Ford 9" Transaxle, the lack of Options

[veekry9]

Ah you see?
The objective of the dual rad install is to avoid the big hole in front.
filling the trunk with bulkheads and ducting,thereby rendering the
utility of the design moot.The 911 has the very same 2 cooler approach
by necessity of purpose.Are there any wassermensch here who have made
a doppel cooler setup?Not simpler or expedient to merely drop a vette rad
in and be done with it.Having modified the 914 to the degree of a V8,what
class and against what Porsche would you be competing?
The 2cooler approach has it's own difficulties,however when the lid is lifted,
it would look normally stock,with a spare.There is plenty of room for 2.


Right About Here


Cut out the Hole

There will always be another mousetrap design from Acme.

[Dave_Darling]

The 2cooler approach has it's own difficulties,however when the lid is lifted,
it would look normally stock,with a spare.There is plenty of room for 2.


Right About Here

That's basically where the headlight lives when it's not popped up. How are you dealing with that again?

--DD

[SirAndy]

That's basically where the headlight lives when it's not popped up. How are you dealing with that again?

There's plenty of space under the bucket to duct air into the wheel well ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[veekry9]

The 2cooler approach has it's own difficulties,however when the lid is lifted,
it would look normally stock,with a spare.There is plenty of room for 2.


Right About Here

That's basically where the headlight lives when it's not popped up. How are you dealing with that again?

--DD

I considered a fixed lamp of more recent design,a flipup headlamp was always considered a fad,even then.It was what the market could bear in '69.
An extra feature that came with the car at a great manufacturing cost.
The initial "automotive journalists" review of the car was uncomplimentary
almost unreasoned.The point of the graphical experiment is just to test the
merits of one idea or another.The contention that we are free to say what if.

[Andyrew]

Small dual radiators will be a PITA for a v8. If you were going turbo 4 or similar then it could work. But you need some STUPID efficient radiators to make some small ones work for a v8.

[veekry9]

Small dual radiators will be a PITA for a v8. If you were going turbo 4 or similar then it could work. But you need some STUPID efficient radiators to make some small ones work for a v8.

Undoubtedly difficult and not without hassles.And the area involved would have to
sufficient for the application,whether V8 or otherwise(can anyone say BMW V12?)
For the express purpose of retaining the trunkspace as designed.
Aircooled to water circulator must make some compromises but
why that one?Around the problem not through or over.
I'm figuring a way to add the pair of rads outboard in front of the rear
wheelwells in a compact way,and thereby reduce the additional mass up front.
Some ducting in and out with the requisite efans and voila! an effficient
cooling system for a highpowered install,moving the air.
Down low,jnside the wheelbase,whether in front of the rears or behind the
fronts has to be more effective at reducing the cars polar moment.

I've had a look at the vids posted and have been reduced to drooling.
Mmmm..V8,Camaro,Corvette.And from what I can see,It's a 914 TX that all
that torque is going through.
Trans cooling?
Intermediate plate?
Sideplate?
Output flanges?
Close ratio?
Final gearset ratio?
You see,when I take to the track in the future,I would be pissed if the TX failed on the first try.
.A large slick of 90wt along with various chunks strewn across a hairpin exit
would harsh my day.It happened when Ford went to LeMan in the 60's
unprepared and brokedown.

http://rennlist.com/forums/944-turbo-and-t...ild-thread.html
https://www.youtube.com/user/garcia171/videos

Here is a V8 running a 951 TX,and there is no doubt that steps were taken
to ensure the survival of it.Not cheap but certain.

Certainly Better Suited for V8 Torque.
Proven Track Use

[veekry9]

Anyone here ever attempt there 944 trailing arm install?
I heard tell that it's a thing they do in Europa with their
Bugs.Some work in adapting for sure,though i'm not certain
to what advantage other than a complete brake cv and axle
install.Output flanges to 944 inner cv's needed.

[Dave_Darling]

You need a bunch more parts to use the 944 trailing arms. It looks like they use spring plates or some other extra arms for lateral support. That one joint isn't going to provide any kind of resistance to lateral movement; the 914 semi-trailing arm has a wide base for the mounts to the chassis of the car. So you'll be adding extra parts, and fabricating, and so on and so on.

