences:

1. Same car but repainted (factory color) to like new and better than factory condition? I'd say $50,000 - no change. Even nicer car, but not original, so it's a wash.

2. Same car but repainted a different color to like new and better than factory condition. I'd say $45,000. Nice paint and full color change, and even nicer car, but just doesn't match the COA.

3. Same car but repainted a different color after a major front end accident. Expertly repaired and it great condition, but non original welds/fenders/etc. I'd say $35,000.

4. Same car but with a non-original stock 2.0 motor, but not matching numbers. I'd say $40,000.

5. Same car but with a later 3.0 motor, and obviously not matching numbers. Otherwise stock. I'd say $42,500.

6. Same car, but it has 2,000 original miles instead of 100,000 (probably doesn't exist). I'd say probably a $100,000 car.

Your thoughts? Am I off?

-Steve

Interesting...

I'm sure I'll be told I'm crazy but I predict a major price drop for 6's nice 4's and other high end early porsches in just a couple years. I think the faster the price increases, the closer we are to a big drop.

Can only go up? We heard the same thing about the real estate market, tech stock, gold, ect. Nothing can only go up except taxes.

Fireproof underwear at the ready.

It's whatever you want it to be and the price you would pay.

I think so ...


It seems that the more you go away from all original, the less your car is worth, even if the things you did to it are an improvement, like a bigger engine etc.

Nobody here would argue that a nice 3.2L is an improvement over the stock 2.0L /6, yet a numbers matching 2.0L will always fetch more than the same car with a 3.2L transplant.

I think any modified /6, even a really nice one, will have a hard time fetching over $30k ...

I think your off. Any repaint will never be worth the first car you describe with very good original paint. You only have good original paint once.

I think a color change kills the value even further. Not 5k, more like 10 or 12k

As a driver the big motor is fun. But As a top of the value chart car. It's got to have the original 2.0 in it to be a collectors piece that appreciates the most it can.

A real 6 has to be as manufactured to be worth the big bucks, this means every item, no matter how small, down to the OE seat belt labels. . . . . put on flairs and it is just another modified car. . same with an engine change. It's just a nice driver car. worth about what a nice conversion is worth. . That being said, the original parts needed to make an accurate six is worth something as the OE parts just are not available any more, so a modified real six does have a certain level of value. .
From my observations, a real six, modified, should be in the 35 -40 range but that is in absolutely perfect condition top bottom inside and out. . an all original six, in driven condition, but otherwise perfect are in the 50 -60 range . .

And I don't think they will lose value, maybe not rise as fast, but that is depending on the global economy. And as long as the Mark has more value than the Dollar, there will always be European buyers. . .
I keep saying, these are the 356's of todays world. . in a few years 100K for an OE six will seem like a good deal.

brant nailed it except i would hit the color change even steeper. even if i had it to burn i wouldn't pay 50k for a 914. 4 or 6.

Steve,

When I was considering restoring my 73 to a Marathon or Alaska Blue Metallic which colors I LOVE - instead of it's factory L80E Light Ivory - I did an informal survey in `09-10 of otherwise original/restored but color changed `73-74 914-2.0's & found that the values/asking/selling prices for the non-original repaints were 30-60% less than the similar 914-2.0's kept in original color.

So I'd agree with the others above that the resprayed to another color -6 would be a similar drop - if not more at the higher end of 50-60+%.

Similarly & in line with the others - anything non-reversible on a low volume survivor 914-6 or anything else, will substantially lower its value - probably more than your thinking above.

IMHO - if somebody wants to make a fun 3.2, GT Tribute, or whatever - then pick a lowly 1.7 or 1.8 that needs the work anyway, and modify or resto-mod that, and keep the 914-6's original and collectible.

Cheers! .... hypothetically of course!
Tom
///////

Interestinfg discussion about the value.

I agree to some of the guys here. Any difference to the original condition of the car lowers the value. If there are no matching numbers-parts, you will get a problem. No traceable history? That's bad. Wrong color....wrong engine...wrongs parts used in a restoration...all that let the value decline.

