Hello World.
I posted 1st as a reply to Marcus C6.
How difficult would it be to
fabricate a transaxle that can carry the Ford 9"
ring + pinion?I have viewed Currie's site and see no
mention anywhere online of such a contraption.
A ZF from a Pantera approaches the torque capacity,
the original GT40's box was a Hewland race piece.
(Edit#2:on research,a Colotti tx was used on the 289
mk1's,still in business.)
http://www.colotti.com/
Click to view attachment
(Edit:Later a KarKraft tx was used,perhaps some
production parts)
Are there any foundrymen on the 914W site?
And of course the latemodel Porsche TX's are works of art.
Could there possibly be a demand for such a high load TX?
vic

Why not just buy one of these? The R&D is already done...

http://mendeolamotors.com/trans-proto/inde...7&Itemid=29

Or go with an Audi R10 unit.

What's the point of a ring and pinion that is so much stronger than any transmission that would go behind it? 930 not enough? How much power are you looking to handle, anyway?

A blown/turbo Porsche or other V8 would likely snap any lesser
TX.Anyone here dragging Renegade conversions?
Just how fragile are the transaxles you are using.
A fellow here has an Audi behind an LS he's installing
longitudinally.

Click to view attachment

8k bid on ebay.

Ford 351C torque/HP.

pic

Wot duh fouk!!
lessee:
SBC 400+cid
headers,cam,750holley
largerunner manifold.
TH400 to a chain transfer case
and then to 2!! center sections.
The Mother of Invention.
A ton of work that was likely alot of fun.
How does it go?
Loud fast scary whahoo!
/
(edit:06/09/16)
The guy who built the gates beltdrive irs.
Innovation,ingenuity and audacity.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/087996.html

/

the car went thru many revisions.

http://www.youtube.com/user/914gp/videos

Sick

Yeah
I remember that car
I call it the DragPanzer
mit camo.
2speed PG?
and finally to a DeDion axle
in its last iteration.?

have done many yrs ago.
they are indeed very nice.
I'm thinkin along the lines lately
of what Lamborghini did.
Flywheel forward>trans between passengers>
custom fab/billet/casting transfer case>
driveshaft rearward to 9"custom transaxle.
Its been done before though not in a backyard.

That's an absurd amount of work.

Just get a Mendy transaxle and be done with it. One of the guys on the Bird Board had a tube-frame blown SBC racer with a Mendy. No problems.

The 935s ran 800 HP through a four-speed 930 gearbox (with cooling). How much power were you interested in supporting? What kind of axles did you want to use to try to hold that power?

--DD

if you intend on drag racing a 914...... well good luck!

irs isn't the most conducive to drag racing, to many moving parts at high torque loads [stubs to diff flanges]. to beef these up to stand the forces would be counterproductive to accelerating the rotating masses [the tires, wheels, halfshafts and the diff it's self.

if you dead set try to fab what they use on t/f cars. clutch to torque shaft to diff. you would have to rely on clutch slip to aid the acceleration and launch.

sounds stupid? yep!

medi's cost $$$$ because they can stand the power and have been proven. but they can break just like anything else that gets abused with high instant torque loads.

you want big power and no parts broken..... bring lots of $$$$$

Ferrari 512bb put the boxer 12 over the top of the trans with a geared transfer case on the rear. Very clean but big HP would snap the pinion. The 901 trans only weigh @75lbs so if you are looking at a 9" with a TH you will be adding a serious amount of weight to the r/e. Seems to me a used Camaro would have you down the track years ahead of what you're thinking. But if it's your dream then go for it !

Check this out- Patrick 914

We've asked what horsepower and what application, with no answer. I don't think there is an answer, this is all just speculative hypothetical "what if's".

SBC 400+cid
headers,cam,750holley
largerunner manifold.

With early double hump heads, 10.25:1 compression about 400 HP. Thats the combo I ran in my jet boat.

Read this one held 1100HP. It has your 9"

Andys

looks like a Tim Allen belt sander.

Hmmmm

that would stick out the back of a 914 and more than double the weight of a transaxle.

