OT: 2003 Boxster S engine replacement Options

[ThePaintedMan]

Nothing has magically changed about a water pump,
Water pumps still die.
I wish they would just give up and use electric pumps from now on, and make it easy to get to, and sim to replace....then we can just replace them every 50k and stay safe.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) And with everything else going electric (power steering, a/c) I'm sure it won't be long till till water pumps are too. If nothing else to cut down on parasitic loss. Plastic on engines sucks. Any Ford owner with the 4.6 or 5.4 can tell you how bad of an idea the phenolic intake manifold is.

However, every American car I've ever worked on had steel impeller vanes. And Jake's point is well taken about the potential for damage if one of those fails. But, every one of those water pumps I've seen fail has either begun weaping beforehand, giving plenty of warning, or (once) seized completely which threw the serpentine belt and the owner had enough of a jolt to convince them to pull over immediately. Piece of cake to replace as long as the owner doesn't keep driving into the ground with no serpentine belt.

[HAM Inc]

I do sympathize with the mechanic's position on this. My parents have owned an import shop since 1972. That's where I cut my teeth, so I tend to see how the work I do relates to shop owners and the guys turning the wrenches.

It does seem like a crazy proposition to pull the engine down to chase that f.o.d. out of the coolant system. But bear in mind that modern cylinder head cooling jackets are quite sophisticated and often very confined. This is actually part of the effort to keep emissions (especially cold running) under control. You have to think of fod in the coolant as potentially dangerous as fod in the oiling system.

My advise to my shop customers is this; when a waterpump job comes in for any modern engine with plastic impellers before accepting the job lay the facts out and make it clear that just swapping the pump without accounting for every blade is risky. Some shops will let the customer make the choice. Busy shops who don't want to deal with the shit sandwich that follows the worst case scenario when the customer opts to chance it just send them down the road if they don't want it done right.

It's easier to CYA before than after.

[jesiv]

Obviously inspecting the water pump on a Boxster is a challenge. My past experience with water cooled motors the wp always seemed to start leaking before the wp failed. I had no leaking prior to in my opinion an unannounced failure. Is the new pattern they don't generally give it advanced signs of immanent failure and do the impellers grenade as well? Over the last five years of owning my Boxster I can't remember one person relating any stories re water pumps but heard numerous fubr stories re ims

Regards

James

[Dr Evil]

Wonderfully informative (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[ThePaintedMan]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) This is one topic about the M96 that doesn't get brought up enough. Everyone knows about the IMS, but this is the first I've heard about the potential impeller/intermix issue. It'll be something to look out for in the future. Thanks for educating me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[mepstein]

Jake, Woody - I wonder if it's possible each of you is seeing a different group of Porsche owners. Woody. could your group own newer cars than Jake or be the type of people who bring their car to the dealership vs independent? Annual maintainance vs catastophic falure?

When my 100K mile, 8 year old Durango engine failed, the dealer never saw it. (Dealers will only sell a new engine and claim it's not a known issue) My independent mechanic changed the engine.

[Woody]

Jake, Woody - I wonder if it's possible each of you is seeing a different group of Porsche owners. Woody. could your group own newer cars than Jake or be the type of people who bring their car to the dealership vs independent? Annual maintainance vs catastophic falure?

When my 100K mile, 8 year old Durango engine failed, the dealer never saw it. (Dealers will only sell a new engine and claim it's not a known issue) My independent mechanic changed the engine.

Its possible but on my end we service plenty of early cars as well as the newer ones. We still do a bunch of aircooled work. I just had a 914 in a few weeks ago to rebuild the pedal cluster and replace the oil cooler seals. Few months before then I did a top end rebuild on a 993. We sublet the machine work out. Early Boxsters and 996s are our bread and butter.

[walterolin]

Excellent thread, I think a number of us are actively thinking about a newer mid engine P-car and this is great information.

[timothy_nd28]

Well the verdict is in looks like at a minimum a blown head gasket as coolant is dripping from exhaust. Porsche crate motor installed with two year unlimited mile warranty 23k out the door. Not sure I want to dig into a 97k mile motor with a blown head gasket without a plan

What would you do if you were me...

