 Watercooled VW / Audi motor swaps?, it IS a VW afterall, right?.... |
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| 2mAn |
 Nov 26 2013, 12:23 AM
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#1
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trying to see how long I can go without a 914  Group: Members Posts: 487 Joined: 14-November 13 From: Westchester (Los Angeles) Member No.: 16,644 Region Association: Southern California  |
My searching hasnt gotten me very far. Im sure most of you hate the idea, and thats fine. I am in the research phase and havent done anything yet, but I am close to purchasing the 914 and want to have a solid gameplan prior to purchasing the vehicle.
SO whos done it, I know of a 20v turbo here on the board, but havent seen any others. Thanks -Simon |
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Replies(1 - 19)
| SirAndy |
Nov 26 2013, 02:18 AM
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#2
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,658 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(2mAn @ Nov 25 2013, 10:23 PM)  it IS a VW afterall, right? Actually no, the 914 was produced and sold by a independent company called the "VW Porsche Vertriebsgesellschaft". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) |
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| jimkelly |
Nov 26 2013, 06:05 AM
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#3
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Delaware USA Group: Members Posts: 4,969 Joined: 5-August 04 From: Delaware, USA Member No.: 2,460 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
most conversions here are either
Porsche 6 and 914 trans chevy v8 and 914 trans Subaru eng and trans do what you want and have the skill for, but suby/suby is (on paper) hard to beat. I think there is an ls1 conversion package in the classifieds right now. http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...=220685&hl= jim |
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| Mark Henry |
Nov 26 2013, 06:46 AM
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#4
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that's what I do! Group: Members Posts: 20,065 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Port Hope, Ontario Member No.: 26 Region Association: Canada |
IIRC the engine sits too high or is too long.
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| dlestep |
Nov 26 2013, 08:45 AM
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#5
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I am smilin'... Group: Members Posts: 890 Joined: 15-January 08 From: Sunrise Florida Member No.: 8,573 Region Association: South East States |
There have been a few, here and there.
Only because they didn't pay attention to everyone's bitchin'. http://youtu.be/AAP8BbKtSYg |
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| Mike Bellis |
Nov 26 2013, 08:58 AM
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#6
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Resident Electrician Group: Members Posts: 8,345 Joined: 22-June 09 From: Midlothian TX Member No.: 10,496 Region Association: None 
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I think it's a great idea to install a 20v turbo VW/Audi engine... Somebody should do that... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)
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| dlestep |
Nov 26 2013, 09:03 AM
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#7
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I am smilin'... Group: Members Posts: 890 Joined: 15-January 08 From: Sunrise Florida Member No.: 8,573 Region Association: South East States |
QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Nov 26 2013, 09:58 AM) I think it's a great idea to install a 20v turbo VW/Audi engine... Somebody should do that... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) I know, Right ! Especially since it was sold through Porsche/Audi dealerships and raced with Porsche/Audi all over everything during that time period. Seems more correct than stuffing a Japanese whatever in it. |
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| jimkelly |
Nov 26 2013, 09:09 AM
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#8
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Delaware USA Group: Members Posts: 4,969 Joined: 5-August 04 From: Delaware, USA Member No.: 2,460 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
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| Cap'n Krusty |
Nov 26 2013, 09:51 AM
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#9
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Cap'n Krusty Group: Members Posts: 10,794 Joined: 24-June 04 From: Santa Maria, CA Member No.: 2,246 Region Association: Central California |
A late 90s TDi would make a nice swap ....................... More HP, a LOT more torque, stupendous fuel mileage.