Yeah.
It really is the pursuit of a less expensive
way to get the power to the ground.
Laying the 9" and 930 R+P next to eachother
on the bench they look similar.
The availability of Ford parts at the recyclers
makes them the cheaper/pound.
That said,the problem begins as you attempt to apply
the 9" to a mid setup.
You have seen here the many inventive ways to do so.
The Italian way has been very effective.Simple really.
Get some sand,make a mould and pour the aluminum...
then machine it.
You can then call it a F,L,M,A-R,fiat etc.
It is no small undertaking of design and manufacture.
You would begin by mocking-up the actual parts in plywood
bulkheads to develop the layout.
A one-off prototype could be made economically to test
the viability of your design.
So as you approach the end of the exercise you may discover
it is an expensive one-off.However if your pal Al wanted one..

So you don't have an actual application? There's no 914 anywhere in the story? This is just a theoretical bull session?

The application of course is the radical
modification of the next 914 to come my way.
This 72 is a cherry,so an unloved rustpile
will be the recipient of Frankenstein's Love.
Namely a Cayenne V8 mit kompressor to
thrash a Renn here or there.
I recently missed out on a 4.5L core for
1.9k.There is a plan in motion though
barely perceptible.

Click to view attachment
It may be travelling back in time
Click to view attachment
E/B 401 x 427 June
Kids in the car passing,pointing.
"Look Mommy,
that man is going to spend a fortune
on a emotional attachment to an old
Porsche 914"

Hello all.
I recalled this guy whose work is really
interesting.From the Corvair world,his solution is elegant.
The last post of inquiry at Corvairforum was a week ago.

Has anyone here made a purchase of this modded Borg-Warner?

http://aboxer.tripod.com/





Linn Richardson at (425) 485-9807.
Or send inquiries by e-mail to:
aboxer@juno.com

So let me get this straight, you're going to cut and hack into a pretty good shell so you can make a drag car out of it?

I'm all for each person making their car their own, but I don't follow you on this one.

Negative PMan
That endeavour is far over the horizon,am currently restoring/converting
72 cherry to be DD.
The whole Rennmeister idea came to me when I first saw this.
Not to mention GT40 ambition since the 60's when I first saw them.
Along with Jag D-types,Lotus..ad infinitum.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deJab7Xo0T4



vic

Hello
Has anyone here attempted to adapt 944/951/968
transaxles into our types 914?
I've seen V8's in front of 901/914 with some measure
of success though I understand the boxes will snap
at any moment.Definitely the big 4's box can handle
the torque of a V8 with less stress.The attractive part
for me is the low cost involved.



Click to view attachment

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Granted,there appear to complications re the ipshafts height over the output
centreline(centerline).
A tx flop may lower the engine's crank where a large wheel and tire combo
could be used.
Anyone here ever try this Porsche part in a 914?

First off there is no provision for a starter ........

Hmmm
No starter?
Not an unsolvable problem as a hi-torque
starter is required.More work,yes,6 speed
possible.I'm buying or building an adapter
for the Yankee-6 anyway.I believe someone here
has slipped in a boxster6speed.I'll
look into the dimensions soon.
The price may be right after all.

The 944 transaxle is almost the same as the VW Fox. Same case/bell housing and setup for a clutch with a proper main shaft.

The Audi/VW tansaxle family has not changed much in shape over the last 20 years.

My Audi 5 speed and my Cayman S 6 speed have the same bell housing and bolt patterns. Almost the same as the old 944 tranny.

You should look in England (ebay UK) for a Passat TDI FWD transaxle. Same bell housing and better gearing for a V8. Since it comes from a diesel, it can handle some extra torque. The Passat TDI trannies run around $200-$500 in the UK. TNT will ship here in 4-5 days for $275. The best would be the 01E but that will set you back $2k and it is a euro only tranny.

5 speed left, 6 speed right

Click to view attachment

6 speed

Click to view attachment

Man, I so want to mess with one of those, Mike. When I find the time and $$

This is great info.
Things I need to know before I
get around to making an adapter pattern.
Apparently the iron case of the 944/951
imparts a measure of strength and stability
to the geartrain.Just read a thread on gt40's
on this very subject.Audi is the easy way that
deprives the box of the malleable iron case.
This box won LeMan in it's class.A street car's
lighter loads makes the Audi box sensible.

