Son wants a 944 as a DD, After a couple of stick driving lessons - he is using it daily Options

[scott_in_nh]

So my son and I are looking for his first car and he has about $3k to spend.

He does not have a lot of driving experience, but does ok.

Of course, seeing me putting 7 – 10k miles/year on the 914 has him thinking he can buy and old car as a DD.
I’ve further created a monster as he wants a 944.

I have serious reservations about this choice based on New England winters and the age of the cars.
Tonight we are going to look at a turbo that I have even more reservations about.

He won’t have a garage (but I do), has mediocre mechanical skills (i.e. I’ll be working on whatever he gets too) and will need it reliable enough to get to work every day.

So what do you guys think?

He also likes Mini Coopers, but we are having a hard time finding one close in his price range.
He doesn’t like Golf’s with the 2.0 and I don’t like the 1.8T (or anything else old with a turbo or supercharger).
He sort of likes the 1993 to 99 Celica.

He is looking for something with some panache and likes the Euro brands better.

I am trying to get him to realize that this is his first car not his last and that safety and reliability are more important.

So what say you? If not the 944 then what?

[rhodyguy]

How badly do YOU want pay or spend time replacing a timing belt and everything that goes with it? Sounds like he's younger. How much to insure a 944 in his age bracket?

[motorvated]

So my son and I are looking for his first car and he has about $3k to spend.

He does not have a lot of driving experience, but does ok.

Of course, seeing me putting 7 – 10k miles/year on the 914 has him thinking he can buy and old car as a DD.
I’ve further created a monster as he wants a 944.

I have serious reservations about this choice based on New England winters and the age of the cars.
Tonight we are going to look at a turbo that I have even more reservations about.

He won’t have a garage (but I do), has mediocre mechanical skills (i.e. I’ll be working on whatever he gets too) and will need it reliable enough to get to work every day.

So what do you guys think?

He also likes Mini Coopers, but we are having a hard time finding one close in his price range.
He doesn’t like Golf’s with the 2.0 and I don’t like the 1.8T (or anything else old with a turbo or supercharger).
He sort of likes the 1993 to 99 Celica.

He is looking for something with some panache and likes the Euro brands better.

I am trying to get him to realize that this is his first car not his last and that safety and reliability are more important.

So what say you? If not the 944 then what?

If you don't want to spend much time working on it, I'd stick with Japanese. Something like a '94-ish Mazda MX-6 LS with the V-6. I drove one daily for several years and it was a fun and reliable drive. When I went to sell it, I discovered that the young kids were seeking them out. Decent performance. Great handling, and very stylish. And close to 30 mpg to boot.

[Johny Blackstain]

DD = Honda Civic. Cheap, reliable, paid for & what I use... a 95 4 door. Of course I had to play with it since it did not meet my performance expectations but that was also cheap & easy, since it's a plug & play type car. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) 944s are relatively cheap & reliable also, but when they go down they go down expen$ive.

[Amphicar770]

I have to concur with others. Had a civic for several years and never did more than change the oil.

Likewise, for a new driver, modern safety features like air bags are important to have.

My son wants an Aston Martin. He will more likely be getting Mom's minivan when we replace it!

[poorsche914]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
You just can't beat a Honda Civic for an inexpensive DD that is easy to upgrade.

My wife has a 2000 Civic with nearly 250K on it. Just now needing a clutch. Last year had to replace a leaking radiator. I was dreading the job but all it took was $50 and about 15 minutes (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

My son had an '83 944. Great car until a $5 O-ring went bad allowing oil in the coolant. Cost to repair? Well over a grand (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) Ended up selling the car. He now drives an '02 GTI 1.8T. He has had good luck with it over the past 5 years or so.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[scott_in_nh]

How badly do YOU want pay or spend time replacing a timing belt and everything that goes with it? Sounds like he's younger. How much to insure a 944 in his age bracket?

He is younger, but pretty much anything old and cheap is about $90 - $100 a month for Prgressive.

We would be looking for a car that has had the timing belt and any other major required maintenance done.

