Outer CV Joint Removal..., Need some advice Options

[Joseph Mills]

After removing the four star bolts from the outer CV joint (at the wheel), I removed the axle with the circlip, cage and balls in place (which are all in good shape). However, the CV joint "hub" itself (with the two guide pins) has not budged from the "wheel hub flange".

With the inner CV joint (next to the transaxle), the hub is totally exposed and a few taps with a hammer and then careful prying with a screwdriver and the hub comes right off the "transaxle flange".

But since the outer hub is located deep inside the suspension arm, it is difficult to get to.

Any advice, tips, or tools that may help me break this thing loose?

[redshift]

Never done it.... but here's a bump for a quick response.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


M

[Aaron Cox]

pull the stub axle then. one BIG bolt on the wheel side with a BFH or cheater bar or an impact wrench.

[Gary]

I'm having a tough time picturing where you are in your disassembly. Sounds like you have the inboard CV separated from the transmission flange, and the outboard CV triple square bolts removed, but the CV still attached to the stub axle by the roll pins.

If so, you need to remove the stub axle from the suspension arm. I think you're stuck putting the axle back on the tranny, removing the big axle nut (? 30mm), then removing the whole half shaft as a unit. Then you can separate the outboard CV from the stub axle.

[LvSteveH]

I'm guessing that you are saying that the body of the cv joint is attached to the stub axle, while you were able to remove the axle shaft along with the cage and balls still attached. I'm actually surprised you were able or incline to remove it, as having the axle in place gives you something to apply force to in removing the cv from the stub axle.

I usually just push the axle fully into the cv, then quickly snap it to the fully extended position to break it loose. In your case I'd guess you have two options.

1. Remove the stub axle, which will require replacing the wheel bearing, as it is damaged from removing the stub.

or

2. get a thin pry bar, and work your way slowly around the cv, applying lateral force to shimmy it out, a little at a time. Actually, if you were careful, I bet the right bearing puller/slide hammer could fit into the center of the cv, grab it from the inside edges, so not to damage any mating surfaces, and with a few pops it would come unseated. You may be able to borrow one from a local parts store if you don't already have one.

Good luck.

[Joseph Mills]

SteveH,Dec 12 2004, 06:08 PM]
"I'm guessing that you are saying that the body of the cv joint is attached to the stub axle, while you were able to remove the axle shaft along with the cage and balls still attached."

Steve, you are so totally correct on everything. That is exactly what I did.

"I'm actually surprised you were able or incline to remove it, as having the axle in place gives you something to apply force to in removing the cv from the stub axle."

It just kinda came out as I was trying to do what you describe below. The cage got slightly turned enough that a bearing came out and in trying to straighten the axle back up the whole thing came out.

"I usually just push the axle fully into the cv, then quickly snap it to the fully extended position to break it loose."

That is no longer an option now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

"In your case I'd guess you have two options.

1. Remove the stub axle, which will require replacing the wheel bearing, as it is damaged from removing the stub."

Not quite ready to do that yet.

or

"2. get a thin pry bar, and work your way slowly around the cv, applying lateral force to shimmy it out, a little at a time. Actually, if you were careful, I bet the right bearing puller/slide hammer could fit into the center of the cv, grab it from the inside edges, so not to damage any mating surfaces, and with a few pops it would come unseated. You may be able to borrow one from a local parts store if you don't already have one."

I've tried a carpenters crow bar, a drum brake adjusting tool, etc. No luck so far. But I think you're correct about the "right" puller/slide hammer.

Do you think a bit of heat might help? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[JWest]

You usually need to pull the stub axle to get the required leverage to pry the roll pin's hold loose. Once the 30mm bolt is off, the stubs usually push out without too much effort.

You will not destroy the bearing by removing the stub, provided you do not put weight on the wheel while the stub is out. If you do, the hub will start to come out, and usually take the inner race of the bearing with it.

[LvSteveH]

I wouldn't try heat, I think that's extreme, and James is right, sometimes the stubs do just slide out, in which case the bearing wouldn't be damaged, but if you have to whack the stub to get it out, then the bearings are dimpling the race, and that is of course a bad thing. It's such a pain in the butt to pull it all apart that I'd usen new bearings if I had to force the stub out.

Putting the stub back in is easy because you can chill it in the freezer or pull it in using the method described on Pelican without damage.

I'd still go with the slide hammer bearing puller if you can find one. You could probably make something functional out of a dent pulling slide hammer if you needed to.

[Series9]

pull the stub axle then. one BIG bolt on the wheel side with a BFH or cheater bar or an impact wrench.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

You won't hurt the bearing if you keep weight off it until the stub is back in place and torqued down.

[Eric_Shea]

Where would the stub axle come in contact with the bearing in so much to cause it harm upon removal? The "hub" is pulled completely through the bearing. The hub shaft is 37mm long and the inner bearing surface from outside to inside is 37mm. The stub axle does not contact the bearing other than to "kiss it where it comes in contact with the hub.

Removing the stub axle (which resides inside the hub) will not harm the wheel bearing. Steve, your freezer and dent puller comments make me think you are definately referring to the "hub".

To answer the original question, I would agree with the other posters:

Remove the stub axle. You'll need a 30mm socket and a nice size breaker bar.
Now your axle should slide completely out. Get a BFRM (rubber or plastic mallet) and start working the stub axle. Get some large screwdrivers as leverage as well.
The roll pins and years of old grease are holding it on there.

[LvSteveH]

Removing the stub axle (which resides inside the hub) will not harm the wheel bearing.  Steve, your freezer and dent puller comments make me think you are definately referring to the "hub".

Well, you are half right, I was thinking of the hub with regard to bearing damage, but given how the cv body is stuck there, the bearing slide puller could easily separate it without removing the stub. My brain is only 15% functional at this point, Ancient Philosophy has taken its toll.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

[Joseph Mills]

I'd still go with the slide hammer bearing puller if you can find one. You could probably make something functional out of a dent pulling slide hammer if you needed to.

Thanks again Steve. Your suggestion is exactly what I'm going to try. My friend Craig (on this list) is bringing over a couple of slider tools tomorrow to tryout. We'll give it one last try before resorting to more extreme and probably more costly measures. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Thanks to all of you for your various comments - all pieces of a puzzle - I learned a bit from each. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[John]

So, I'm not sure exactly what you have done.

When I used to (before I got smarter) remove halfshafts, I used to remove the bolts from the inner (transmission side) CV joint and seperate the axle there. I would then remove the bolts on the outer (wheel bearing end) CV joint. The outer CV joint (wheel bearing side) would ALWAYS be stuck because of the roll pins. I used to use the axle itself as a slide hammer to pull the axle out of the stub axle (wheel bearing side).

It was always a big PITA and with the car up in the air, it was probably not too safe. I learned later on (about 10 years ago) that it was MUCH MUCH easier to:

Remove the stub axle nut, then remove and seperate the inner CV joint (transmission side). The axle assembly will now EASILY slide out of the outer Wheel Hub.

(CAUTION: do not rest the weight of the car on the rear wheels if the Stub axle is not installed and torqued or you risk damage to the rear wheel bearings. {From what I have herd/Read})

[Eric_Shea]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) with John. It's not extreme or costly to loosen a 30mm nut and slide the entire assembly out so you can perform the task in sunlight.

Good luck.

Let us know what you end up doing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif)