Paul Walker of Fast and Furious dead today Options

[sixnotfour]

Don't buy a Sports Car, buy a Prius, If your at all addicted to speed

[worn]

PCA pretty much flat out condones doing 10+ over on public roads.

Huh? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I joined PCA in 1986. Every driving event I've ever attended was quite the opposite of this. In fact, shortly after moving here (Intermountain Region) the "Tour Chair" was let go (as in fired) when his Moab tour achieved speeds in excess of a buck-twenty. I've led over 1/2 dozen PCA tours and I'm signed up to lead more in Monterey... I know not of what you speak. In my safety talk, I informed all of my tour groups that we would probably be going "under" the speed limit. My little speech is "We're ambassadors for Porsche and we're on their (the host city) turf. Drive like you're supposed to."

Are we reading the same Pano? Or, is it because there's a radar detector ad in the magazine that they all of the sudden "condone doing 10+ over on public roads"?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

The point missing is that the sole purpose of the object being advertised is breaking the law undetected. To me the device is like a fake id or burglary tools, and it shows up in the flagship spot of my club. Personally, i am ashamed of that. As i would be were my bread made encouraging kids to drift around town. The Porsche is now being made with breaking the law in mind since they are so fast, and that certainly is a problem to be dealt with, and a complex one. But with 75% of drivers thinking that they have considerably above average driving skills, well i drive a very small car. Even at minus twent, though it will be a ford then. The cars here look like salty ghosts.
I am really sorry if this offended you, sad that i opened my mouth.

[euro911]

It's not just Porsche, it's any vehicle manufacturer, and they don't necessarily need to be high performance vehicles. Several TV commercials depict driving well over the normal speed limits.

Lots of 'sporty' car commercials do it. I think the first time I really noticed was way back when Nissan started airing 300 'Z' commercials where the guy with the gravely voice stated 'you own the road' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Remember, Mazda had their - zoom, zoom campaign?

I'm sure that aggressive driving and speeding have been around ever since cars started being built, but for advertisers/manufacturers to broadcast such actions only increases ones propensity to speed on our public streets - by saying hey, it's OK.

As for performance accessories, many if not all manufacturers limit their liability by stating that their products are for off-road vehicles. When we used to design and manufacture custom motorcycle components (chassis, tree systems and air suspension systems), they were sold with a written disclaimer that they were for 'show use only'. This was to absolve us of any personal injury liability issues.

[Jake Raby]

So its okay to watch a movie about street racing and triple digit speeds; but if a magazine states that going 10 MPH over the posted speed limit it's evil?

Wow.

Stupidity kills many more people per day than speed does.

This post has been edited by Jake Raby: Jan 4 2014, 10:36 PM

[EdwardBlume]

So its okay to watch a movie about street racing and triple digit speeds; but if a magazine states that going 10 MPH over the posted speed limit it's evil?

Wow.

Stupidity kills many more people per day than speed does.

I agree, its 100% stupidity.

We will always be fascinated by tragedy because we are living out our own.

[euro911]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Any media that portrays doing something unsafe, or illegal, really isn't in our [society's] best interests. However, even law enforcement looks the other way sometimes.

I never have checked to see if the F&F or similar movies, or violent (Borne Identity, etc.,) movies carry any disclaimers.

Some producers do state disclaimers at the beginning of documentaries - something like "Professionally trained drivers on a closed-course track", or "Don't try this at home, kiddies" comes to mind.

Jake, as a manufacturer of high performance components and assemblies, I would think you have some sort of liability disclaimer as to real world usage?... no? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[carr914]

PCA pretty much flat out condones doing 10+ over on public roads.

Huh? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I joined PCA in 1986. Every driving event I've ever attended was quite the opposite of this. In fact, shortly after moving here (Intermountain Region) the "Tour Chair" was let go (as in fired) when his Moab tour achieved speeds in excess of a buck-twenty. I've led over 1/2 dozen PCA tours and I'm signed up to lead more in Monterey... I know not of what you speak. In my safety talk, I informed all of my tour groups that we would probably be going "under" the speed limit. My little speech is "We're ambassadors for Porsche and we're on their (the host city) turf. Drive like you're supposed to."

Are we reading the same Pano? Or, is it because there's a radar detector ad in the magazine that they all of the sudden "condone doing 10+ over on public roads"?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

The point missing is that the sole purpose of the object being advertised is breaking the law undetected. To me the device is like a fake id or burglary tools, and it shows up in the flagship spot of my club. Personally, i am ashamed of that. As i would be were my bread made encouraging kids to drift around town. The Porsche is now being made with breaking the law in mind since they are so fast, and that certainly is a problem to be dealt with, and a complex one. But with 75% of drivers thinking that they have considerably above average driving skills, well i drive a very small car. Even at minus twent, though it will be a ford then. The cars here look like salty ghosts.
I am really sorry if this offended you, sad that i opened my mouth.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Sorry Porsche has Always made Sports Cars - If you haven't gone 10 Over, you need to sell you car & Take the Bus, Gus.

