First Impressions, Sebring Turn 17, and Florida chatter, Sebring Drivers Event Options

[Jetsetsurfshop]

T. C. give it up !...while probably not 10,000 laps I've got more than a few..with some significant finishes....both Porsche and otherwise and I don't know a good line yet for the 914 track car I'm putting together....help a brother out.....sketch it...I'll darn sure try out .

NICE JOB ! ....17 must be one of the most vague turns in road racing....my best times were when I used it as part of the front straight...you and Shane ..work for a turn in off the back straight that lets you get on the gas sooner..turn one is passing heaven for the bold .. I envy you guys!

I probably have more than 10,000 Laps at Sebring. Turn 17 has a 1,000 different Lines and it will be debated for Decades which is the Best One. It is a Multi Apex Turn that is very Bumpy. It really depends on the type of car you are driving. An Open Wheel Car can hug the Inside, but it is extremely Bumpy there and any other can't do it unless you were set-up just for that one corner (which would be foolish).
Some cars can go wide, middle etc. The Other thing to think about because you will experience so many lines, it is easy to Pass people with less experience later.

I take 911s different than I do 914s. I think I have an ideal line for a 914 (ask ThePaintedMan) but I would need to show you.

I am actually interested in hearing your take on turn 17 too. Maybe we should start another thread, T.C. Turn 17 wisdom!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

OK, OK!

Here is a Go-Pro Video from last year with George (ThePaintedMan) Driving and me instrucing. I think this was the 2nd or 3rd Session of the Day, so George had listened to my Line Instructions. Now George's Old Engine was running like SuperCrap that day so we had no speed (which is actually good for learning lines). I searched for this Video but didn't review the Whole thing again).

I will tell you that George's 1st lap thru 17 is pretty much on!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBh7ZDJuJyI


As you are coming down the long BackStretch, I don't really Brake at the Brake Cones at all. I lift off the Gas at about the 1st Brake Cone, lightly Brush the Brakes and do a Downshift between the 2nd & 3rd Brake Cones, then dive to the Inside Concrete Wall to make a Straight Line for about a 100 Yards. Here is where I Brake Harder (but threshold), shift into 3rd and Turn. You then can arc out getting the Apex without playing the wheel except for the Bumps.

No highjack intended here guys. How do you post a video like this?
Shane

[carr914]

Shane, do you mean put a YouTube Video Straight to the Post?

Easy, Peasy!

On the YouTube Page of any video there is a Share Button - Click That. It will give you Box with a Link - don't use that, but instead right above that will be an Embed Button - Click That. That will give you a Box different Link - Copy That One.

Then on your 914World Post

Type in

[ ] with youtube in the middle

then Paste your YouTube Video - I cut all but the Embed Link Code, usually a combonation of 11 letters & numbers

then Type in

[ ] this time with /youtube in the middle



That will Embed it in your Post

[Seabird]

As you are coming down the long BackStretch, I don't really Brake at the Brake Cones at all. I lift off the Gas at about the 1st Brake Cone, lightly Brush the Brakes and do a Downshift between the 2nd & 3rd Brake Cones, then dive to the Inside Concrete Wall to make a Straight Line for about a 100 Yards. Here is where I Brake Harder (but threshold), shift into 3rd and Turn. You then can arc out getting the Apex without playing the wheel except for the Bumps.

Thanks T.C. Your line sounds pretty close to what I "try" to do. A couple questions if you don't mind.

1. When you lift at the first cone what speed do you estimate your doing?

2. Using the big bump a mid turn as a reference are you inside or outside when you are arcing through 17? I know there is a lot of bumps but there is one particularly big one.

3. At track out, how close are you to the outside tire wall? A lot of folks say if your not tracking out to the tires your leaving speed on the table.

Thanks,

Miguel

[Jetsetsurfshop]

Shane, do you mean put a YouTube Video Straight to the Post?

Easy, Peasy!

On the YouTube Page of any video there is a Share Button - Click That. It will give you Box with a Link - don't use that, but instead right above that will be an Embed Button - Click That. That will give you a Box different Link - Copy That One.

Then on your 914World Post

Type in

[ ] with youtube in the middle

then Paste your YouTube Video - I cut all but the Embed Link Code, usually a combonation of 11 letters & numbers

then Type in

[ ] this time with /youtube in the middle



That will Embed it in your Post

My teenage staff just showed me how, I'm such a noob (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[carr914]

As you are coming down the long BackStretch, I don't really Brake at the Brake Cones at all. I lift off the Gas at about the 1st Brake Cone, lightly Brush the Brakes and do a Downshift between the 2nd & 3rd Brake Cones, then dive to the Inside Concrete Wall to make a Straight Line for about a 100 Yards. Here is where I Brake Harder (but threshold), shift into 3rd and Turn. You then can arc out getting the Apex without playing the wheel except for the Bumps.

Thanks T.C. Your line sounds pretty close to what I "try" to do. A couple questions if you don't mind.

