#770 (912E) Project thread *Tangerine Cooling System installed!) Options

[Bulldog9]

Gauges and Dash done!

[Bulldog9]

Making Progress, finally rebuilt and installed the CV Joints and axle shafts, and wired in the 'hot start' starter relay, removed the spark plugs and test cranked the motor to prime the oil system and build oil pressure. Pays to use OEM parts, the adhesive on the CV basket was very welcome, and fit was perfect.






Side rubber strip (NO FUN)


Also installed LED's and a USB port in center Console. I installed a USB port to plug in the back of the Blaupunkt head unit for cel phone charging, IPD, etc. Also a white LED with a mini toggle in the bin, red for the low fuel light circuit, blue for the accessory fan and green for fog lights.

[Dave_Darling]

Change the needle on the tach, or on the speedo. The tach has the early silver-cone needle, the speedo has the later no-cone one. If you go with cones, add one to the middle of the combo gauge as well. Looks weird with it mixed.

Be very very very careful with those ratchet-type jack stands. If you bump the release lever wrong, they can let go. Gint had to have his face reconstructed after an incident just like that. Pin-lock jack stands are much better. If you keep using these, rig up a way to positively hook the lever in the locked position! We don't need another forum member having to get emergency surgery after his car falls on him....

--DD

[Bulldog9]

Thanks Dave,

I haven't swapped out the tach or speedo, they are the ones in the car when I got it. I wondered about the mismatch, but figured it was what it was. Will go on the 'future' to do list.

On the jack stands, whenever I am under the car I use a floor jack as backup and as you can see the tires are under the car as well. Thanks for the lookout!

If I can get the holes drilled in the throttle arms this weekend, I will finish the Tangerine cable throttle system and maybe even install the pushrods and rocker arms.... Has anyone tied to drill through the Dellorto Throttle arm? holy cow, they just laugh at drill bits, even carbon. I ordered some carbide, hopefully those will work, if not I will just take to a machine shop and have drilled.

Change the needle on the tach, or on the speedo. The tach has the early silver-cone needle, the speedo has the later no-cone one. If you go with cones, add one to the middle of the combo gauge as well. Looks weird with it mixed.

Be very very very careful with those ratchet-type jack stands. If you bump the release lever wrong, they can let go. Gint had to have his face reconstructed after an incident just like that. Pin-lock jack stands are much better. If you keep using these, rig up a way to positively hook the lever in the locked position! We don't need another forum member having to get emergency surgery after his car falls on him....

--DD

[FourBlades]

This is a great build! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif)

Will be a very cool car.

John

[Bulldog9]

Making serious progress. Finished the Tangerine Cable Throttle system, got the correct spacers for the Dell 36's so the Air Filters set properly, Ran fuel lines to carbs, and installed an oil pressure switch to control the fuel pump. I'll break all out in separate posts.

First is the Tangerine Cable Throttle System.
Overall a very nice smooth system, and easy install. Super high quality parts and machining. Really like supporting a small business and custom part maker like Chris. The only hiccup was drilling the dellorto throttle arms. SUPER hard metal required a $20 carbide cutting bit.

The Dellorto Carb return springs are pretty strong, and I don't know if the Tangerine supplied springs were necessary, but as you can see there are springs attached to the pulleys. The instructions are clear, and common sense made for an easy install. Though I must admit I didn't really read them other than the part on drilling the 1/8" hole for the pin to locate the throttle arm to the pulley. I used blue loctite on the nuts, as the standard locking tabs would not fit inside the pulley. The cable to the slave pulley is too long, so before I cut it I heated it up with the soldering iron, impregnated it with solder and cut. FOr extra insurance against fraying I also stuck a piece of shrink tube over the end and shrunk it up. I had to use a couple washers as the pulley arrangement forces the elimination of the spacers on the shaft. The nut bottomed out before tightening the pulley. Still need to fine tune, but to my eyes the system is ready to go.

[Bulldog9]

Carb Spacer and Air Filter Install
The Dell 36 has a raised fuel banjo and while the CB performance bases work fine, the ITG filters did not. After some research, I found a website called eurocarb that sells a bunch of carb parts and filters and stumbled on these spacers. I bought a set of RAMFLO filters really cheap, and may use in the future, but for now and the setup, balance, tune, etc, I will stick with the ITG filters. The shorter filter still makes a little bit of contact with the trunk lid arm, but not bad. The ITG filters allow the use of the velocity stacks, and seal up nice. No real place or way to run a connection for the Crankcase or fuel vapor vent so I guess I'll just vent them to atmosphere. The fuel vapor is routed to under the car and the crankcase vent will just have a small filter.