The dealer diagnoses was a failed head gasket. Imagine if you had some mechanic just replace the head gasket, you would be in the same boat after all that work.

[jesiv]

I received more info on options/pricing
Independent
3k for just doing one head
5k for both heads

Dealer
2k pull engine and determine failure point
8-10k top end rebuild

So I am thinking of having the top end rebuilt. Seems like a happy medium and financially doesn't put the car under water too bad. Obviously much cheaper than a new car. My thinking is to have it done at the dealership. Thoughts?? Also thinking of reaching out to Porsche North America for some assistance. Anyone ever have any success doing this? My thinking here is the dealer never mentioned any potential downside when the water pump was replaced. Again thoughts...

Regards

James

[Woody]

I received more info on options/pricing
Independent
3k for just doing one head
5k for both heads

Dealer
2k pull engine and determine failure point
8-10k top end rebuild

So I am thinking of having the top end rebuilt. Seems like a happy medium and financially doesn't put the car under water too bad. Obviously much cheaper than a new car. My thinking is to have it done at the dealership. Thoughts?? Also thinking of reaching out to Porsche North America for some assistance. Anyone ever have any success doing this? My thinking here is the dealer never mentioned any potential downside when the water pump was replaced. Again thoughts...

Regards

James

Its worth a shot. If you have serviced the car regularly with a dealership PCNA is more likely to help. On the other hand, considering this is not a known point of failure with PCNA they may not do anything.

[jesiv]

I purchased the car from the dealership with the Porsche CPO and have had it regularly serviced by the dealer. So I will keep my fingers crossed. No really expecting any help but have nothing to lose. Any ideas on the type of argument I should make?

Regards

James

[ThePaintedMan]

I purchased the car from the dealership with the Porsche CPO and have had it regularly serviced by the dealer. So I will keep my fingers crossed. No really expecting any help but have nothing to lose. Any ideas on the type of argument I should make?

Regards

James

Would the dealership allow you to send the heads to Len at HAM? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) Then they could put everything back together.

[rfuerst911sc]

Here's a scary thought. Lets say you purchase a used Porsche and it has 90,000 miles on it. Service records show the water pump has been replaced twice. As a buyer you have no way of knowing whether the original pump or the two after it had a catastrophic failure or not. Sounds like a time bomb waiting to go off ! Jake in that scenario what would be the best approach ? The reason I ask is I have been toying with the idea of purchasing a used Boxster or Cayman and wondering is there any way the consumer can protect themselves ?

[jesiv]

Who is Len at HAM? If I am paying the full ride I would think so. However I don't know? What is your thinking here?

Is the top end rebuild a good idea or is throwing good money after bad at 97k. Is a new top end only going to cause the bottom end to fail

Regards

James

[Randal]

Who is Len at HAM? If I am paying the full ride I would think so. However I don't know? What is your thinking here?

Is the top end rebuild a good idea or is throwing good money after bad at 97k. Is a new top end only going to cause the bottom end to fail

Regards

James

Len Hoffman, Hoffman machine.

http://www.hamincgroup.com/blog/

I would highly recommend Len for any head work.

[0396]

Even stand up guys can fall behind on rent

OT, how does this comment relate to the discussion at hand (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

[pt_700]

many thanks to jake and woody for their contributions to this highly informative thread. i suspect many of us have been watching prices for used boxsters drop into the realm of attainability but, the potential for expensive repairs weighs heavily.

one thing that's popped into my relatively uninformed mind, would some sort of screen or filter in the cooling system be feasable or would it be too restrictive?

also, are other engines susceptible to cracking problems caused by debris in the coolant passages?

[Woody]

I purchased the car from the dealership with the Porsche CPO and have had it regularly serviced by the dealer. So I will keep my fingers crossed. No really expecting any help but have nothing to lose. Any ideas on the type of argument I should make?

Regards

James

I would just present the facts and see what happens. Sometimes its surprising how PCNA comes through. Good luck.

[DBCooper]

I've never heard of this either, and suspect it's a pretty rare occurrence.

one thing that's popped into my relatively uninformed mind, would some sort of screen or filter in the cooling system be feasable or would it be too restrictive?

I couldn't speak for Porsche, but industrial diesel engines in critical applications all use coolant filters.