And by that time, why not ditch the whole suspension and do something like make a custom multi-link setup or graft on a Lotus suspension like Britain did?

--DD

[DBCooper]

Those trailing arms are late 951 and with some effort they'll bolt on to VW bugs. You're right, Dave, they require springplates. For a bug there's some weight saving, but the real advantage is being able to bolt on 951 calipers, which of course negates those weight savings. That and to tell people you have "real" Porsche suspension under your bug, but neither of those things is any real advantage for a 914. The geometry of those arms is ALL wrong for a 914, so they won't fit unless you intend to cut them apart and re-weld them in the correct length and orientation and some kind of trailing arm to replace the springplates. They're so different that that will be major major surgery. Definitely won't gain enough in weight reduction or anything else to make that amount of work worthwhile.

You've been suggesting one wildly impractical idea after another. Could I suggest that you'd really benefit from re-ordering your priorities and first understanding these cars, what they are, how they work, their strengths, weaknesses and limitations, before you start full scale re-designs of major components? Look, everybody has an occasional wild idea they want to run in front of others, and that's fine, what we're here for. But not EVERY idea. You need to know at least enough to do preliminary determinations of viability yourself. Just a friendly suggestion.

[brant]

A lot of fantasy talk. Actually building any one of these ideas is a whole other matter

[veekry9]

Having discovered 'yesterday' that 944/951/968 trailing arm carriy the entire desirable 5-stud apparatus that
accommodates wider wheels and tire combos for Beetles,I merely ask the question,does it fit?
Would it be to any advantage in cost?
Would it be possible to enhance the geometry of the rears and improve anti-squat under braking?
Labour and hacking and welding away to fit the part is not dissimilar to boxing the
914 arm,reinforcing the suspension console and other attempts to render it rigid.
Porsche decided a die-casting/weldment was preferable to the stamping/weldment that the 914 carries.
Difficult?Likely.Fun,Sure.Milling out chunks of steel to carry bearings then welding
into a boxed 14 swing-arm is no less intense work-wise.
I will ask around if anyone on board has ever tried or even measured the part.
What to do with our 914's is on the agenda here.


He could have just left it Stock.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bg_NjmUrk-o

There's always one in the crowd
/
(edit:06/20/16)


Clearly,not only is it possible,it has been done.Kudos.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=396538

/

[Dr Evil]

Saw this
and made
me think
of
this thread (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif)

[veekry9]

Saw this
and made
me think
of
this thread (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif)

Ah.. the Spectacle.
1400+Lbs engine located behind the front axle
makes it a mid-engine,yes?
How do you make an adapter for 2 blowers?
Ask no more,there it is for you to peruse at your
pleasure.
Hemis no less.
Tractable Locomotive Power at 500 rpm.
http://jalopnik.com/5262849/bow-to-the-fur...ed-1970-mustang


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1E_OBPpEVs


What could be cooler down at the A+W?

[scotty b]

Having discovered yesterday that a 951 trailing arm carries the entire desirable 5-stud apparatus that accommodates wider wheels and tire combos for
Beetles,I merely ask the question,does it fit?
Would it be to any advantage in cost?
Would it be possible to enhance the geometry of the rears and improve
anti-squat under braking?
Labour and hacking and welding away to fit the part is not dissimilar
to boxing the 14 arm,reinforcing the suspension console and other attempts
to render it rigid.
Porsche decided a die-casting was preferable to the weldment that the 914
carries.Difficult?Likely.Fun,Sure.
Milling out chunks of steel to carry bearings then welding into a boxed
14 swing-arm is no less intense work-wise.
I will ask around if anyone on board has ever tried or even measured the part.
What to do with our 914's is on the agenda here.


He could have just left it Stock.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bg_NjmUrk-o

There's always one in the crowd

No. You really need to look further
into some of your ideas before even considering them.
The 944 uses the same basic setup
a Beetle or 911 uses.
There is a transverse tube that has internal splines.
Within this tube are torsion bars that
fit into those splines.
On the outboard side the torsion bars are connected to
spring plates
which are then connected to the trailing arms.