The collectors who are paying so much for a car like your mentioned 50-60k USD Range are looking for a car in top condition with no missing parts and an exact history. What about manuals, tool kits and so on....

So from our side there is also another important fact....the US-restorations -just only a repaint- often have not the best reputation. I know that's not correct because there are good restoration workers for sure. But the widely shared meaning is, you would better buy an unrestored car than an restored car in the US.

Thanks all these crucial TV-pimpers Rust? No problem, give the car a new paint We call it "Verkaufslackierung" ...a low quality paint to sell the car better.

I'm not surprised we have a reputation. I love the word for it. Need it on a t-shirt

I Agree





I don't think so!

Original gets the most value.
That is what real collectors are looking for.
Repaint drops the value, wrong color big time.
Engine, put the 3.2 in a 4, keep the 6 the way it was delivered.
Matching numbers is key.

This car just sold for 45K1971 914-6

Mostly original, but a couple of things done to it.

Really a nice car, that silver one. But it has a major drawback. It has some light damages, hard to see, but they are there....and the engine got a small upgrade (2,2 ltr.). The price seems to be a little bit high but it was a fair offer.

This was interesting commentary on that silver six:

> Remember above all though that it is a 1971 model and hence very very rare among the six production. It is easily worth ten thousand more in today's market over a like 1970 model.

?!?!

-Steve

I agree with all those that have stated that any change from the original build sheet substantially lowers value, because the people paying the top bucks for original /6 cars have no intention of driving them. They are looking for investments and/or trophies.

Like the OP, the only thing I am on the fence about is the original paint v. respray (in the same color). The /6 described above (and 99% of all others) would have less than perfect paint. so a respray might not be frowned upon. After all, people still pay a premium for repainted LEs, and for those, the original paint job is the primary differentiator from any other high-optioned early-mid '74 2.0L.

Ah yes, the tech stock market bubble of the early 2000's. I remember it well. Worked for a tech firm (now bankrupt) and thought it would be a good idea to "double down" with call options on tech stocks the week the market collapsed. Good game.

I hope our car values don't drop THAT fast.

I'm not sure that a 1971 or 1972 would bring any premium for me over a 1970
the condition would be far more important than the year

all of them are factory 914/6's and I would think an investor was really just looking for a real car in real good condition

did 71 have side shift trans??? IMO It fenched some good coin for the shape it was in ...and that makes me very happy

Paint and chassis / body can only be OEM once. Like others have said, once it's out of that OEM condition, $ should be reduced by an significant number.

No, as 71 still had the tail shift .

It's a car, not an investment instrument. It was designed and created to be a means of transportation, albeit a fun one, and nothing more. As has been proven in the past, using a motor vehicle as an investment carries more than its share of risk. IMO, counting on a car to make you a big ROI is akin to buying lottery tickets in the guise of financial planning.

You shoulda seen the concours weenies cringe when my old boss, The Chief, put roll-up windows and T-tops in his 904 (an original 6!). To make things worse, he cut the fuel tank in half to make room for a suitcase ..........................

Oh, BTW, 914/6s were sitting on the docks with the tires rotting; they couldn't give 'em away!

The Cap'n

> I think any modified /6, even a really nice one, will have a hard time fetching over $30k ...

This one is at $35k now and reserve not met...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1972-Porsch...=item2c71bb6ce7

>> in a few years 100K for an OE six will seem like a good deal.
> I don't think so!

I think so. Or at least $100k will be "market rate" in 10 years - and probably won't seem like a good deal, it's just what you'll have to pay.

-Steve

And it's not even a real six. Awfully nice looking conversion though.

bin @ 55k. only 2 bids at this time. ac with all the bonus holes and gapping sinkhole in the front trunk - - -. i'd like to see detailed photos of the rest of the ac install running down the pass side of the car.

And not yet sold either ...