Do you Think Corvette, Viper, Nisson GTR, Audi R8, McLaren, etc that have 600+ HP were designed to do 55?

Do you remember when Escort was a Sponsor of SCCA Racing? Do you think their Target audience was the Racers in the Paddock?

[horizontally-opposed]

Wow. Some folks seem to be establishing highly unrealistic moral standards—standards that anyone would be hard-pressed to live up to. "Blood money," "glorification of this and that," etc—along with some incredible leaps—are being thrown around here.

I've got bad news for you: If you, like me, are a U.S. citizen, then there are some ugly truths to face (various wars—you be the judge—as well as inaction in critical moments, not to mention grave injustices served up to Native Americans who were here first) along with the stuff we can and should be proud of. But make no mistake: If we're going to own the good, we have to own the bad—which makes us complicit. You can be sure some in the world view us as beneficiaries of far worse crimes than anything portrayed in F&F movies (please note, I am not defending those movies, nor drifting on a public road!). Again, I'll leave that up to you to be the judge.

By the standards ventured here, any media or storytelling that involves anything "bad" or "dangerous" should be a no-go. If these are deemed reasonable standards, I guess I'd better not read police crime novels anymore, or watch Band of Brothers again, or read the Holy Bible, for that matter. Is that the world we want to live in? Maybe we ought to start burning books? Or are most humans intelligent enough to watch/read/view/think about something, possibly enjoy it as entertainment, draw their own conclusions, and then, you know, make responsible decisions?

I'm with T.C.—better take the bus, Gus.

pete

[horizontally-opposed]

The point missing is that the sole purpose of the object being advertised is breaking the law undetected. To me the device is like a fake id or burglary tools, and it shows up in the flagship spot of my club. Personally, i am ashamed of that. As i would be were my bread made encouraging kids to drift around town. The Porsche is now being made with breaking the law in mind since they are so fast, and that certainly is a problem to be dealt with, and a complex one. But with 75% of drivers thinking that they have considerably above average driving skills, well i drive a very small car. Even at minus twent, though it will be a ford then. The cars here look like salty ghosts.
I am really sorry if this offended you, sad that i opened my mouth.

Okay, I hear you on your first point. Not sure I agree that a company's right to promote a product that can be legally used in most states should be limited, but I can respect your view and appreciate it. Your next points are harder to swallow, especially the one about Porsche. In Germany, there are still roads with no speed limits, and the Nürburgring is a toll road, as well. The cars are designed with all of that in mind, as well as occasional track use, back roads, superb daily usability, and top active/passive safety features. Are cars getting too fast? I've been thinking about that myself lately, but I suppose this was an argument in the 1960s, and 1980s, and...now.

You raise a good point about 75% of drivers, and a survey years ago suggested that 85% of Americans felt they were the best driver in their family. Gulp. Personally, I feel we have a much bigger mountain to climb in advancing our driver training and education than we do in limiting the speed of a tiny number of cars on the road and the (largely) responsible enjoyment of those who own them.

Finally, for the record, I don't "flat out condone 10+ over on public roads," and I'd love to know where Pano suggests anything like that. Frankly, there are times when 10 or even 30 under the limit is the fastest one can go safely. Traffic, weather, hazards, vehicle condition, driver error, speed...safety is related to a number of factors—which is why I have always found blanket statements about speed to be, well, ignorant. One survey demonstrated that the fastest 5% and the slowest 10% of traffic were at the highest risk for accidents—meaning "going with the flow" was the safest way to travel. Here in CA, that can be anywhere from 5-25 over the limit (on the freeway). I often can't believe how fast LA traffic moves. I've seen minivans doing 80-90 mph—while traveling with the flow of traffic! Whether the "flow" is at 70-75 in a 65 or 80-85 in a 65, this presents an interesting decision for a driver: safety first, or letter of the law?

While I don't use a radar detector, I can see why some choose to. As always, YMMV.

pete

[euro911]

If you're referring to my post(s), I was simply pointing out that those conditions exist. If you ever wondered why the fabric of our society has become what it has, My bet is that mass media has more than likely played the biggest role in shaping it. Acknowledging that isn't taking anyone's freedom to choose what they will away.

