#770 (912E) Project thread *Tangerine Cooling System installed!) Options

[Maltese Falcon]

Try
S+B Filters
Ontario, California.
They make/stock many shapes + sizes, all with high flow washable cotton filter material.
Keep your base and tops, just drop your dimension in the filter height.
Marty

[saigon71]

It's coming together nicely Steve! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

You will be (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) very soon.

[euro911]

Intake manifolds come in different widths too. See if you can find a set of them.

It looks like an inch on each side just might do the trick (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[maf914]

There are some shorter dual throat Webber manifolds out there, but I am not sure who may have them today. The CB style now seem to be the standard for type 4 applications. I bought a pair of short manifolds from PMO many years ago, when they used to advertise 914 Type 4 Webber carb kits in the PCA Panorama magazine. I don't know if PMO still deals with Type 4 carbs, but if you want to try a shorter manifold you might contact them and ask if the short manifolds are still available or who made them.

[rhodyguy]

what are those 6"+/- tall filters?

[Bulldog9]

what are those 6"+/- tall filters?

I got them from Chris at Tangerine Racing.

[euro911]

I'll keep my eyes open for any spare manifolds while I'm packing up my shop, but I think I may have already sold off all of them.

A few years ago I bought an engine with intakes and carbs, but no throttle crossbar. I had a spare crossbar but it was too short - by at least 2 inches. I installed a narrower set of manifolds and all was well. I don't know who made either set of manifolds, they didn't have any brand markings (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

You might give George at European Motor Works (EMW) a call to explain your dilemma and see what's available. A lot of the parts that retail shops sell come from EMW (310 644-8038)

[ChrisFoley]

There are shorter manifolds. I've also seen ones which go up straighter so the filters would be closer to the engine centerline.
The ones I usually work with are what Pierce Manifolds sells.

I can get ITG filters 1 1/2 inches shorter.

The fuel inlet interfering with the air cleaner mounting plate is something I haven't seen. Your inlets are different. A spacer plate would solve that.

[ChrisFoley]

what are those 6"+/- tall filters?

They're 100mm.

[Bulldog9]

There are shorter manifolds. I've also seen ones which go up straighter so the filters would be closer to the engine centerline.
The ones I usually work with are what Pierce Manifolds sells.

I can get ITG filters 1 1/2 inches shorter.

The fuel inlet interfering with the air cleaner mounting plate is something I haven't seen. Your inlets are different. A spacer plate would solve that.

Thanks Chris, that should work, but hold off a bit. I will measure tomorrow to make sure that will be enough. I just looked at the Pierce Manifold site, does anyone know the height/spacing of those manifolds? I got these manifolds with the Carbs. Ah the joy of customizing........

[maf914]

I was recently browsing Aircooledtechguy's build thread and came across these photos of his shortening a pair of manifolds. This build thread is full of great tech ideas and procedures. Thanks for sharing Nate.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...0739&st=200

[ChrisFoley]

I shortened a set of PMO manifolds for my race car.

[Bulldog9]

sheet summa a beech................... I diddnt know the windshield wipers are reversed on this car.................. yeah, bolted them up today, had them pulled up turned on to test and promptly gouged the paint.............. I think I scared my neighbors with my NY inspired flood of language................ Pissed beyond words.........

I also finalized my aux fan system. Pushes about as much air as the stock system. Began sorting out the rear fuse box and wiring harness as well as did a wiring harness and ran wires for the new sensors (CHT, Oil Pressure, AAFM) and the starter relay.

Turns out the little black relays aren't working, they click, but don't send power out. Is this a common type of failure?

On another note, the Headlight switch also freaked out today, suddenly out of the blue, the dimmer for the dash lights turns the headlights on and off.... lol. The only thing that I did was install the gauges, not sure if that would cause a circuit to loop back and cause this. Will recheck tomorrow. OY

[Dave_Darling]

Turns out the little black relays aren't working, they click, but don't send power out. Is this a common type of failure?

Not really.

You can test them with a battery and a multimeter. Check for continuity between pins 30 and 87a when no power is connected to the other pins. You should have it. Then apply +12V to pin 85 and ground to pin 86. There should no longer be continuity between 30 and 87a; instead it should be between 30 and 87. (You can swap power and ground between 85 and 86 and get the same result.)

If either one of those fails, then the relay really is borked. You can often pop the plastic cap off the base to look at the insides--it is just an electromagnet and a switch. When current flows between 85 and 86, the magnet pulls the switch so it bridges from 30 to 87, when the current isn't flowing between 85 and 86, there's a spring that pulls the contact form 30 over to 87a.

--DD

[zambezi]

Sorry about the paint. This very reason is why I test out the wipers on cars I restore by using a "flag" of tape wrapped around the shaft before mounting the arms and blades. By doing this I can test the speeds and park position without running them dry on the windshield and it also prevents the problem you have.

[Bulldog9]

Thanks Dave, I confirmed that the relay is good, as is the power circuit to activate the relay. The issue is no power at 30, so I need to track that down. So far it is the only circuit with no power. There is also no power at the fuse, so I need to pull the panel off and look, but want to check wiring from the front, not sure if this is a direct to the battery of front fuse box.

