Stuck 6 cyl head, No, its not stuck there.... Options

[Bob L.]

Anyone that would do that to any animal is a sick fuck and should seek professional help.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[mr914]

Hmm.. Will have to post photo of universal cat carrier (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) just as humor

Disclaimer - no animals were harmed (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sheeplove.gif) in producing this thread, however, a few brain cells may have been damaged during the solution of this problem. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

Fiddled with the motor some more. Checked for extra washer, pulled pistons from other side.

Rotated offending cylinder to tdc and soaked with pb blaster.

Screwed in leak down testing tool and applied 100 psi. Nice leak from exhaust side.... That's right, this is the dead cylinder (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

Tapped around with bigger mallet and 2x4. Got slight movement.

Appears top right head stud is corroded to the head.

I can twist the head 2-3 mm but it is bound to the stud

Soaking again tonight and may have to cut the head stud (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif)

Unless someone knows how to dissolve rust caused by mouse piss (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

[injunmort]

a little heat will cure the oxidation, just say'in

[Bob L.]

There was a recent thread about using vinegar to dissolve rust. Let it soak for a few hours.

[billh1963]

Anyone that would do that to any animal is a sick fuck and should seek professional help.

For real .... why would you hurt an innocent frog? A cat, well.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

[Mblizzard]

Don't know if there are enough threads on those studs but do the double nut trick and see if you can rotate the stuck stud.

Yea that wording is likely to come back and bite me!

[mr914]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif) Some very good ideas and some unique ones that I had never heard of.

After a couple of days of soaking, trying heat gun and propane torch.

It was time for (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif)

I ended up using a auto body saw to cut the cylinder stud. It took 5 blades in all, as the studs are hardened and the saw only has about a 3/8" stroke. Yes I lubed the blade and cutting surface to not harden it.

I am a dosin at the Museum of American Speed and spoke with the engine restoration guys. Their trick chemical is a 50/50 mix of Acetone and Trans fluid.

Not that the head is off, I can try other approaches to removing the stud.

In thinking about this thread, I realized that some of the posters are probably 4 cyl guys and are not familiar with the nuances of a 6 cyl engine. So I drew on a couple photos of 911 heads for reference.


Thanks for all of your input

[stugray]

Put it in an old crock pot full of vinegar and put it on high for a couple of hours (outside of course:-)

[sixnotfour]

I have had the same problem, and cut the stud...BTW that appears to have 90mm cylinders, 2519cc , the case has been bored to accept them, heads modified also to accept the bigger bore and later head gasket, or they are later heads, what is the casting year number on them ??
Good Score ..unless you wanted a 2.0-2.4....

Better Decode the engine number, It may be worth way more than you think...911S registry guys are always searching for these early motors these days to complete their numbers matching desire..$$$$

One more thing if that Red fan shroud is correct its a S motor .....$$$

[mr914]

I decided to disassemble the motor to see what condition it was in. I was considering selling or trading for a correct 2.0 for my 6 or a 3.2.

It was quite a surprise. Thought I was disassembling a 69 2.0T motor.

For a while, I thought I had a 69S motor. Till I cleaned the crud up more and got a good look at the case numbers 901/05

The motor started out life as a 2.0T motor with carbs. We know who the owners were in the mid 80s-present. The car sat for many, many years. We think we know who did the upgrade of the motor, but it has been so long ago, he remembers the car but not what he did to it.


Here is what I know.

Case:
Case type 901/05 Sequence 6692
Case SN: 909442
Case spigots machined for 90mm P&Cs
Has not been modified for piston squirters
Note on case says "case machined .030 for compression
Original oil pump and intermediate shaft - case has not been machined for bearings


Crank and rods
Stroke 70.4
Counterweighted
Rods pn 911.103.105.0R


Heads
32mm ports
40 46 valves
Dual valve springs
No Provisions for Injectors
Part number 911.104.306.0R Looks like casting date was 10/69

According to Bruce's book, it looks like it is an aluminum 2.0 converted to a 2.7

Someone spent a bunch of bucks machining years ago

[Jon B]

Case type 901/05 Sequence 6692
Case SN: 909442

Nice collection of parts for very strong street motor.
Case number is model year '67 911, not T or S.
Pistons appear to be Euro Carrera 2.7 for MFI, 8.5:1, obviously not CIS pistons.
Heads from carbureted 2.2T, small ports, machined to accept 90mm cylinders.
All 911 engines had dual valve springs.