The Cap'n |
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| 2mAn |
Nov 26 2013, 12:18 PM
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#10
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trying to see how long I can go without a 914 Group: Members Posts: 487 Joined: 14-November 13 From: Westchester (Los Angeles) Member No.: 16,644 Region Association: Southern California |
QUOTE(SirAndy @ Nov 26 2013, 12:18 AM) QUOTE(2mAn @ Nov 25 2013, 10:23 PM) it IS a VW afterall, right? Actually no, the 914 was produced and sold by a independent company called the "VW Porsche Vertriebsgesellschaft". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) I was joking (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) I like the 20v motor, because as you know 1.8t can nevar loooooosseeeee!!!!!! I know a guy in Eastern Wa did an ABA -16v, but cant remember his SN right now. I have a different setup that I plan on doing. I like the older, simpler motors. Probably because I come from the A1 chassis.... Now lets just see how long it takes Kennedy to get back to me |
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| Dave_Darling |
Nov 26 2013, 12:29 PM
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#11
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914 Idiot Group: Members Posts: 14,990 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Silicon Valley / Kailua-Kona Member No.: 121 Region Association: Northern California
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QUOTE(Cap'n Krusty @ Nov 26 2013, 07:51 AM) A late 90s TDi would make a nice swap ....................... More HP, a LOT more torque, stupendous fuel mileage. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) |
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| championgt1 |
Nov 26 2013, 12:29 PM
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#12
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Don't embarrass me Filmore! Group: Members Posts: 2,680 Joined: 3-January 07 From: Tacoma, Washington Member No.: 7,420 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
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| 2mAn |
Nov 29 2013, 01:04 PM
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#13
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trying to see how long I can go without a 914 Group: Members Posts: 487 Joined: 14-November 13 From: Westchester (Los Angeles) Member No.: 16,644 Region Association: Southern California |
So Ive been chatting via PM with rohar who has done this swap before and he suggested something I was trying to avoid, but its a much more logical choice for those considering swapping this engine in the car; using a Passat/ Audi transmission VS a Kennedy adapter
The cost is very similar, where a Kennedy adapter is ~$400-$500. The Passat/ Audi FWD transmission can be found for around the same price. Also, because you can shop around and find the transmission in boneyards now, you can get one for less than the price of the adapter. My quick searching on car-part pulled up many in the $300-$500 range. The transmission code to look for is one of the following DHW, DVX, EHV Im sure there are plenty of other ones that will work, as Mike Bellis started with a Passat transmission IIRC and now is using a Boxster transmission The part that confused me (and Im waiting for a clarification) is that rohar suggested using a transmission from a " 1.8t Variant (wagon) because the output flanges match up to 944 . Do a 5 lug conversion using 944 stubs and a pair of sway away half shafts and you're done. " This makes the conversion simpler in that there is no custom parts and forces you to convert to 5lug, which is not a bad thing. I'd like to add more knowledge to this thread so when others decide they want to do something similar this can help guide them in the right direction. |
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| rohar |
Nov 29 2013, 01:50 PM
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#14
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 924 Joined: 25-October 08 From: spokane Member No.: 9,685 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(2mAn @ Nov 29 2013, 11:04 AM) So Ive been chatting via PM with rohar who has done this swap before and he suggested something I was trying to avoid, but its a much more logical choice for those considering swapping this engine in the car; using a Passat/ Audi transmission VS a Kennedy adapter The cost is very similar, where a Kennedy adapter is ~$400-$500. The Passat/ Audi FWD transmission can be found for around the same price. Also, because you can shop around and find the transmission in boneyards now, you can get one for less than the price of the adapter. My quick searching on car-part pulled up many in the $300-$500 range. The transmission code to look for is one of the following DHW, DVX, EHV Im sure there are plenty of other ones that will work, as Mike Bellis started with a Passat transmission IIRC and now is using a Boxster transmission The part that confused me (and Im waiting for a clarification) is that rohar suggested using a transmission from a " 1.8t Variant (wagon) because the output flanges match up to 944 . Do a 5 lug conversion using 944 stubs and a pair of sway away half shafts and you're done. " This makes the conversion simpler in that there is no custom parts and forces you to convert to 5lug, which is not a bad thing. I'd like to add more knowledge to this thread so when others decide they want to do something similar this can help guide them in the right direction. Sorry, slightly before morning coffee when I responded to you. I'm working too many cars and my brain doesn't work without caffeine. I was thinking 911 stubs not 944. My mistake. 944 half shafts may be just long enough. I haven't measured them. My mess is using the large output flanges with adapaters so I've got no choice but custom half shafts. That said, I think there may be a way to use 944 stubs and flanges, but I haven't proven it yet. Just grabbed a new '44 parts car and haven't torn it down yet, stand by for more on that front. Oh, and the other thing about the Audi/VW trannies, the boxster shifters/cables bolt right up for about $100 if you shop hard. No fabrication needed. |