Allo.
After some searching about,I rediscovered
the thread about an LS/Audi conversion.
(LS1 Conversion, A Retrospective Build Thread)
By andys

Doh!Correction.
Different thd,different car.no find,more searching later.
by the way, andys,immaculate work.

And Lo and Behold,the Audi O1E also has the iron
gearcase,much like the 944/951/968.
Other than destructive testing,how could I determine
the load capacity of the respective boxes?
Of all the candidates,the Audi O1E appears the most
readily available.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LMr3OBe2fc..._detailpage#t=5
Using a 944/951 TX behind a LS V8.

The Original GT40 used a Hewland or Colotti T37 TX
then later 7L's a custom KarKraft T44 as a small production.
The problem looking for a solution is the same as then,
in 64-65.

http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt40-tech-engin...aft-t-44-a.html

The entire purpose is of course,not exploding your TX on the
application of full throttle or any random time.

http://www.rbttrans.com/about.html

For those who require V8 Torque capabilities.

Years ago this fella needed a 5spd ford
toploader,so he built one,then 2...

http://www.libertysgears.com/

another success story.

Finally found the pix of the thd to which I was referring.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Thought about this mod some time ago,even took pix of it.
To,like,you know,modify.


Click to view attachment

I'm really liking this out of the box solution to the Need for"big fat tires
and everything".Looking at the front fenders you can see he's making room
there too.Somewhere on a drive I have the Gimped look I tried to make the
914 all growed up.You know,like,with round,sloped headlamps,ala 911/928/968.
I'll post it when I find it in the labrinth of the artdrive.Note:This is only for those
who suffer no queasyness when hacking into a 914's unibody when rusted.
Typically,both the front and rear get the "treatment"and effort is made to blend
the resultant discontinuity with the doors,because messing with the doors is taboo.
When the factory tacked the gt flares on,it was simply an effort to expedite the
tire installation for homogulation rules.A stylist/designer may have had a subtley
different take on it.A good example might be the Goodrich 924Turbo LeMan cars.
Coming soon.

By the way,How does this look to you all?

Click to view attachment

A few minutes work with the Gimp.

Another

Click to view attachment

Hate those mirrors, can't stand them ...

But i'm guessing you're talking about the dual fog lamps.


PS: I really like what they did to the taillights on that widebutty.

Yeah
I won't be doing the massively intense widebody 914 on this trip.
I've kicked the idea around a little in GIMP and it kinda looks
like what the factory might have done if they decided to
install the round sloped headlamps ala 911.
I even tried the trioval shapes similar to Boxster/Cayman.
The job should/could be done by a panelbeater with skill.
The result would look as a 914/911 hybrid genetically.
Not the usual flares.And who can tell what a teener's visual acuity
would prefer?A deviation from bone stock is narp.

The larger(wider) grills purpose it to facilitate the placement of the
coolant/oil exchangers in front of the low pressure area of the
wheelwells.911 sop.If one was inclined to install a sohc/dohc
Porsche V8 why would the rad have to be centrally placed in the
trunk and take space?It's likely true the latest Panamera Ex has
a single rad up front but the 914 is a unique piece of engineering.
In that way you may say I am a purist at heart.


Click to view attachment
How does this cobra look face for the 914 work?

Click to view attachment

Edit:Jan 12 15
Seems to work on this Cobra,what does Shelby know.

From experience, your inlet need to be only half that size. I have just the bumper cut and I struggle to get the engine hot enough. Unless the water pump stops working.

It only becomes a low pressure area in the wheel wells when the outlet is larger than the inlet. Usually double the inlet size is a good place to start.

^This. When you have an inlet bigger than your outlet you get flow issues.

Ah you see?
The objective of the dual rad install is to avoid the big hole in front.
filling the trunk with bulkheads and ducting,thereby rendering the
utility of the design moot.The 911 has the very same 2 cooler approach
by necessity of purpose.Are there any wassermensch here who have made
a doppel cooler setup?Not simpler or expedient to merely drop a vette rad
in and be done with it.Having modified the 914 to the degree of a V8,what
class and against what Porsche would you be competing?
The 2cooler approach has it's own difficulties,however when the lid is lifted,
it would look normally stock,with a spare.There is plenty of room for 2.