How about a slight variation of the query.

Matching number 6....but engine stretched to 2.2....?

I ask....because I have considered...engine is awaiting a rebuild....while the rest of the car waits re-assembly.... ....and waits... ...and waits....

Put the Original on a shelf and install that 2.7 RS Motor I sold you, you Wanker!

I don't think a 2.7 rs spec could ever hurt value ...just wish my 2.7 wasn't 1977 spec.

A car is only original once. At 40+ years old, a truly original 914/6 is rare. Original paint, carpet, motor etc. Heck, maybe even an original spare. Complete original toolkit. Maintenance books with stamps? To the collector, its not just the car, but its documentation that are vital.

There are many exotic collectors who now look back at the cars they've "restored" and cringe. All the patina is gone. Restored beyond factory tolerances and standards.

If a six was modded over the years, big deal. As Capn said, these cars sat unsold for long time. Heck, my dad's six sat on the dealer lot for 8 months before he bought it in August '70.

Just like longhoods, these cars languished by the 1980s because heck, a 2.0l 110hp motor? thats not fun. Small brakes? no thanks. Drop in a 2.7 or 3.0 and some flares and have a blast. And THOSE cars are great fun. But because of their trajectory, finding an original, unmolested example is a bit harder.

Will the bubble pop soon, perhaps. Are the folks who wanted one in highschool now no longer interested in them? perhaps. Same happened with the 356 bubble in the 1990s... it popped and then wham, came back with a vengence, but maybe this one won't.

As a speculator, you can hope that the rising value of longhoods will raise all ships.. but just because a car is "rare" doesn't always make it "valuable".

I can't find that 2.7RS motor...I think it's under a pile of parts from Erc and Mikey

If I was in the market for a real 6? It would depend if I planned to drive it or collect it?
If I was to collect one, I would buy as low mileage and close to exact original as it rolled out of the factory. No resprays thank you and I would expect to pay top dollar for one. What that price actually is seems to change with each car that comes on the market.
Would I buy one and restore it? You bet! I would also try and keep it as close to the COA as possible. If you didn't have the original motor then one close to it would be acceptable. Then I would probably allow modifications to go beyond the stock 110HP.
356's that are not original but restored still bring a high dollar.
If I was going to drive and have fun with it? Then I would be less picky in the one I chose. Numbers matching wouldn't be as important. And I sure as hell wouldn't pay big dollars for one. Before I would do that I would be more likely to buy a 4 cylinder car and trick it out the way I want to. I would have more fun building it and acquiring the parts. Chances are I would have more money wrapped up in it than it is worth but it is something that is yours and suits no one other than you! Exactly what I am currently doing with my past S.C.R.O.T nominee

Hey, a quick question on the above Silver 6.
If the VIN is: 9141430034
Engine : 6414025
SHould the engine number be 6414034?

Does this make this car NON number matching? Or this is considered to be matching?

> Should the engine number be 6414034?

Why do you say that? I'm just learning more about the details of original -6s now, but that # seems fine to me...

http://www.p914.com/p914_vin.htm
901.38 641 4001-5163

-Steve

No. They're usually close, but not necessarily the same ...

Thank you SirAndy!
Steve; when i hear numbers matching; i immediately thought its "matched". Hence my question.

Another question :
So when you get a COA (Certificate of Authenticity) from Porsche; the engine number on the COA would be the ultimate answer to the correct engine number? Am i correct?

I agree with "brant" and "Kaeferfreund" The best price, mostly paid by collectors,
is accessible only with a 100% stock car, matching numbers and original paint.

If the car is new painted, it must be done in a high quality standard, on a totally striped car and must be documented. Rust treatment, welding repair, paint layers etc.

The other thing is, you build your own 914. It depends on your own qualitiy
standard and how many time and bugs you want to spend.

Many rebuild threats here in the forum illustrate this.

I swear I'm gonna do it!
Don't anybody try and stop me!

Chris, i can hear you hammering late in the night.