Could it be done in a 914 ?
Sure, if you have enough
time money and talent.
Is it worth the effort ?
Hell no.
Why reinvent the wheel.
You are dealing with a car
that is damn near a 50/50 balance
as it came from the factory.
Take care of the short comings
and drive it
rather then reinvent
the wheel for zero gain

[veekry9]

Ah so:
A torque tube with transverse torsion bars.
Not like trailing arm coil spring w/wo anti-roll bar.
To what advantage would anyone consider
a wheel to o/p flange 5-stud conversion?
I suppose the springplates carry the majority
of the load.Would totally change the way the car rolls.
Incidentally,has anyone here done a graphical
analysis of the 914's suspension geometry?
(haven't seen any mention)

Something like this

[veekry9]

By the way,How does this look to you all?

Hate those mirrors, can't stand them ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif)

But i'm guessing you're talking about the dual fog lamps.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

PS: I really like what they did to the taillights on that widebutty.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

Yeah
I won't be doing the massively intense widebody 914 on this trip.
I've kicked the idea around a little in GIMP and it kinda looks
like what the factory might have done if they decided to
install the round sloped headlamps ala 911.
I even tried the trioval shapes similar to Boxster/Cayman.
The job should/could be done by a panelbeater with skill.
The result would look as a 914/911 hybrid genetically.
Not the usual flares.And who can tell what a teener's visual acuity
would prefer?A deviation from bone stock is narp.

The larger(wider) grills purpose it to facilitate the placement of the
coolant/oil exchangers in front of the low pressure area of the
wheelwells.911 sop.If one was inclined to install a sohc/dohc
Porsche V8 why would the rad have to be centrally placed in the
trunk and take space?It's likely true the latest Panamera Ex has
a single rad up front but the 914 is a unique piece of engineering.
In that way you may say I am a purist at heart.



How does this cobra look face for the 914 work?

Some Time Later...

Found the Gimp images,I think I sampled a photo here on 914W.
anyway here they are from '08










Do these pix maintain the Porsche Look?
Or are they butt ugly?
More work to be done for sure,smooth it here or there.
A styling exercise.

[Mark Henry]

By the way,How does this look to you all?

Hate those mirrors, can't stand them ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif)

But i'm guessing you're talking about the dual fog lamps.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

PS: I really like what they did to the taillights on that widebutty.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

Yeah
I won't be doing the massively intense widebody 914 on this trip.
I've kicked the idea around a little in GIMP and it kinda looks
like what the factory might have done if they decided to
install the round sloped headlamps ala 911.
I even tried the trioval shapes similar to Boxster/Cayman.
The job should/could be done by a panelbeater with skill.
The result would look as a 914/911 hybrid genetically.
Not the usual flares.And who can tell what a teener's visual acuity
would prefer?A deviation from bone stock is narp.

The larger(wider) grills purpose it to facilitate the placement of the
coolant/oil exchangers in front of the low pressure area of the
wheelwells.911 sop.If one was inclined to install a sohc/dohc
Porsche V8 why would the rad have to be centrally placed in the
trunk and take space?It's likely true the latest Panamera Ex has
a single rad up front but the 914 is a unique piece of engineering.
In that way you may say I am a purist at heart.



How does this cobra look face for the 914 work?

Some Time Later...

Found the Gimp images,I think I sampled a photo here on 914W.
anyway here they are from '08










Do these pix maintain the Porsche Look?
Or are they butt ugly?
More work to be done for sure,smooth it here or there.
A styling exercise.

I kind of like the grill first pic, but the turn light perspective is all wrong, is the pic stretched?

[synackack]

I've been thinking about a mendeola transmission.... Just need to get kids through college first.


I have a heavily modified 915 transmission housing, with a bunch of ring/pinions pulled together by a very brilliant person 30+ years ago. He said he went though 3 input shafts and countless other parts. 1st-3rd gear above 400lb/ft of torque tends to strip and twist things.

[DBCooper]

Nah, not worth it.

Hey Veek. As a means of introduction could I suggest that you post some photos of YOUR work? Just so we know your background, where you're coming from. If you have something you're especially proud of post it, now's the time to show it off, let's see what you got.

[Mark Henry]

As a means of introduction could I suggest that you post some photos of YOUR work? Just so we know your background, where you're coming from. If you have something you're especially proud of post it, now's the time to show it off, let's see what you got.

Yes that would be nice, with all the questions you're asking we just like to know if you have actually done anything and are not just an armchair engineer...or a 13 year old kid.............or a loon.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)