1. When you lift at the first cone what speed do you estimate your doing?

2. Using the big bump a mid turn as a reference are you inside or outside when you are arcing through 17? I know there is a lot of bumps but there is one particularly big one.

3. At track out, how close are you to the outside tire wall? A lot of folks say if your not tracking out to the tires your leaving speed on the table.

Thanks,

Miguel

#1 - Depends on the Car. George's Car was way down on Power - I bet we were doing about 75. In my 914-6 2.5 Twin-Plug, I would say about 125 (due to the Gearing). If I was in a Higher Speed Car (a GT2RS), I would Brush the Brakes a bit more, but still do the same entry - the rest of the line would be different.

#2 - There are a bunch of Bumps there - tough to say, but there is a Black Mark (it might be Expansive Sealer) where Slabs of Concrete come together. That is about mt Turn in and I'm just inside it.

#3 - Most of the time, probably 10-15 from the wall. If you are on a Bonzai Speed Lap, you be close to the Wall. But you have to be careful, as there is a lot of clag & dirt build-up the closer you get to wall - you get on those marbles and you can slide & pancake the wall. How close you get is determined by your Turn-In and Steering Angle (& Bumps). Obviously you are on it, but if you master the Apex (which is very tough) you aren't drifting towards the wall, just using the Track.


The other problem with 17 is when you are mixing it up with other cars. Remember there a 1,000 different lines and chances are they aren't using the one you are on. It is very easy to follow somebody else's line - I've seen one car follow another right into the tire wall etc.right before the bridge with no contact between the cars. Then you have the Dive-Bombers, The Cars that are coming into the Pits

[Jetsetsurfshop]

The other problem with 17 is when you are mixing it up with other cars. Remember there a 1,000 different lines and chances are they aren't using the one you are on. It is very easy to follow somebody else's line - I've seen one car follow another right into the tire wall etc.right before the bridge with no contact between the cars. Then you have the Dive-Bombers, The Cars that are coming into the Pits

Don't follow anyone on there line. Turn 17 will get you!!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[Jetsetsurfshop]

Those photos look great. I'm ordering mine tonight. There's some good ones of me and Joe on 16. I signed up for Chin April 26-27th. I can't get enough (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) time!
Shane

Funny I was just going to write to you about that. Registering now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Seems like Chin has a good deal with track time for dollar and a lot of events.

Finishing up the fuel cell install this weekend.

Miguel

I missed this post somehow.
Come and join me and hope for great weather.
Shane

[Seabird]

Those photos look great. I'm ordering mine tonight. There's some good ones of me and Joe on 16. I signed up for Chin April 26-27th. I can't get enough (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) time!
Shane

Funny I was just going to write to you about that. Registering now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Seems like Chin has a good deal with track time for dollar and a lot of events.

Finishing up the fuel cell install this weekend.

Miguel

I missed this post somehow.
Come and join me and hope for great weather.
Shane

I just realized this am committed to roasting a pig that day (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) Going to register for June 7th instead. Planning on going to that one?

Miguel

[Seabird]

#1 - Depends on the Car. George's Car was way down on Power - I bet we were doing about 75. In my 914-6 2.5 Twin-Plug, I would say about 125 (due to the Gearing). If I was in a Higher Speed Car (a GT2RS), I would Brush the Brakes a bit more, but still do the same entry - the rest of the line would be different.

#2 - There are a bunch of Bumps there - tough to say, but there is a Black Mark (it might be Expansive Sealer) where Slabs of Concrete come together. That is about mt Turn in and I'm just inside it.

#3 - Most of the time, probably 10-15 from the wall. If you are on a Bonzai Speed Lap, you be close to the Wall. But you have to be careful, as there is a lot of clag & dirt build-up the closer you get to wall - you get on those marbles and you can slide & pancake the wall. How close you get is determined by your Turn-In and Steering Angle (& Bumps). Obviously you are on it, but if you master the Apex (which is very tough) you aren't drifting towards the wall, just using the Track.


The other problem with 17 is when you are mixing it up with other cars. Remember there a 1,000 different lines and chances are they aren't using the one you are on. It is very easy to follow somebody else's line - I've seen one car follow another right into the tire wall etc.right before the bridge with no contact between the cars. Then you have the Dive-Bombers, The Cars that are coming into the Pits

#1 Roger that.

#2 You mean this one?:
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/dl.dropboxusercontent.com-16683-1397313647.1.png)

#3 Roger, roger.

Yeah its a stones turn for sure. Such a fun track!

Thanks for the pointers. Would like to get a ride a long one day if your up for it.

Miguel

[Jetsetsurfshop]

Those photos look great. I'm ordering mine tonight. There's some good ones of me and Joe on 16. I signed up for Chin April 26-27th. I can't get enough (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) time!
Shane

Funny I was just going to write to you about that. Registering now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Seems like Chin has a good deal with track time for dollar and a lot of events.

Finishing up the fuel cell install this weekend.

