My new 2.0 won't start, Need help!! Options

[kkid]

Hi guys,

I spent last few weeks to prep on my newly acquired 2.0 and it's finally in the car! But she doesn't wanna wake up.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) I know our Bay has been cold lately...but today is beautiful!!!

It turns over, has fuel pressure around 30psi when cranking(20psi soon after when the key turned off), static timing done after points gap adjusted, all the electrical connections checked I think, and what else???

Actually there're at least 2 concerns I can think of. When I got the motor, the dizzy rotor was pointing somewhere around#4 position when the TDC mark was showing in the round window. So I moved the gear in order for rotor to point #1 as I confirmed the valves were loose. But wondering if I did it correctly. I took the gas tank out as I installed stainless fuel lines. The tank was sitting in my garage for about a week or so then it developed some rust. So I cleaned inside with rust remover. But I might not have rinsed it well enough. New fuel filter still looks clean after uncountable numbers of attempt of starting the motor. New fuel sock is in the tank.




So I am stuck now (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

What do you all think I screwed?

Thanks in advance,

kkid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[kkid]

... When I got the motor, the dizzy rotor was pointing somewhere around#4 position when the TDC mark was showing in the round window. So I moved the gear in order for rotor to point #1 as I confirmed the valves were loose. But wondering if I did it correctly.

kkid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

You'll see the TDC marker in the window for every revolution of the crank, not just for cylinder #1. Make absolutely sure you're at TDC on cyl # 1. The fact that you said it was pointing at cyl # 4 and you had to rotate go the dizzy drive gear 180° has me wondering if you were watching TDC for cyl # 4 instead of # 1 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)


For a spark check, pull one of your spark plugs out and lay it where you can see it. Keep the hi tension lead attached and ground the threaded portion with a good-sized alligator clip and jumper cable, then have an assistant crank the motor while you watch for spark.

I rotated the drive gear counter clockwise for about 90 degrees from there while I was checking the cylinder #1 valves looseness.

[kkid]

Thank guys for the advice.

I will check the spark today while my friend is here.

Actually, my daughter told me to wait till Christmas.

kkid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[kkid]

I'm putting my money on the distributor drive gear is misaligned/improperly located. If the timing is close and you have fuel and spark, it should at least cough...

So I set the flywheel at TDC for #1 first then crawled under and checked to see if the valves are closed with some slack on the arms. Yes, there're some slack on both valves. Then I moved on to the #3 if the both valves're open with no slack on the arms. Yep, there is no slack and tight. So they're open?

Could I call it good?

[kkid]

One easy trick is to just pull a plug wire, plug in a good new spark plug, hold the threads of said plug to the block....Or some good ground.... And have someone crank the starter while you watch the spark.

That bugger should scare you with a nice fat blue/white spark. If it is weak and yellow then we have a troubleshooting track to go down.
[/quote]

I tried your method and had a decent spark. Can't tell if it's white, blue or yellow but it didn't look weak. Did only on #2 plug wire. Should I try on all other terminal wires too?

Thanks,

kkid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[kkid]

Checked on the injector to see if it's working. Tried on #1 injector while cranking. I placed a paint spray cap underneath the said injector and got some gas in it. But I see some gas leak from #2 injector even though electrical plug was not attached. Is this normal???

[dlee6204]

But I see some gas leak from #2 injector even though electrical plug was not attached. Is this normal???

Nope. The injector is likely gummed up a little bit and is not closing fully.

[kkid]

But I see some gas leak from #2 injector even though electrical plug was not attached. Is this normal???

Nope. The injector is likely gummed up a little bit and is not closing fully.

Thanks, I think the gas in the tank should be contaminated.

It looks like I'm gonna have to take the tank out and head out to my local radiator shop.

kkid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[kkid]

But I see some gas leak from #2 injector even though electrical plug was not attached. Is this normal???

Nope. The injector is likely gummed up a little bit and is not closing fully.

Thanks, I think the gas in the tank should be contaminated.