[CptTripps]

Grab an '04 WRX. They can be had less than a 944, and won't break down like a 944. Also likely faster...especially in the snow that's going to start falling in 6-9mos.

[scott_in_nh]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
You just can't beat a Honda Civic for an inexpensive DD that is easy to upgrade.

My wife has a 2000 Civic with nearly 250K on it. Just now needing a clutch. Last year had to replace a leaking radiator. I was dreading the job but all it took was $50 and about 15 minutes (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

My son had an '83 944. Great car until a $5 O-ring went bad allowing oil in the coolant. Cost to repair? Well over a grand (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) Ended up selling the car. He now drives an '02 GTI 1.8T. He has had good luck with it over the past 5 years or so.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

While we both know Hondas are great cars, because of the tuner boy thing he really can't stomach one.

He won't drive a Focus either because his sister has one and that makes it a girl's car.

Yes he is driving me nuts! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

But once he has a car, then he is getting an apartment - so I am motivated to find a seat for his ass!

[wes]

I've had and really like 944s though of all, the turbo could be a money pit as just replacing a pan gasket would be an all day job for a Porsche mechanic and a timing belt is over a $1000 to replace on any 944. As said above would be the wiser way to go, good luck.

[michael7810]

I love driving my 944 Turbo but...

Posted on Jalopnik in Response to the Question "What is the Hardest Car to Work On?"

Porsche 944T/951. It will test your supply of supposedly 'complete' metric tools. I have more cut up and shortened wrenches, allen sets, and sockets for this car than every other car that I have ever owned combined. Since it has a transaxle and torque tube, enjoy an 8 hour drivetrain pull for what used to be mundane things. (Boxster/911 guys, enjoy your drivetrain pull that is not spread out over the underside of an entire car and also attached to front suspension...). People that can thread the bolt for the dipstick tube in without loosening the intake are either wizards or are in the Guinness Book of World Records for smallest hands. Water pump replacements require pulling every single cog off the front of the engine because of a belt cover design that puts the back half of the cover BEHIND the cogs with no clearance holes. Transaxle tasks require disconnecting the differential cooler and fuel lines/filter in the rear, which on a car that hasnt been in a museum for the last 25 years usually results in fuel line replacement when the line gives before the frozen fittings. The cam cover allen bolts are recessed in the cam housing, accessible through tiny holes normally covered with plugs, and are perfectly spaced to hook your socket allen bits on the way out and send them tumbling horrifyingly into the dark recesses of the engine. The speed/reference sensors that so frequently result in rough running problems are on the top of the bellhousing snug against the firewall, and once again need wizard and/or record holder fingers to get at without spending three hours swearing, disassembling the top of the engine, and throwing parts at the walls. The bolts holding the turbo on cannot be taken out without disconnecting the steering linkage. The tacked-on turbo plumbing adds a plethora of water hoses that turn into a very clever Rubik's cube puzzle of arranging hose clamps so you can tighten them all when they inevitably start leaking after the first post-assembly trip down the road. To top all this off, the Haynes manual for the car is a flaming pile of useless **** with torque values frequently off by a factor of 2 or more, meaning that the saps that used it for their first fix turned an afternoon project into a three week downtime nightmare drilling hardened bolts out of aluminum somewhere.

A Porsche 951 problem usually meant prepwork consisting of parts, dinner to eat in the garage, a box of band-aids, a handy computer to frequently search with and scream at, and a rope and a chair in the corner as a last resort.

[scott_in_nh]

Grab an '04 WRX. They can be had less than a 944, and won't break down like a 944. Also likely faster...especially in the snow that's going to start falling in 6-9mos.

All true, but again he doesn't like/fit in/want to be one of the jackasses his age who drive tuner Subaru's.

Are 944's if properly maintained in the past unreliable?

He has spent a lot of time on forum's and insists the owners claim them to be reliable.

[ConeDodger]

Mine wants one too. We've seen some real shit in our search though. That and he keeps spending his money rather than saving for it... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

[matthepcat]

+1 for a suby. Although it has alot of performance potential in turbo form with a turbo back exhaust and tune......Not sure if fast is what you want a new driver to be able to go.