[Bulldog9]

Fuel Pump relay
I figured out how the stock double relay worked for the fuel pump, and installed a normally open oil pressure switch, that at 4lbs of pressure and becomes a closed circuit.

With the change to carbs and elimination of the computer, the pump does not run in the 'on' position. Once I figured that out, I also wanted some type of safety that wouldn't overpower the float valves, and eliminated the possibility of accidentally flooding the engine and dumping raw fuel if the ignition switch was left on.

The stock 912E system runs the fuel pump when the starter is engaged, and when running. If the car stalled, the fuel pump would shut off. When air passed the airflow flap arm thing in the airbox, it closed a contact, and triggered the fuel pump relay. I backtracked to the circuit on the relay, and discovered that on the right side of the relay (FI side) terminal 88a was 12V out, and according to the schematic ran to the air flow sensor/meter in the airbox. Tracing that, I saw that it returned and ran through the fuel pump relay on terminal 86b. I tested this theory and it worked perfectly.

Fuel pump runs when start is engaged, and stops when set to run. Jumping terminal 88a & 86b activated the relay and fuel pump. I installed a Normally OPEN oil pressure switch (from an 88 GMC for the same purpose) to act as the safety. So the fuel pump will run when starting and will continue to run as long as there is 4lbs of pressure.

I did another wiring diagram, mostly so I could figure it out and document what I did so when I have to go back years from now, I don't have to try to remember (futile effort)

OK its beer time..............

[ChrisFoley]

That looks real good Steve.
Nice that someone makes those spacer plates so the ITG bases will fit on the 36's.

BTW, I expected to see the return springs behind the pulleys...
but maybe you already tried that and prefer them in front with your installation.

[barefoot]

That looks real good Steve.
Nice that someone makes those spacer plates so the ITG bases will fit on the 36's.

BTW, I expected to see the return springs behind the pulleys...
but maybe you already tried that and prefer them in front with your installation.

For 914's the return springs would be behind the pulleys, Just because the engine is installed the wrong way in 912's (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[barefoot]

Carb Spacer and Air Filter Install
The Dell 36 has a raised fuel banjo and while the CB performance bases work fine, the ITG filters did not. After some research, I found a website called eurocarb that sells a bunch of carb parts and filters and stumbled on these spacers. I bought a set of RAMFLO filters really cheap, and may use in the future, but for now and the setup, balance, tune, etc, I will stick with the ITG filters. The shorter filter still makes a little bit of contact with the trunk lid arm, but not bad. The ITG filters allow the use of the velocity stacks, and seal up nice. No real place or way to run a connection for the Crankcase or fuel vapor vent so I guess I'll just vent them to atmosphere. The fuel vapor is routed to under the car and the crankcase vent will just have a small filter.

Is the ID of the velocity stack the same at the inlet throat of the carb ?
For your 2 filter choices, not quite clear which uses the white spacers. Too bad their ID does not match the carb throat. there will be some inlet loss at WOT as the inlet flow is a sharp edge at the throat. I got past this dilemma by making custom velocity stacks that mount under the top spacer/ filter housing. had to make them 2 piece as the inlet bell mouth would not fit thru the spacer.

[Bulldog9]

Its almost Startin time.....

Installed the valve train and adjusted valves, installed spark plugs and primed oil and fuel systems, all is connected. Before I turn the key, want to check a few things and get some final wisdom/input. I've never done a full rebuild from scratch like this, and never on a VW/Type 4, so bear with me. Want to lessen the snafu's.

Current set.
1. 4 quarts Break in oil - dipstick shows 1 quart low. Is this ok for breakin? Cranked motor just enough to build pressure. Should I bring up to full for first start and break in? I know I will drain the oil after the breakin, so I'm inclined to leave alone.

2. Carbs DEL 36's floats were set and the mixture screws are initially set at 2.5 turns out. Tangerine cables are synced well, bowls are filled and floats tested (don't leak)

3. The Pertronix plug & play billet had springs installed by EMW, and I have one red (20) and one blue (16) for total of 18 advance limiters. **For Breakin, I have dist set AT TDC.


PLAN
1. Start engine quickly without excessive cranking. Run engine at 2000-2500 RPM for 30 minutes.
2. Shut off, drain oil, check oil for metal shavings etc.
3. When engine cools, check/readjust the valve clearances to zero lash.
4. Change Filter Refill with Brad Penn 20W50
5. Restart Set timing to 27-28deg BTDC at 3500 RPM 9-10BTDC at Idle (850-950 RPM).
6. Install O2 sensor to read exhaust gasses and adjust carbs. (NO idea how yet, need to get there, lol)

What am I missing..........