It looks like I'm gonna have to take the tank out and head out to my local radiator shop.

kkid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[euro911]

So I set the flywheel at TDC for #1 first then crawled under and checked to see if the valves are closed with some slack on the arms. Yes, there're some slack on both valves. Then I moved on to the #3 if the both valves're open with no slack on the arms. Yep, there is no slack and tight. So they're open?

Could I call it good?

Good.

Install your dizzy with Cyl#1 at TDC and snap some pix of the dizzy with the cap off. Show us where the little notch is in the dizzy's body is and where the rotor is pointed.

Leaking injector - bad (and a fire hazard)

Gas doesn't last for shit anymore

[Old Yella]

Hi
I always examine for the simple solution,

1. Check that TDC lines up with no 1 cylinder.

2. get someone to crank the motor and first check spark is coming from the coil by holding the coil wire a few mm off the block. If there is spark check the no 1 lead.
3. If there is spark at the number one lead pour a small amount of fuel down the intake manifold , if it fires and runs for a second or two. if no spark.

WARNING---do not pour fuel down the manifold whilst turning the motor over. If it is not properly tuned and it back fires it will ignite the fuel in the container you are holding. No need to explain, that's is bad news.

4. If no spark check the points gap.

5. Spark but no fire , check fuel supply.

I just pulled my own tank and the screen and filter were clogged. I undertook the Por 15 fuel tank restoration process and bought a new screen and filter plus changed all the lines and fuel hose.

Just my 2c worth on top of the other good advice.

Oh, forgot. If you pull the plug from number 1 and think you are at TDC all you need to do is put something soft like a plastic straw into the plug hole if the piston is at the TDC the straw will only go into the cylinder about 2 inches if not the straw will go in about 6 inches, just saves a lot of valve checking etc. Must not use anything hard like a screw driver.

[kkid]

So I set the flywheel at TDC for #1 first then crawled under and checked to see if the valves are closed with some slack on the arms. Yes, there're some slack on both valves. Then I moved on to the #3 if the both valves're open with no slack on the arms. Yep, there is no slack and tight. So they're open?

Could I call it good?

Good.

Install your dizzy with Cyl#1 at TDC and snap some pix of the dizzy with the cap off. Show us where the little notch is in the dizzy's body is and where the rotor is pointed.

Leaking injector - bad (and a fire hazard)

Gas doesn't last for shit anymore

Here goes!!




Photo of leaky injector is currently unavailable. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[kkid]

Hi
I always examine for the simple solution,

1. Check that TDC lines up with no 1 cylinder.

2. get someone to crank the motor and first check spark is coming from the coil by holding the coil wire a few mm off the block. If there is spark check the no 1 lead.
3. If there is spark at the number one lead pour a small amount of fuel down the intake manifold , if it fires and runs for a second or two. if no spark.

WARNING---do not pour fuel down the manifold whilst turning the motor over. If it is not properly tuned and it back fires it will ignite the fuel in the container you are holding. No need to explain, that's is bad news.

4. If no spark check the points gap.

5. Spark but no fire , check fuel supply.

I just pulled my own tank and the screen and filter were clogged. I undertook the Por 15 fuel tank restoration process and bought a new screen and filter plus changed all the lines and fuel hose.

Just my 2c worth on top of the other good advice.

Oh, forgot. If you pull the plug from number 1 and think you are at TDC all you need to do is put something soft like a plastic straw into the plug hole if the piston is at the TDC the straw will only go into the cylinder about 2 inches if not the straw will go in about 6 inches, just saves a lot of valve checking etc. Must not use anything hard like a screw driver.

Thanks for dropping by and leaving the check list.

1. Check that TDC lines up with no 1 cylinder.
Done and looks good.
2. get someone to crank the motor and first check spark is coming from the coil by holding the coil wire a few mm off the block. If there is spark check the no 1 lead.
Done and good.

3. If there is spark at the number one lead pour a small amount of fuel down the intake manifold , if it fires and runs for a second or two. if no spark.
Done but motor did not start this way.