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| gothspeed |
Nov 29 2013, 02:14 PM
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#15
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,539 Joined: 3-February 09 From: SoCal Member No.: 10,019 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(dlestep @ Nov 26 2013, 06:45 AM) There have been a few, here and there. Only because they didn't pay attention to everyone's bitchin'. http://youtu.be/AAP8BbKtSYg Wow, they did a very good job on it ......... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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| Mike Bellis |
Nov 29 2013, 02:21 PM
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#16
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Resident Electrician Group: Members Posts: 8,345 Joined: 22-June 09 From: Midlothian TX Member No.: 10,496 Region Association: None
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Some Audi transmissions have a 100mm flange the mate with a Porsche CV. Some have a 130mm tripoid flange that only fits an Audi/VW CV. 5 speed Boxster flanges pop right into the tranny to retrofit. My Cayman S tranny has 108mm flanges. If I were to machine spacers (doughnuts) to sit in place of the 100mm flange bearing, I could pop those into the Passat tranny too.
From my research, a DUK coded tranny would have the best gearing for our 2000lb car. If you were running low HP then a standard Passat EZG will work fine. I have used an EZG on mine and the gearing would be perfect for an autocross weapon. |
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| rohar |
Nov 29 2013, 02:58 PM
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#17
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 924 Joined: 25-October 08 From: spokane Member No.: 9,685 Region Association: None |
Given the engine at play, you could go with the Audi 4000/Fox 5 speed. The flanges match up with the same diameter as the 901 flanges. Since it's a low displacement turbo lump, the torque should be fairly low. The internals are similar to the 012 transverse tranny that I'm sure you're familiar with. Same advantages/disadvantages. Biggest problem is that limited slips just don't exist and you'd have to fab your own shifter/clutch solution. With a little ingenuity, I'd bet that you could even used the stock half shafts with bug CVs.
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| 2mAn |
Nov 29 2013, 03:44 PM
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#18
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trying to see how long I can go without a 914 Group: Members Posts: 487 Joined: 14-November 13 From: Westchester (Los Angeles) Member No.: 16,644 Region Association: Southern California |
I think Im going to have to go with the 4000 transmission. I was looking at Mikes thread and the pattern looks different. I dont think they made a Fox transmission in 5 speed either so that just leaves a FWD 4000
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| rohar |
Nov 29 2013, 03:50 PM
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#19
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 924 Joined: 25-October 08 From: spokane Member No.: 9,685 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(2mAn @ Nov 29 2013, 01:44 PM) I think Im going to have to go with the 4000 transmission. I was looking at Mikes thread and the pattern looks different. I dont think they made a Fox transmission in 5 speed either so that just leaves a FWD 4000 The pattern on Mike's transmission doesn't match any motor exactly, it's an 012. It matches all VAG motors except the VR6 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) No matter what you mate it to, it'll have holes that aren't used. It has both the I5/V6/V8 pattern as well as the I4 pattern. The latter Foxes had 5 speeds, it's the same tranny that's in the 4000. I'd buy a few of them though. They're cheap now a days and I've got a feeling you're gonna go through a couple. |
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| Mike Bellis |
Nov 29 2013, 04:26 PM
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#20
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Resident Electrician Group: Members Posts: 8,345 Joined: 22-June 09 From: Midlothian TX Member No.: 10,496 Region Association: None
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I always thought it was neat the way all the Audi based trannies look very similar at the bell housing. Looks like lots of interchangeability.
012 Passat on left, 466 Cayman S on right...  Audi 4000  Porsche 944  Audi 01E (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/12v.org-10496-1385763965.1.jpg) |
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