[ChrisFoley]

To hold steady rpm for breakin you should be able to insert a shim between the throttle stop arm and the adjustment screw on the master carb.
Not sure the needed thickness but I'm guessing in the 1/8" range.

We usually set the full advance timing as soon as we have the engine running, then hold 2500 for 20 minutes.

If you have oil leaks or other issues shut it off right away and resolve them before attempting to run continuously.

We generally leave the break-in oil in the engine until after the first or second drive to seat the rings.

[Bulldog9]

Just finished starting the engine for the first time. Had a bit of a brain fart and a bit anxious about timing marks, but I decided to go for it, and all is good! Put the drivers seat in, and a buddy come over to help with turning the key while I was out back.

I set the static timing for a bit before TDC (ended up being 14BTDC at 3500) car started on second crank! I had primed fuel bowls and oil system before attempting to start. Motor started right away, one cyl was a bit lean for the first few seconds (popping out carb) , but that cleared up quickly.

Ran the motor up to 3500, set timing to 27BTDC, then let the motor run at 2000-2500 RPM (mostly at 2400-2500), then let it idle down, set idle at 950-1000 RPM, checked base/idle timing at 11, then ran up to 3500 and set to 27BTDC, was back at 11 at idle. All is good.

I also did the 'by ear' the way I did it for years, found the sweet spot, and ended up being dead on at 11 at idle and 27 at 3500.

Valves on passenger side were a bit noisier than on drivers side, but I'm sure that will change when I readjust.

Temps stayed well in range, the 911 oil temp gauge reads a bit higher than 1/2. The CHT shows 330-340 even during break in.

Shut down and let cool, checked for leaks, no leaks so far!

After sitting for an hour I went out, started back up and went for a 15 mile drive. Engine pulls well, haven't gone to redline yet, will do on next drive, BUT motor pulls smoothly, no surging no flat spots, pulls linearly from idle to 5K. Not overly powerful, but got to 70 in no time, and cruised nicely. VERY HAPPY CAMPER.

I had NO idea if the Tach, Speedo or Trans would work, this was the first time the car has run and been driven in almost 20 years. BUt the trans shifts nicely, Tach is rock solid as is speedo. I have a few adjustments to make on the clutch, as well as the shift linkage, but the suspension was SMOOTH, no clunking on bumps, no noises, very comfortable. Still need to get a 4 wheel alignment, is just my 'eye estimate' at this point, but the car drove straight, steering a bit heavy, but proper camber/caster will fix that. Seated the brakes a bit, will take some getting used to.

Overall I am psyched, next up will be to readjust the valves and take for a few more drives to seat the rings, push the motor a bit more, run to redline, connect the AFM, and start playing with the carb adjustments, am currently at 3 turns out on the idle adjustment screws, seems to be good.

But at this point, I am VERY happy with the motor, pulls evenly, no flat spots, feels strong across the rev range, but I haven't really pushed it yet. Looking forward to How it runs after the valve adjust, oil change and timing check. Will take some getting used to the almost rough 'pulse' of a flat 4, and feel of the motor, but I think we are off to a great start!

[mepstein]

Congrats! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[bigkensteele]

Way to go!!! You have built a great car and you should be proud! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Bulldog9]

Did the valve adjust tonight, exhaust on #1 was a little loose, intake was a little tight. Not sure how that happened, but the rest were pretty close, maybe a little tight overall. After I buttoned everything up, I went for a 30 minute drive.

Engine ran stronger and stayed cool. Easily hit 100 on the highway with little effort, and cruised beautifully in 5th gear at 75. Pulls strong and flat from 1700-5000 RPM, and makes BEAUTIFUL sounds!!! Not comfortable running to redline under hard acceleration yet, but ran up to redline nice and easy as I ran through the gears, and did several full throttle accel and hard decel cycles. Not a hitch, not a stutter, not a ping..... I have to be honest and say that I am very surprised. I really expected to have to take to a pro to get tuned and dialed in. If I have time tomorrow after work, I am going to hook up the PLX and see what my AFR is.

A few observations: Keep in mind I have NEVER driven a 912E, 914 or even a mid year 911.....

1. The clutch is light, smooth and a delight to operate.

2. The Gearbox is SLOW, but I'm driving an E36 M-3 every day so maybe not a fair comparison. BUT, all the gears and syncros work well, only an occasional stubborn gear change. I used dead dino gearbox lube, nothing special.