Miguel

I missed this post somehow.
Come and join me and hope for great weather.
Shane

I just realized this am committed to roasting a pig that day (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) Going to register for June 7th instead. Planning on going to that one?

Miguel

Kids get out of school that weekend. Ill have to see when it that weekend gets closer. June 21-22 NASA for sure. You?
Anyone else??
Shane

[Seabird]

Kids get out of school that weekend. Ill have to see when it that weekend gets closer. June 21-22 NASA for sure. You?
Anyone else??
Shane

Yeah Nasa for sure. Will talk to Luis maybe he'll bump me to group 3 so we can lap together.

[tooms351]

I just got Sunday off from work, gonna sign up for Chin! Can't believe its not sold out.

[ThePaintedMan]

Honored that TC thought the video was good enough to use as an example.

I think his advice is spot on as usual and logical. T17 has different lines, much of it dictated by the type of car being driven. This is something that a lot of the instructors at the PCA miss because they focus so much on 911s.

I really like TC's line as a starting point for any car though, as it allows any car a simpler turn in, so whether you have a really high power front engined monster or a FWD Civic, it gives you less to worry about. Transition off the throttle, point the car and then brake in a straight line, also effectively lengthening out the back stretch and maximizing the amount of time on the throttle. If you've turned in and are braking in a straight line, then the bumps and the wall aren't as scary. Then the second apex becomes the point just after the bridge where the grass meets the track.

Here is telemetry from my fast lap in Chumpcar last year. I was using the line that TC showed me, and although the GPS fidelity isn't great, you get a picture of what the line looks like.

[carr914]

#1 - Depends on the Car. George's Car was way down on Power - I bet we were doing about 75. In my 914-6 2.5 Twin-Plug, I would say about 125 (due to the Gearing). If I was in a Higher Speed Car (a GT2RS), I would Brush the Brakes a bit more, but still do the same entry - the rest of the line would be different.

#2 - There are a bunch of Bumps there - tough to say, but there is a Black Mark (it might be Expansive Sealer) where Slabs of Concrete come together. That is about mt Turn in and I'm just inside it.

#3 - Most of the time, probably 10-15 from the wall. If you are on a Bonzai Speed Lap, you be close to the Wall. But you have to be careful, as there is a lot of clag & dirt build-up the closer you get to wall - you get on those marbles and you can slide & pancake the wall. How close you get is determined by your Turn-In and Steering Angle (& Bumps). Obviously you are on it, but if you master the Apex (which is very tough) you aren't drifting towards the wall, just using the Track.


The other problem with 17 is when you are mixing it up with other cars. Remember there a 1,000 different lines and chances are they aren't using the one you are on. It is very easy to follow somebody else's line - I've seen one car follow another right into the tire wall etc.right before the bridge with no contact between the cars. Then you have the Dive-Bombers, The Cars that are coming into the Pits

#1 Roger that.

#2 You mean this one?:
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/dl.dropboxusercontent.com-16683-1397313647.1.png)

#3 Roger, roger.

Yeah its a stones turn for sure. Such a fun track!

Thanks for the pointers. Would like to get a ride a long one day if your up for it.

Miguel

No - Farther towards the top left in the picture

[Seabird]

Bear with me here folks this is just how I learn, thanks.

T.C., I think this is the line you are describing based on your turn in at the expansion joint. If so it is definitely different from mine, I am going to have to try this next time. If it is there are some good reference points on the ground that can be used.

Arrows indicating turn in points.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/dl.dropboxusercontent.com-16683-1397484442.1.png)

[carr914]

Bear with me here folks this is just how I learn, thanks.

T.C., I think this is the line you are describing based on your turn in at the expansion joint. If so it is definitely different from mine, I am going to have to try this next time. If it is there are some good reference points on the ground that can be used.

Arrows indicating turn in points.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/dl.dropboxusercontent.com-16683-1397484442.1.png)

Yep, that is it!

T.C.

[Jetsetsurfshop]

Hey Miguel,
You should change the title of this thread!
Shane

[Jetsetsurfshop]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKpuO-mm8Io


Some turn 17 stuff with Harry Lap Timer.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[Seabird]

Your right this has certainly got away from the original post..I might need to learn how to change the thread title...

I like that clip from Harry's Lap Timer. They finally released it for Android; I am going to have to switch from Tracmaster.

Do you think you can post a few clips from turn 1? I would like to see your line and speed through there.

Miguel

[Jetsetsurfshop]

Your right this has certainly got away from the original post..I might need to learn how to change the thread title...

I like that clip from Harry's Lap Timer. They finally released it for Android; I am going to have to switch from Tracmaster.

Do you think you can post a few clips from turn 1? I would like to see your line and speed through there.

Miguel

Harry works pretty good. It just makes me want to do a AIM system with a Smartycam!
I'll do a turn one video too. I feel its way more "straight forward" then 17. I have an issue with down shifting to forth and slowing down too much be for my turn-in point. You will see it in the video.
Shane