Grab an '04 WRX. They can be had less than a 944, and won't break down like a 944. Also likely faster...especially in the snow that's going to start falling in 6-9mos.

[scott_in_nh]

I love driving my 944 Turbo but...

Posted on Jalopnik in Response to the Question "What is the Hardest Car to Work On?"

Porsche 944T/951. It will test your supply of supposedly 'complete' metric tools. I have more cut up and shortened wrenches, allen sets, and sockets for this car than every other car that I have ever owned combined. Since it has a transaxle and torque tube, enjoy an 8 hour drivetrain pull for what used to be mundane things. (Boxster/911 guys, enjoy your drivetrain pull that is not spread out over the underside of an entire car and also attached to front suspension...). People that can thread the bolt for the dipstick tube in without loosening the intake are either wizards or are in the Guinness Book of World Records for smallest hands. Water pump replacements require pulling every single cog off the front of the engine because of a belt cover design that puts the back half of the cover BEHIND the cogs with no clearance holes. Transaxle tasks require disconnecting the differential cooler and fuel lines/filter in the rear, which on a car that hasnt been in a museum for the last 25 years usually results in fuel line replacement when the line gives before the frozen fittings. The cam cover allen bolts are recessed in the cam housing, accessible through tiny holes normally covered with plugs, and are perfectly spaced to hook your socket allen bits on the way out and send them tumbling horrifyingly into the dark recesses of the engine. The speed/reference sensors that so frequently result in rough running problems are on the top of the bellhousing snug against the firewall, and once again need wizard and/or record holder fingers to get at without spending three hours swearing, disassembling the top of the engine, and throwing parts at the walls. The bolts holding the turbo on cannot be taken out without disconnecting the steering linkage. The tacked-on turbo plumbing adds a plethora of water hoses that turn into a very clever Rubik's cube puzzle of arranging hose clamps so you can tighten them all when they inevitably start leaking after the first post-assembly trip down the road. To top all this off, the Haynes manual for the car is a flaming pile of useless **** with torque values frequently off by a factor of 2 or more, meaning that the saps that used it for their first fix turned an afternoon project into a three week downtime nightmare drilling hardened bolts out of aluminum somewhere.

A Porsche 951 problem usually meant prepwork consisting of parts, dinner to eat in the garage, a box of band-aids, a handy computer to frequently search with and scream at, and a rope and a chair in the corner as a last resort.

thanks a lot for the detailed response - this is the kind of ammo I need

[scott_in_nh]

+1 for a suby. Although it has alot of performance potential in turbo form with a turbo back exhaust and tune......Not sure if fast is what you want a new driver to be able to go.

Grab an '04 WRX. They can be had less than a 944, and won't break down like a 944. Also likely faster...especially in the snow that's going to start falling in 6-9mos.

Yeah I want him to have fun, but not fast.
I agree this would be a better choice and he can easily avoid the tuner look.

No offence to you guys who have them, but there are a ton of DB's that drive them here and the Police take notice too, so it is a hard sell.

[championgt1]

IMO a $3000 944 is a bad idea. At that price it is going to need work.

[OU8AVW]

1.5 weeks in.....
Shoulda listened to Zach.

[Mikey914]

A well cared for 944 NA can be found ini that range. The only really big deal is the belts. They don't go really fast, but have the coolness of a Porsche. Tell him that unless he races it no one will know it's not really that fast. A stock NA is just a little faster than a 2.0 stock 914.
That will keep him from racing.
The motor is basically a big in line 4' and Maintenon is not that bad. I've done timing belts, and the oil water exchange seal, not really a big deal. Would make for some good father son projects.
Of course the first thing he will want to do is turbo it. To do this it's actually cheaper to buy the turbo. So tell him to enjoy it and save his cash. They can be dependable daily drivers. I'm currently driving an 86 951.

[d914]

Too bad I'm too far away, just put my wrx wagon up for sale ,, awd , all services done, I had my son in it and it handle Atlanta monsoons like no ones business.. 155k and going strong.. Find a wagon that nobody has played with. Little torque in the low end and easy to drive.. Does get fast when you spool it up though.