3. NO power steering and brakes will take some getting use to. Though it is not power assisted, I did expect a bit more bite. Hopefully will get an opportunity to go out this weekend and seat the brakes a bit more as well as put a few more miles on the engine, then will change out the break in oil.

4. Car handles flat and ride is very comfortable. It is hard to make an assessment as there is NO sound insulation so all the senses are engaged thus I may not be able to really 'feel' the road, though the suspension is very supple and the Rebel Racing suspension makes movement smooth and fast, much faster than a twisting rubber bushing I think.

5. The Tangerine exhaust sounds VERY nice. Mellow, and full, and NOT at all like a VW flat 4. Also the Heat exchanger system works very nicely. Not overly Hot, but hot enough. I'd like more airflow and may look into a stronger fan, but overall is working out nicely.

6. Starter cranks too slow for my liking and seems to labor a bit on the compression stroke. My grounds are good, so I think it may be the starter. Time will tell.

7. Looks like my flaps are a little sticky, will play with them a bit and adjust the cable to the thermostat.

8. The 911 Double gauge I bought on E-bay fogs up when the car is started and running, VERY strange as it is all electrical.

**Quick question, what is the best/optimal range for the engine as measured by the CHT gauge? I'm tracking just under 350 once fully warmed up. Plan a longer drive this weekend, want to keep my eyes on everything.

[mgp4591]

Nice job, sweet looking car! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif)

[Bulldog9]

UPDATE

Well, 500 miles into the engine already, NO major issues. I adjusted the valves and changed out the break in oil at 300 miles, then readjusted timing and idle. Also installed the Oxygen sensor, and ran the AFM for the first time.

AFM - Basically ranges from 12-13:1 for average running and idle and when cruising in top gear light throttle hovers around 14.1-14.5 when at a very light throttle, but mostly is right at 13-13.5. I THINK This is good for an air cooled motor, you want it a little rich. Correct? FULL throttle pedal to metal is 10.5 ish. At least that is from memory. I know the MAGIC # is

I initially set the timing off the 'factory' red line, but on readjust used the mark I made for TRUE TDC, which is one fan blade off. Motor runs as smooth but feels better overall, about a 3-5 degree difference (less) than the red mark.

As the motor has broken in and the 30W oil out, the engine cranks much faster. Still think the starter is a bit slow and weak, but I have nothing to compare it to.

Running Hi Test (94), didn’t want to risk a lower octane at start. When the tank needs refilling, will try 5 gallons of mid then regular. I am also adding a bottle of seafoam or Lucas to every tank given the idiocy of environmental weenies and ethanol. I need to see if there is a PURE gas station near me. I had a great farmers CO-OP in VA....

Motor is running very well, at least seems so, idles strong, pulls well from 2,000, and STRONG from 2500-5000, even feels great the last 500 RPB, but just a little less urgent in power.

Looking forward to meeting up with a few people, letting them drive/listen and maybe drive so I can compare. I know it probably seems retarded to you guys, but I have never driven an Air Cooled Porsche, 911, 912, 914 or 912E, so I guess I have nothing to compare to, but it really sounds and feels good, and except for a VERY small hesitation that comes on when after holding in 3rd or 4th and sustained RPM, the first SLIGHT pressing/feathering of the gas causes a lean (15:1) and slight hesitation. A quick stab at the throttle leaves NO hesitation, just the slight. I wanted to go to cars & coffee this weekend, but will be in Seattle all day at a training conference.

Overall I am happy, look forward to getting sound insulation and carpet and seats in! The singer sewing machine sound (silky) takes some getting used to and the unmistaken VW mechanical sound is present, but I think that is the nature of a flat 4..... I REALLY like the sound the Tangerine Exhaust makes.....

ISSUE 1: My thermostat does not expand............. I bought one of those ones from the guy who makes new ones, forgot the name, will look it up and contact him. Flaps are open 3/4 for now so things don’t get too toasty

ISSUE 2: The Transmission is LOUD........ and once warmed up is very noisy when idling in neutral. Is also balky, making shifting back in to 1st a challenge on occasion. DEFINATELY a Dinosaur....... I initially put cheap dead dino oil in it so I could run the first few hundred miles to clean out any rust, or debris from sitting for 20 years. I DIDDNT do anything to the transaxle but clean the outside and change oil. Will add the slick expensive stuff soon.


PLS feel free to wreigh in with some wisodm, I am all ears.....

[Bulldog9]

Well, this AD freaked me out for a second...... Thought someone was running a spoof ad. This is a very nice car, and looks to be all original. Will be interesting to see what it sells for. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-912-912E-/...em=161882990640