Cams???

Jon B.
Vista, CA

[mr914]

Cams

901.105.109.01
901.105.110.01
Date stamped 2/70

Any idea what they are and how I can tell if they were reground?

Original cam specs would help as I could measure to see if they are stock

[toolguy]

looks like you have Solex Cams. . Great for the street. . A little better than E's but not quite as 'lumpy' as S. . I had a 2.2 with E pistons and Solex cams. . starts pulling hard at 3500 and went to 7200 easily

[Jon B]

These were "Solex" cams for '67 engine with splash lubrication, not center lube. Same billet numbers.
See chart below, fifth line down, matches your case serial number.
Agree with toolguy, great for street use, roughly between E and S cams.
I don't think "70" number is date code.

Anything stamped on either end?



Jon B.
Vista, CA

[mr914]

After cleaning some crud off of the end....

One said "SOLEX"


Sounds like it could be a fun motor.

Would this be considered a 2.7 RS configuration sans MFI?

What type of HP should I expect with webers? And how would it compare to my old 74 2.7 cis car or my 85 911 Carrera 3.2?

Just thinking, have 2.2E with MFI that currently is mounted in the 6...

How tough is it to convert a 2.2 MFI system to 2.7?

Boatloads of cash to obtain un-obtanium parts? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[Jon B]

Sounds like it could be a fun motor.
Would this be considered a 2.7 RS configuration sans MFI?

Not quite 2.7 RS.
Ports are pretty small for 2.7, US/CIS ports were 35/35, RS 36/35.
Same valve sizes.
RS had S/MFI cams.
Still basis for very nice motor, if everything in good condition.

Can't mount MFI pump on early case, can't drive pump with carb cams, heads need mod for injectors, etc...
I'd leave 2.2E alone.

Jon B.

[Jon B]

Sounds like it could be a fun motor.

I built the engine for this '67 911 about 20 years ago.
Same basic 2.7 upgrade, RS p/c, Solex cams.
Scroll down to specs beneath engine photo...

http://www.audettecollection.com/306607/

Jon B.
Vista, CA

[gandalf_025]

I'll throw another 2 cents into this. Not that you asked.... But here it is..

Option 1
Clean up the case and post the engine number in a For Sale Feeler on the Early S and Pelican Sites. Someone with the car this engine belonged to might be interested in buying it back. Early cars are going for stupid money and engines are getting up there also. If it sells, you can build something or buy a running 3.0 or 3.2 with the cash.

Option 2
Send the case out and have oil squirter's installed if they aren't in it already. Have the case mod for a big oil pump done at the same time. There is a guy on Pelican selling 3.6 alloy oil pumps for around 500.00.
Put the early heads on a shelf and pick up a set of late 2.7 heads with bigger valves and ports. They aren't that expensive. Twin plug them. Watch Pelican to find a pair of Electromotive Crank Fire units. JE Pistons and I'd find a 2.0 crankshaft and make it a 2.5 SS

2 months ago I sold my early 65 long block that was made into a 2.5. It had all it's 65 parts except the pistons and cylinders. Case and heads were cut to 2.7.
Center oiler solex cams were still in it too. It sold in 20 minutes. Wasn't even the matching number car owner. Just someone that wanted "period Correct".
I owned that engine for around 40 years and never considered selling it.
In the end, Cash Talked Loudly. Prices on early stuff is still going up it seems.
I'd probably get 2000.00 more if I sold my engine today.

[mr914]

Hmm.....

Now this is a dilemma


Sell or rebuild the motor in this thread.

To fund that rebuild and the completion of the 6, I would need to sell the 2.2E motor with MFI that has not run in 20 years but turns freely

Or Sell/Trade one or the other/both for a 3.2 w/pmo's

Only need one good motor for the 6

Any idea on values? I've searched the web and evilbay and cant seem to find a 2.2R w/MFI

[mr914]

Update:

Had one of the cylinders stuck to the head on disassembly.

Tried the vinegar trick on a old 1.7 head. Works slow but seems to work

Used some PB Blaster on the stuck cylinder. Added a little heat and it came right off.


Still soaking the rusted stud. Only time will tell.

Any suggestions how to clean carbon off of Nakasil Cylinders?

Im thinking oven cleaner and a white scotch brite