Click to view attachment
Right About Here

Click to view attachment
Cut out the Hole

There will always be another mousetrap design from Acme.

That's basically where the headlight lives when it's not popped up. How are you dealing with that again?

--DD

There's plenty of space under the bucket to duct air into the wheel well ...

I considered a fixed lamp of more recent design,a flipup headlamp was always considered a fad,even then.It was what the market could bear in '69.
An extra feature that came with the car at a great manufacturing cost.
The initial "automotive journalists" review of the car was uncomplimentary
almost unreasoned.The point of the graphical experiment is just to test the
merits of one idea or another.The contention that we are free to say what if.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Small dual radiators will be a PITA for a v8. If you were going turbo 4 or similar then it could work. But you need some STUPID efficient radiators to make some small ones work for a v8.

Undoubtedly difficult and not without hassles.And the area involved would have to
sufficient for the application,whether V8 or otherwise(can anyone say BMW V12?)
For the express purpose of retaining the trunkspace as designed.
Aircooled to water circulator must make some compromises but
why that one?Around the problem not through or over.
I'm figuring a way to add the pair of rads outboard in front of the rear
wheelwells in a compact way,and thereby reduce the additional mass up front.
Some ducting in and out with the requisite efans and voila! an effficient
cooling system for a highpowered install,moving the air.
Down low,jnside the wheelbase,whether in front of the rears or behind the
fronts has to be more effective at reducing the cars polar moment.

I've had a look at the vids posted and have been reduced to drooling.
Mmmm..V8,Camaro,Corvette.And from what I can see,It's a 914 TX that all
that torque is going through.
Trans cooling?
Intermediate plate?
Sideplate?
Output flanges?
Close ratio?
Final gearset ratio?
You see,when I take to the track in the future,I would be pissed if the TX failed on the first try.
.A large slick of 90wt along with various chunks strewn across a hairpin exit
would harsh my day.It happened when Ford went to LeMan in the 60's
unprepared and brokedown.

http://rennlist.com/forums/944-turbo-and-t...ild-thread.html
https://www.youtube.com/user/garcia171/videos

Here is a V8 running a 951 TX,and there is no doubt that steps were taken
to ensure the survival of it.Not cheap but certain.
Click to view attachment
Certainly Better Suited for V8 Torque.
Proven Track Use

Anyone here ever attempt there 944 trailing arm install?
I heard tell that it's a thing they do in Europa with their
Bugs.Some work in adapting for sure,though i'm not certain
to what advantage other than a complete brake cv and axle
install.Output flanges to 944 inner cv's needed.

Click to view attachment

You need a bunch more parts to use the 944 trailing arms. It looks like they use spring plates or some other extra arms for lateral support. That one joint isn't going to provide any kind of resistance to lateral movement; the 914 semi-trailing arm has a wide base for the mounts to the chassis of the car. So you'll be adding extra parts, and fabricating, and so on and so on.

And by that time, why not ditch the whole suspension and do something like make a custom multi-link setup or graft on a Lotus suspension like Britain did?

--DD

Those trailing arms are late 951 and with some effort they'll bolt on to VW bugs. You're right, Dave, they require springplates. For a bug there's some weight saving, but the real advantage is being able to bolt on 951 calipers, which of course negates those weight savings. That and to tell people you have "real" Porsche suspension under your bug, but neither of those things is any real advantage for a 914. The geometry of those arms is ALL wrong for a 914, so they won't fit unless you intend to cut them apart and re-weld them in the correct length and orientation and some kind of trailing arm to replace the springplates. They're so different that that will be major major surgery. Definitely won't gain enough in weight reduction or anything else to make that amount of work worthwhile.

You've been suggesting one wildly impractical idea after another. Could I suggest that you'd really benefit from re-ordering your priorities and first understanding these cars, what they are, how they work, their strengths, weaknesses and limitations, before you start full scale re-designs of major components? Look, everybody has an occasional wild idea they want to run in front of others, and that's fine, what we're here for. But not EVERY idea. You need to know at least enough to do preliminary determinations of viability yourself. Just a friendly suggestion.

A lot of fantasy talk. Actually building any one of these ideas is a whole other matter