** Edit, figured it out, the power feed to the rear fan comes from a wire connected to the alternator. I went out, connected all the wires under the car, alternator, starter, starter relay and WALLAH...........

Turns out the little black relays aren't working, they click, but don't send power out. Is this a common type of failure?

Not really.

You can test them with a battery and a multimeter. Check for continuity between pins 30 and 87a when no power is connected to the other pins. You should have it. Then apply +12V to pin 85 and ground to pin 86. There should no longer be continuity between 30 and 87a; instead it should be between 30 and 87. (You can swap power and ground between 85 and 86 and get the same result.)

If either one of those fails, then the relay really is borked. You can often pop the plastic cap off the base to look at the insides--it is just an electromagnet and a switch. When current flows between 85 and 86, the magnet pulls the switch so it bridges from 30 to 87, when the current isn't flowing between 85 and 86, there's a spring that pulls the contact form 30 over to 87a.

--DD

[Bulldog9]

Gents, I hope to wrap up the gauge wiring and tangerine cable throttle linkage this weekend, then prime the oil system and install the upper valve train.

A few pics of engine compartment and throttle cable install.

A few Electrical Q's.

1. Now that I have gone to carbs and eliminated the FI brain, What is the best way to run power to the fuel pump, just a switched power feed?

2. I did up a diagram to illustrate the Pertronix install, but have a question about grounding the coil. Nothing I could find in the pertronix instructions said anything about grounding the negative lead of the coil, but to connect the black wire from the module. My GUESS is that the module and coil are grounded by the distributor and the wire between the two accomplishes this. YES? NO? I'd prefer to do a direct ground for the coil just for power supply, but......

[Dave_Darling]

Do not ground the coil directly!! It grounds through the points, or in this case through the Pertronix. (The other circuit in the coil grounds through the spark plugs.)

Sir Andy did a write-up on adding a jumper to one of the pins in the four-pin connector on the relay board so that the fuel pump relay would power the pump when you are running carbs. It's an old thread, but a search should turn it up.

AFAIK, there are no power wires that come off the alternator. Just the one large-ish red wire from the starter, which shares a stud with the fat battery (+) cable. There would be several wires attached to the battery end of that cable, on the terminal that fits around the battery post. Sounds like someone has replaced the cable at some point (not the worst idea!) and hooked one of the power wires to the alternator. Which is a bit odd.

--DD

[Bulldog9]

Thanks Dave, that's what I thought, but wasn't sure that the lead from the module could carry enough current for the coil.

I'll look up that thread on the jumper. I may just power the fuel pump off the switched acc relay I installed in the front, seems silly to run power from the front to the back to run it all the way to the front again. I'd like to retain the stock wiring as much as possible,

Do not ground the coil directly!! It grounds through the points, or in this case through the Pertronix. (The other circuit in the coil grounds through the spark plugs.)

Sir Andy did a write-up on adding a jumper to one of the pins in the four-pin connector on the relay board so that the fuel pump relay would power the pump when you are running carbs. It's an old thread, but a search should turn it up.

AFAIK, there are no power wires that come off the alternator. Just the one large-ish red wire from the starter, which shares a stud with the fat battery (+) cable. There would be several wires attached to the battery end of that cable, on the terminal that fits around the battery post. Sounds like someone has replaced the cable at some point (not the worst idea!) and hooked one of the power wires to the alternator. Which is a bit odd.

--DD

[Bulldog9]

Well, I finally got all the upper gauges wired in properly, new gauge and indicator lights, everything seems to be working including the high beam and parking light indicators. Also installed the Momo.

Ran in to a few snafu's still need to work it out (maybe) for some reason the ground wire (ground) was energized with 12V when the key was on. This of course created all kinds of havoc, primarily activating the headlights when the dimmer was turned on, as well as the gauges acting funny. I traced the wire back into the dash and it looks like it runs down to a plug into a module? I just eliminated it and ran a fresh ground for the gauges and backlight.

So I now have in the upper dash Oil temp & pressure with oil and alt idiot lights from a 911, stock tach and stock speedo. I also removed the EGR light and put a fan switch (from a 911 AC system) for the new dash vents that bank the upper gauges.

Now I need to finish wiring in the lower gauges, to include a gas gauge, CYL head temp, clock (2"VDO) and a PLX Air Fuel/Volt meter. All the lower VDO gauges will be lit off the gauge lighting circuit including dimmer function, and LED indicators for the fog lights, low fuel and new aux fan. The PLX will come on with the ignition. Its not stock, and the purist may hate it, but I kinda like it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

Dash almost complete with MOMO steering wheel


Good view of all gauges. I have the PLX mounted with EZpass style velcro, I moved it down a bit to be more center.



Here is the offending 12V ground wire, and some of the new wires I had to run, the yellow is the Oil Pressure, and green is new ground. I also had to run an eztra 12V switched lead for the double gauge.