V-TEC power, what do you think??? Options

[Brett W]

Clay,
For all that hatred of rice, you must have had your 914 smoked by some "ricer" in a civic.

I agree with JP. Horsepower rules. If you don't have it you are just another toy car that should be in the slow lane.

Honda makes some good stuff. They were the first manufacture to make the 100hp/litre mark and have a reliable daily driver. Plus you can make them handle great. I have seen many a turbo and non turbo civic with enough power to walk away from most 911s and 914-6s. Boy that will really piss off some of the Porsch owners. Built right I have seen a few that could out handle some 911s and 914s. You can build a lot of power inexpensively with Honda parts. There is a huge aftermarket for them as well. I have seen street driven 200-600hp civics. So what if they are wrong wheel drive and the engine is in front of the driver.

The Civic, Focus, Corolla, Celica, Golf, GT are the new tri-year Chevies, Novas, Lemans, Darts, etc. Like it or not they are the future.

[ClayPerrine]

I don't hate Japanese tuner cars. I hate riceboy POSEURS who slap stickers and fart cans on their cars and think that they can smoke a Viper when they don't know the proper way to install their lug nuts.

I know a lot of Japanese cars that can smoke a 914. That's not the point. I will rag a poseur in a 914 or 911 who puts a bunch of race look junk on the outside of a stock car.

Fastest car I ever drove was a Honda. It was a Honda 600 (read tiny little car with 2 cylinder, air cooled 600cc motor cycle engine). The owner bought it from a guy who transplanted an 1100 Hurrincane motor into it. 70 MPH and it could lay waste to a Corvette with ease. Even had a sequecial shifter.

I don't hate Japanese cars. I hate the Poseurs they attract.

[Mueller]

VR6 = $$$

, you can pick them up in good shape and running from $500 (what I paid) to $1000 all day long

did you have any ideas on mounting the mr2 motor?

I'm not trying to be an ass, but if you have to ask questions like that, then a swap like this is not for you, there are no part numbers to go by...test fitting and fabrication is going to be required....do some research and find pictures of other swaps, this will give you a general idea of how to do it......

the adapter plate and flywheel is going to cost $500 no matter what engine swap you decide on.....unless you very creative and have access to the machining to do so and even then, it's still going to cost some money as long as you do everything correct the first time.

[mattillac]

why does everybody have to rain on my parade? don't blame honda/toyota/nissan for all the ricer crap that's out there. i have no problem putting a jap motor with reliable horsepower in my 914. the only problem is how it will fit... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[mattillac]

VR6 = $$$

, you can pick them up in good shape and running from $500 (what I paid) to $1000 all day long

did you have any ideas on mounting the mr2 motor?

I'm not trying to be an ass, but if you have to ask questions like that, then a swap like this is not for you, there are no part numbers to go by...test fitting and fabrication is going to be required....do some research and find pictures of other swaps, this will give you a general idea of how to do it......

the adapter plate and flywheel is going to cost $500 no matter what engine swap you decide on.....unless you very creative and have access to the machining to do so and even then, it's still going to cost some money as long as you do everything correct the first time.

i'm fully aware that some(maybe alot) of fabrication will be required. thankfully my dad's a great machinist and my bro's a super welder. if we put our heads together we could probably figure something out. but that's not to say that i mind pirating some or all of someone elses good idea (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) i'll fess up that it wasn't my idea if someone asks me. i'll give credit where it is due.

[Mueller]

why does everybody have to rain on my parade? don't blame honda/toyota/nissan for all the ricer crap that's out there. i have no problem putting a jap motor with reliable horsepower in my 914. the only problem is how it will fit... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

just about anything will fit....Chevy V8s are installed into 914s on almost a weekly basis...the "biggest" engine I've seen in a 914 is a 928 engine, after that one, the rest are a piece of cake....so yes, your honda/toyota engine will fit (stay away from the straight 6's from toyota, too long unless you want to cut the firewall)

[lapuwali]

why does everybody have to rain on my parade?

You yourself said "fire away" in your opening post. You didn't expect anti-ricer flames? Hey, you started it...

Nothing wrong with a Jap motor in the 914. The VTEC may not be the best Jap motor to go with. Lots of other Jap engines spin in the correct direction, and can make more power than you can reasonably use w/o spending big money on gearboxes, and are known to clear the engine bay. If you're in to trying something new, then go for it, but don't expect much help, as no one else will know anything specific to tell you. Fitting any alternate engine is going to require fabrication of parts you simply cannot buy. You won't be able to buy an exhaust for a VTEC or most other engines that will work in a 914. You won't be able to buy an engine mount for these things. Both will need to be made up custom. The fact that turbo kits are available for the VTEC is rendered moot by the fact that you're not mounting it in a Honda. The exhaust will still have to be done up custom.

In short, what you're proposing is a fairly big deal, and the fact that you can get special pricing on some internal engine parts isn't going to do much about that. If you can weld and fabricate, then stop talking and start doing. No one else can help much, as no one else has done what you're trying to do. If you can't weld or fabricate, you'll need to learn or open your wallet wide.

This isn't raining on your parade, this is being realistic. If you really want to do it, then do it. I'm sure many of us would be very pleased to see the final product and would like to hear about how you did it. Ground-breaking is expensive, though.

Read your PMs.

