3 liter Flat six, New project? For sale? who knows Options

[skline]

I just ran across a good deal on a Porsche 3 liter from a 1980 911. I think its a 3 liter. Its the stock engine. Its been rebuilt but not assembled. The heads are off but it is complete. I will be picking it up on Saturday. Anybody with an idea of what the engine is worth? I just want to make sure I am getting it for a good price and not being taken. The heads are fresh, new rings and it does come with the gasket kits. Everything is supposed to be ready to assemble. Whats it worth?

[scotty b]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/chowtime.gif) I'll give you a running driving 82 924 for it!!???? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif)

[TimT]

Less than $1500

[Red-Beard]

Send it down to Sergio and have it assembled. Assembled, it is worth 2-3K. What else do you get with it? Fuel system? Alternator?

[skline]

I am not sure what I am going to do with it yet. My best guess is it will cost me about 800 to have it all put together and ready to run. The heads are not on it but everything else is. Most of it will come complete with the heads and accesories in boxes. I want to find out what its worth before I pick it up though. Anyone venture to guess? I am not sure if it is carbs or FI. What did a 1980 911 come with?

[skline]

QUOTE (Red-Beard @ Jan 18 2005, 11:40 AM)

Send it down to Sergio and have it assembled. Assembled, it is worth 2-3K. What else do you get with it? Fuel system? Alternator?

I am getting everything with it. Alternator, fan, whatever induction system came on a 1980 911.

[scotty b]

1980 911 is a 3.0, if you can veryify it as an sc motor your are getting hoter. I would say complete engine, with all machine work done 1500.00. Machine work alone would be close to that. 750.00 assembly then you have a 2500.00- 3500.00 engine!!

[skline]

I might be interested in trading for a fairly clean running 75 or older 914 if anyone is interested in that. Just a thought. Or I may just keep it and build a 914/6

[J P Stein]

Hell, I'd buy it at 1500.....and I'm a CSOB.....but, I would prefer to find it totaly torn down. I could spend a couple hours with
my mics and find out iff'n it was any good.

A general rule is don't pay more than you can part it out for.
1500-2000 is not out of line and it *could* be a hell of a buy...
and it could be a looser.

Do you know what you're looking at? There are about 30000 bits & pieces in a 9eleben motor....not including the CIS (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

There are also 60-80 engine types ....each has their own type number....know bout those? If you know someone that does know, take him along.

[Root_Werks]

80' has the smaller intake ports/runners and the addition of electronics to an otherwise mechanical fuel system. Yuck. Not saying if I didn't find a deal on an 80-83 3.0 I wouldn't jump on it. But the 78-79's are the desirable ones. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

[Sammy]

A decent running (non-rebuilt) 911SC 3 liter (1980) engine with no problems will fetch upwards of $3500. Iffn it has a top end rebuild with steel studs instead of dilavar, figure close to $5k.
Because it is not an assembled running motor it is worth less, my guess is around $2k assuming everything is good. Once it is up and running just right the value goes way up. That's the sticky part, you really don't know what you have until it runs. Put a magnet on the lower head studs. If the magnet does not stick strongly, run away Forest. that means they didn't replace the dilavar with steel and prolly mickey-moused the rebuild.
Why didn't they complete the rebuild? If they ran out of money I can understand, but maybe they found a problem and gave up?

BTW, I disagree on the 78-79 being better, look at the compression ratios. Yes the ports are smaller on the later years but the HP remains the same. The lambda sensor system is not a problem either. If you hook it up, it works well and improves gas mileage. If you decide not to hook up the O2 sensor you can run it that way and tune it just like a 79.
The earlier engines also had smog pumps (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/icon8.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ar15.gif)

[scotty b]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif) and (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ar15.gif) THERMAL REACTORS

[Root_Werks]

QUOTE (Sammy @ Jan 18 2005, 01:25 PM)

BTW, I disagree on the 78-79 being better, look at the compression ratios. Yes the ports are smaller on the later years but the HP remains the same. The lambda sensor system is not a problem either. If you hook it up, it works well and improves gas mileage. If you decide not to hook up the O2 sensor you can run it that way and tune it just like a 79. The earlier engines also had smog pumps (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/icon8.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ar15.gif)

Truu, the later 3.0's have higher compression and when working, the lamba sensor does a nice job leaning things out, but will add a little more to hook up. He will need the box from under the pass. seat out of a 911, some of the wiring and relays etc.

Again, not that I wouldn't turn a deal down if I found one, but if I had a choice, I would still go with the earlier 3.0. Compression is easier to increase than port size. But that is just my opinion. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif) I'm not a machinest so what do I know? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif) Just that milling for compression has been cheaper than porting heads.

I have had 2 SC's and niether had smog pumps on them? That a CA thing? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif)

[Root_Werks]

QUOTE (scotty b @ Jan 18 2005, 01:29 PM)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif) and (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ar15.gif) THERMAL REACTORS

The 78' and 79' I had both had the one cat off to the left side like the 3.2's do. Single in, single out mufflers. I thought all SC's were like that? Worked on tons of them as well, have never seen the therms on any of them? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif) Even the later 80-83, have the same systems as the early ones I have worked on. I could be wrong though. I only know what I have seen. But I thougth the therms were a 2.7 only mistake?

[scotty b]

I have admittedly only seen one (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif) with them but was under the impression that some of the first 3.0 had them.Maybe only in Ca.?

[lapuwali]

Thermal reactors were 2.7 only, and only '75-'77. The '78-'79 SC engines had CIS with a catalytic convertor. As far as I know, they didn't have smog pumps anywhere, even in CA. The '80-'82 SCs had CIS with Lambda, which used an O2 sensor to adjust the mixture on the fly. This not only keeps things cleaner, but the cat lives a lot longer. Moot point on a 914, unless you're going to make a custom exhaust to include the cat.

As being discussed now in Howard's thread, CIS works very nicely and just barely fits in the 914. The CIS w/Lambda only requires you to fit an O2 sensor in the exhaust somewhere. The electronics involved are fairly minimal. The O2 sensor controls a servo valve on the fuel distributor to vary metering fuel pressure, thus altering the mixture curve.

[xitspd]

A 1980 3.0 is from a 911SC. It is a very strong foundation for motor development. The weak link in the engine is the CIS fuel injection system. I have a 3.0 that has been increased to a 3.2 with new P&Cs recamed, ported with 46mm Webers. It runs strong!

[J P Stein]

QUOTE (Root_Werks @ Jan 18 2005, 01:51 PM)

Compression is easier to increase than port size. But that is just my opinion. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif) I'm not a machinest so what do I know? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif) Just that milling for compression has been cheaper than porting heads.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/bs.gif)

[Sammy]

1978 and 1979 had smog pumps, unless my Porsche repair manuals are wrong.
Mike Z's 1983 had a smog pump too IIRC but it was a euro.

You can't just mill 911 heads, it is much more complicated than that. Overhead cams and all. You wanna change compression (more than a couple tenths), you change pistons.
Pistons and cylinders (mahle nikasil) for a 3 liter cost around $3500 new. You can go aftermarket and save some money on pistons unless you have alusil cylinders, then you use stock or you buy new nikasil cylinders.
These things are great when they are in good shape and a total money pit if they are not in good shape, hense the huge difference in the price of a good proven engine vs. a core.

[Dr Evil]

Scott,
I could help you figure it out having just done one my self reacently. PM?