4. If no spark check the points gap.
Done and looks good.

5. Spark but no fire , check fuel supply.
Will pull the tank and have it cleaned at my local radiator shop, then change the sock, filter and rubber lines. (+install other clean set of injectors)

*If the fuel pump is contaminated and possibly gummed, what would be the best way to clean at home?

*Should we take the oil in the case to be already contaminated by fuel after a number of attempts to start the engine?


Thanks,

kkid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Bob L.]

That is not the flywheel, it's the cooling fan. That IS a timing mark which may or may not indicate TDC. I think It may indicate 27 deg BTDC. The timing mark on the flywheel is viewed through a hole where the trans and engine cases come together, from underneath.
Assuming both pictures were taken without rotating the crank AND assuming that is the 27 deg BTDC mark then It looks to me (not an expert) that your timing is retarded 27 deg when its not running. That may keep it from running.

So I wonder... If you rotate the dizzy clockwise 27deg, to match up with the timing mark on the fan, would it start???
At least I think it's clockwise (not an expert).

Good luck!

[euro911]

Zero is TDC. The hash mark on this fan is 27° BTDC. For a 2.0L, you'll want approx 34° at 3500 rpm. Depending on a couple factors, 34° may be too much advance. You don't want any pinging, so be prepared to retard if necessary, then make a new mark for your specific requirements.




Read this Pelican article on timing ... Click here

[kkid]

That is not the flywheel, it's the cooling fan. That IS a timing mark which may or may not indicate TDC. I think It may indicate 27 deg BTDC. The timing mark on the flywheel is viewed through a hole where the trans and engine cases come together, from underneath.
Assuming both pictures were taken without rotating the crank AND assuming that is the 27 deg BTDC mark then It looks to me (not an expert) that your timing is retarded 27 deg when its not running. That may keep it from running.

So I wonder... If you rotate the dizzy clockwise 27deg, to match up with the timing mark on the fan, would it start???
At least I think it's clockwise (not an expert).

Good luck!

You're right! It's a cooling fan not a flywheel that's we're looking at. On my 2.0, I believed the TDC is painted in white and timing mark is a red skinnier mark. How's yours, BOB?

Speaking of a flywheel, if we see the engraved mark(TDC) from the window underneath where the cases are mated, it means the TDC for both #4 or #2. Am I understanding this correctly?

Thanks,

kkid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Bob L.]

Mine has only one mark for 27deg BTDC. I have read there is some variation in these marks depending on the engine size/Mfg date... I set my timing to show the red line in the notch at 3500 RPM, fully advanced.

I believe the flywheel mark in the little window should be TDC for #1 or 3 depending. It will alternate, one then the other.

[kkid]

Pulled the gas tank today and sent it to a local radiator shop in my area.

Will watch it to be cleaned tomorrow. So I can take it home and install as soon as I pick it up.



kkid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[David_S]

[quote name='kkid' date='Dec 16 2013, 01:23 AM' post='1971104']
[/quote]


3. If there is spark at the number one lead pour a small amount of fuel down the intake manifold , if it fires and runs for a second or two. if no spark.
Done but motor did not start this way.

[/quote]
Im certainly no expert here, but this really sounds like a timing issue. If you put a small bit of fuel into the intake manifold, you should have had something happen, even if it was a backfire from one end or the other, unless your timing is simply way out of whack !! Just my $0.02 worth !!

[Java2570]

Check the ground wire on the points plate in the dizzy to make sure it's got good connection; engine will not fire if it's bad.
And double check your CHT connection to make sure it's tightly connected at the wiring harness. I've had both of those little dumb things happen to me in the past and it took me too long to figure them out.....

[TheCabinetmaker]

The zero on your fan is tdc. That and the notch in the distributor body that the rotor points to is correct. The timing for a djet is at the 27* mark on the fan like Euro's pic shows. Never 34 with djet.

Try pouring more than "just a little" fuel in the manifold then crank it again. If you have fire at the plugs, and fuel in the manifold, it should start.