I am not judging anyone for what most of us do with our cars. I do drive over the posted speed limit at times, but not on downtown streets crowded with other vehicles or pedestrians (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

As for the other issues, totally different topic ... and maybe a little overboard (burning books) ??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[horizontally-opposed]

If you're referring to my post(s), I was simply pointing out that those conditions exist. If you ever wondered why the fabric of our society has become what it has, My bet is that mass media has more than likely played the biggest role in shaping it.

I might take that bet. Spent a lot of time studying mass media. While it can (and should) come in for criticism aplenty, I'm not sure about the "biggest role." But it's food for thought...

As for the other issues, totally different topic ... and maybe a little overboard (burning books) ??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

LOL! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Sorry, was a veiled reference to one of my favorite scenes in one of the great American movies, Field of Dreams.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ki0xz2qrkk (skip the first 20 seconds)

If you haven't seen it since back in the day, well worth a watch—and I'm no Costner fan. I think it stands toe to toe with Citizen Kane...there are probably 10+ stories going on at once. And people think it's "a baseball movie."

[Evil914]

Sad event but...

Did anyone else do the math on his girlfriend, you know the 23 year old that he has been with for the last 7 YEARS!

23-7= pedophile

funny how that is just being totally overlooked

I don’t think these comments are appropriate for this tread.

uh..why? We are on a Porsche board talking about a dead celebrity. Not sure how my comment is more out of line then anything else already going on here as this whole thread started off topic. I just read one of the links posted here and commented on the thing that jumped out at me.

Granted 16 is a grey arera for a lot of people, it is still illegal in a lot of places including California. He may have been a great guy, i dont know, that fact just struck me as off.

I can say this though, I am 33 at the moment and could not imagine dating a 16 year old, or 18, or even some in their early 20s for that matter. I know girls that age, and to me they look/act like children. I could not relate.

I also have a daughter, not sure I would be cool with that situation even if the guy did own a Carerra GT.

As a Porsche enthusist, I regret the car was lost.
As a human, I morn the loss of life.
As someone with math skills, im going to point out this 33 year old guy was dating a 16 year old minor.

other then that I couldnt give 2 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif)

Hell,You living in Utah, (Edited by the non-Mormon, Agnostic admin from Utah. We have a policy on religion being discussed here. Please follow it.) Momma always said twasn't nice to speak ill of the dead.........

[ConeDodger]

If you're referring to my post(s), I was simply pointing out that those conditions exist. If you ever wondered why the fabric of our society has become what it has, My bet is that mass media has more than likely played the biggest role in shaping it.

I might take that bet. Spent a lot of time studying mass media. While it can (and should) come in for criticism aplenty, I'm not sure about the "biggest role." But it's food for thought...

As for the other issues, totally different topic ... and maybe a little overboard (burning books) ??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

LOL! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Sorry, was a veiled reference to one of my favorite scenes in one of the great American movies, Field of Dreams.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ki0xz2qrkk (skip the first 20 seconds)

If you haven't seen it since back in the day, well worth a watch—and I'm no Costner fan. I think it stands toe to toe with Citizen Kane...there are probably 10+ stories going on at once. And people think it's "a baseball movie."

I'd take that bet as well. More likely mass media is a reflection of the fabric of society. But what do I know? My lack of comprehension is astounding. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[horizontally-opposed]

Stupidity kills many more people per day than speed does.

+1

[rhodyguy]

religious beliefs, whether you agree with them or not, had absolutely NOTHING to do with this collision. penalty flag for for off topic religious content, 10 yard penalty, and a loss of down. btw, i'm not a member of the LDS church. where the Fuch did i put my bong?

[rick 918-S]

Wow! This thread is all over the place. It started out as a post about a couple guys dying in a Porsche. One happens to be in movies.

Mostly people, remember your manors. Have some respect for the death of humans and some compassion for the lives they left behind.

If your a fan of drama please find another topic. Everyone has skeletons. Let's leave them in the closet now. There is nothing to gain by dragging a persons life out through the mud after their gone.

Some people don't have a life worth discussing. There past is riddled with terrible deeds. Inflicting pain and suffering on others. Here are a couple of guys that elevated themselves to a place where they could help others beyond an individual effort. But for one laps of judgment now are dead in a gruesome and horribly painful way. The scares this will inflict on their family will out live this generation. Lets bury the drama for a couple Porsche guys that in the end did good things for others.

Anyone on a Porsche forum that say's they haven't driven way beyond their headlights is fibbing. Let's face it. We are here because we love cars and the thrill it brings us. This tragedy won't change the way I drive my car but I may be a little more aware of the consequences.

914 guys are some of the most caring and kind natured friends you can have. Were a little off track here. Let's bring it in boys. Man huge! Hand shake arm around the back.