[mattillac]

(stay away from the straight 6's from toyota, too long unless you want to cut the firewall)

my co-worker has a twin turbo supra running 20psi of boost. all i can say is (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif)

[mattillac]

the fabrication and welding shouldn't be a problem, but since family members are doing it, it may take a while(sighhhhh). i just hope my old man doesn't retire before i get a chance to start on such a project. if he does, then i'll have to make friends with the local machine shop. and i don't mind the ricer flames, i'm not a ricer. i just don't like having to face the truth...that no matter what, my dreams will take time and money to realize. i hate the real world! :finger2: anyone know the nubers to the winning lottery ticket? i'll give you a high-five for it! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Mueller]

then i'll have to make friends with the local machine shop

cash works wonders with making friends (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[mattillac]

back to the subject at hand, i've seen some subaru, v8, v6, rotary conversions, but no inline 4 conversions. i don't think anyone on the board has one. anybody seen one before?

[Joe Bob]

When ya do the swap....don't forget the fart can.....

[sixnotfour]

Start a spread sheet on the Costs,
engine
adapter
and so on

I was thinking that economically , I bet that the VR6 set up is priced right , and is different.
Thats .002 cents please (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Mueller]

back to the subject at hand, i've seen some subaru, v8, v6, rotary conversions, but no inline 4 conversions. i don't think anyone on the board has one. anybody seen one before?

yep....4 cylinder dodge/chrysler turbo motor has been done.........for the cost and time involved, there are better choices than a 4 banger motor and the fact that there are a few kits for V8s and V6's, so that is why there are more....

[Dave_Darling]

A couple points here...

First, Honda's version of the "which cam do you want now?" is called VTEC. V-TECH is a manufacturer of shitty telephone equipment.

Note that Honda was the first one to come out with a mechanism to switch cam profiles on the fly, and that other companies like Toyota and even Porsche (Variocam-Plus) have emulated them.

Second, the K-series engines (S2000, the modern Civic) all turn the "standard" direction. Older B-, D-, and H-series engines all turn the "wrong" way.

Third, the only engine swaps you will find off-the-shelf parts to bolt together for are the 911 engine swaps and the small-block Shebby swaps. Anything else will involve measuring, fabrication, hair-pulling, trial and error, and repeat all of that until you start to go crazy. And it may very well be worth it, if you're proud of the results.

Finally, most of the Honda engines have reasonable power curves. The typical recipie seems to be to take a four-banger motor with an OK power band that idles fine and is pretty flexible, and to keep that setup for low-RPM operation. Then for high RPMs, they switch over to the cam lobes with lots of lift and duration--which helps make high power. Even at lower RPMs, they're not too bad. Especially in a lightweight car.

The Celica and S2000 are evidently the worst of the lot for being gutless when on the low-RPM cam. From my readings, the Celica is a whole lot worse than the RSX Type-S in this respect, and may even be worse than the S2K! Imagine that, an engine with less "flexibility" than the S2K?? (One comparo article I read said that the Celica's motor "out-Hondas Honda".) Most of the Honda mills tend to be decent or at least half-decent at low revs, and really very good indeed at high revs. You could do much worse than to put an RSX Type-S motor into your 914... But those are pretty spendy motors, because all the guys with regular (current-model) Civics want them for engine swaps...

A B-series, like a B18C1 (Integra GS-R) could be nice. Something on the order of 150 lb-ft of torque and 180 HP should help a lightweight 914 get out of its own way. But again, it may be more $$ than you would like to spend because lots of Civic drivers want to swap a GS-R motor into their car. And remember, the B-series spins the "wrong way".

And on and on it goes.


...And yes, my other car is a Honda!!

--DD

[mattillac]

thanks for the tips dave. i'm thinking that the only hard part of the swap is going to be the motor mounts. i'd probably use one of those v8 radiator kits and a kep adapter and flywheel. i'm pretty sure my bro can help weld up an exhaust and brackets and stuff. i'm still wondering if a RWD motor would be easier as far as the motor mounts go.

[lapuwali]

IIRC, the engine mounting points on many fwd engines assume that the transaxle is used for some of the mounting. There's nearly always a mount at the nose of the engine, where the timing belt is located; and another mount on the "front" of the engine (side that faces front when mounted in an fwd car). The "rear" mount (side that faces the firewall) is often on the transaxle, so there's nothing to bolt to if you remove the transaxle.

You might be able to ignore that and simply use the "nose" mount on the 914 firewall, relying on the mounts at the gearbox tail to take up the lateral forces. This is basically what the orignal 914/6 mounting system does. If that works, then the engine mount might not be all that bad. This frees up a lot of space on the sides for exhaust and intake.

The chief difficulty I see with this mounting system would be that most inline fours shake a good deal, a lot more than the flat six does. All of that shaking would be transmitted through the geabox to the rear mounts, which will probably have a significantly shorter life than with a flat four or six.

[mattillac]

When ya do the swap....don't forget the fart can.....

noway, gotta have DUAL fart cans! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[mattillac]

so maybe i could weld up some kind of mount at the firewall and then maybe some tube steel from the side of the engine compartment to the mount on the "front" of the
motor. hmmmm. i need to go look at some honda motors.

[Dave_Darling]

The D- and I believe B-series motors mount thus:

There is a left-side mount that goes in the middle of the timing belt. (Yeah, you have to remove one mount to replace the t-belt. And you gotta do that every 60K miles.)

There is a right-side mount on the end of the transmission.

There is a front mount from the transmission onto the forward crossmember.

There is a rear mount from the transmission onto the rear crossmember.

I just did a transmission swap on the CRX last Sunday, so this is fresh in my mind....

--DD