[Eric_Shea]

I am really sorry if this offended you, sad that i opened my mouth.

No Worries. I'm not offended and you're probably not sad that you opened your mouth (if you are, you shouldn't be). It's a free country and you're entitled to express your opinion. On an open forum as such, I'm entitled to express mine. Just pretend we're having a beer across the table at the "Ale Asylum". No harm no foul. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) My PCA promotes a minimum of 2 track days per year at MMSP, multiple autocrosses on safe closed courses and very safe tours and rally's on public roads.

Mike Valentine is allowed to advertise his products because of the same 1st amendment right you have to express your opinions in this open forum. Some countries shut down Internet access to their citizens... and control the media. If "we the people" or PCA for that matter, shouldn't allow him his rights; who should allow us ours? Let common sense be your guide. Exotic car owners tend to like the aspect of speed. Hence the 3.2 going in your 914. A good marketing manager at any corporation knows this and targets that audience. It sounds like you're a little off target but hey, they gave it a valiant(ine) effort. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I'm with Rick (and Jake... and Forrest Gump's Momma). Let's bring it in. None of us get off this ride alive. Be good to one another. Stupid is as Stupid does. Somebody did something stupid, be it in a Yugo or a Carrera GT, and there's a couple of charred bodies because of it.

[euro911]

If you're referring to my post(s), I was simply pointing out that those conditions exist. If you ever wondered why the fabric of our society has become what it has, My bet is that mass media has more than likely played the biggest role in shaping it.

I might take that bet. Spent a lot of time studying mass media. While it can (and should) come in for criticism aplenty, I'm not sure about the "biggest role." But it's food for thought...

As for the other issues, totally different topic ... and maybe a little overboard (burning books) ??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

LOL! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Sorry, was a veiled reference to one of my favorite scenes in one of the great American movies, Field of Dreams.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ki0xz2qrkk (skip the first 20 seconds)

If you haven't seen it since back in the day, well worth a watch—and I'm no Costner fan. I think it stands toe to toe with Citizen Kane...there are probably 10+ stories going on at once. And people think it's "a baseball movie."

I'd take that bet as well. More likely mass media is a reflection of the fabric of society. But what do I know? My lack of comprehension is astounding. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

My take is that mass media amplifies a topic, just like a public address system allows those at the rear of a stadium to hear a speech that they otherwise may not be able to hear.

If it weren't for mass media, an incident that occurred in some small hick town wouldn't be seen/heard/read by millions of others, some of who might decide to duplicate the 'original' incident.

I try to view it from a broad perspective. I see where it has set up a cycle, kind of like the chicken and the egg. It's hard to decide exactly where it started. On one hand, it can be said that 'art imitates life', but when a life incident is exposed to the masses, life can also imitate art.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[nathansnathan]

What happened to two men in a Porsche could have happened to a number of us. I have driven the Alien cross country at triple digits more than once. All it would take is a deer or a faulty wheel torqueing or trash in the road. We all make decisions that we could end up regretting. Sometime we get a second chance. Sometimes we don't. My condolences to the families they left behind and the loss of their good charity work. We can all learn something from this. Be safe out there gents.

Just the weekend before this happened, right after Cars and Coffee, my friend of mine let me drive his 997 Carrera S. We took it to a fairly desolate road through a business park setting near there, it being a weekend. The area looks really similar. My friend urged me to see 'what it's got'. I kept letting off because I'd never driven a pdk before and he wanted me to shift it with my foot down. It's hard to say how fast I was going. 85 and 115 are pretty close on the speedo and I didn't have much time to be looking down. I did have my foot fully down in 2nd and was surprised at the smell of the tires just going mostly in a straight line and not really breaking hard - I wasn't peeling them or anything. I could barely get it to lose grip except once I was able to get the tail out a little doing a u turn. At one point my friend suggested we find a parking lot and do some donuts, but somehow I knew that would be too much fun and said we probably shouldn't.

I was really shocked when I saw what had happened (heard about it from this thread actually) as I actually like those movies - they remind me of my brother who used to run a low rider shop when the first one came out - I've watched them a bunch as background noise doing my build, even. I haven't been able to watch those movies since this happened, actually. It may be stupid, to be bothered by the death of someone I never really knew, but I am bothered by it, I guess. I can't watch them without thinking how screwed up it is that he died over something like a bot dot, it seems unfair. Other times, like the quote people keep posting, I feel like he would have wanted it that way, to die in a special edition Carerra GT hypercar going in excess of 100mph, wrapped around a tree in a ball of fire - there is an element of badass to that, at least. Better than going out like Bruce Lee or Elvis or John Lennon...

[messix]

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