So my son and I are looking for his first car and he has about $3k to spend.

He does not have a lot of driving experience, but does ok.

Of course, seeing me putting 7 – 10k miles/year on the 914 has him thinking he can buy and old car as a DD.
I’ve further created a monster as he wants a 944.

I have serious reservations about this choice based on New England winters and the age of the cars.
Tonight we are going to look at a turbo that I have even more reservations about.

He won’t have a garage (but I do), has mediocre mechanical skills (i.e. I’ll be working on whatever he gets too) and will need it reliable enough to get to work every day.

So what do you guys think?

He also likes Mini Coopers, but we are having a hard time finding one close in his price range.
He doesn’t like Golf’s with the 2.0 and I don’t like the 1.8T (or anything else old with a turbo or supercharger).
He sort of likes the 1993 to 99 Celica.

He is looking for something with some panache and likes the Euro brands better.

I am trying to get him to realize that this is his first car not his last and that safety and reliability are more important.

So what say you? If not the 944 then what?

How badly do YOU want pay or spend time replacing a timing belt and everything that goes with it? Sounds like he's younger. How much to insure a 944 in his age bracket?

If you don't want to spend much time working on it, I'd stick with Japanese. Something like a '94-ish Mazda MX-6 LS with the V-6. I drove one daily for several years and it was a fun and reliable drive. When I went to sell it, I discovered that the young kids were seeking them out. Decent performance. Great handling, and very stylish. And close to 30 mpg to boot.

DD = Honda Civic. Cheap, reliable, paid for & what I use... a 95 4 door. Of course I had to play with it since it did not meet my performance expectations but that was also cheap & easy, since it's a plug & play type car. 944s are relatively cheap & reliable also, but when they go down they go down expen$ive.

I have to concur with others. Had a civic for several years and never did more than change the oil.

Likewise, for a new driver, modern safety features like air bags are important to have.

My son wants an Aston Martin. He will more likely be getting Mom's minivan when we replace it!

You just can't beat a Honda Civic for an inexpensive DD that is easy to upgrade.

My wife has a 2000 Civic with nearly 250K on it. Just now needing a clutch. Last year had to replace a leaking radiator. I was dreading the job but all it took was $50 and about 15 minutes

My son had an '83 944. Great car until a $5 O-ring went bad allowing oil in the coolant. Cost to repair? Well over a grand Ended up selling the car. He now drives an '02 GTI 1.8T. He has had good luck with it over the past 5 years or so.

He is younger, but pretty much anything old and cheap is about $90 - $100 a month for Prgressive.

We would be looking for a car that has had the timing belt and any other major required maintenance done.

Grab an '04 WRX. They can be had less than a 944, and won't break down like a 944. Also likely faster...especially in the snow that's going to start falling in 6-9mos.

While we both know Hondas are great cars, because of the tuner boy thing he really can't stomach one.

He won't drive a Focus either because his sister has one and that makes it a girl's car.

Yes he is driving me nuts!

But once he has a car, then he is getting an apartment - so I am motivated to find a seat for his ass!

I've had and really like 944s though of all, the turbo could be a money pit as just replacing a pan gasket would be an all day job for a Porsche mechanic and a timing belt is over a $1000 to replace on any 944. As said above would be the wiser way to go, good luck.

I love driving my 944 Turbo but...

Posted on Jalopnik in Response to the Question "What is the Hardest Car to Work On?"

Porsche 944T/951. It will test your supply of supposedly 'complete' metric tools. I have more cut up and shortened wrenches, allen sets, and sockets for this car than every other car that I have ever owned combined. Since it has a transaxle and torque tube, enjoy an 8 hour drivetrain pull for what used to be mundane things. (Boxster/911 guys, enjoy your drivetrain pull that is not spread out over the underside of an entire car and also attached to front suspension...). People that can thread the bolt for the dipstick tube in without loosening the intake are either wizards or are in the Guinness Book of World Records for smallest hands. Water pump replacements require pulling every single cog off the front of the engine because of a belt cover design that puts the back half of the cover BEHIND the cogs with no clearance holes. Transaxle tasks require disconnecting the differential cooler and fuel lines/filter in the rear, which on a car that hasnt been in a museum for the last 25 years usually results in fuel line replacement when the line gives before the frozen fittings. The cam cover allen bolts are recessed in the cam housing, accessible through tiny holes normally covered with plugs, and are perfectly spaced to hook your socket allen bits on the way out and send them tumbling horrifyingly into the dark recesses of the engine. The speed/reference sensors that so frequently result in rough running problems are on the top of the bellhousing snug against the firewall, and once again need wizard and/or record holder fingers to get at without spending three hours swearing, disassembling the top of the engine, and throwing parts at the walls. The bolts holding the turbo on cannot be taken out without disconnecting the steering linkage. The tacked-on turbo plumbing adds a plethora of water hoses that turn into a very clever Rubik's cube puzzle of arranging hose clamps so you can tighten them all when they inevitably start leaking after the first post-assembly trip down the road. To top all this off, the Haynes manual for the car is a flaming pile of useless **** with torque values frequently off by a factor of 2 or more, meaning that the saps that used it for their first fix turned an afternoon project into a three week downtime nightmare drilling hardened bolts out of aluminum somewhere.

A Porsche 951 problem usually meant prepwork consisting of parts, dinner to eat in the garage, a box of band-aids, a handy computer to frequently search with and scream at, and a rope and a chair in the corner as a last resort.

All true, but again he doesn't like/fit in/want to be one of the jackasses his age who drive tuner Subaru's.

Are 944's if properly maintained in the past unreliable?

He has spent a lot of time on forum's and insists the owners claim them to be reliable.

Mine wants one too. We've seen some real shit in our search though. That and he keeps spending his money rather than saving for it...

+1 for a suby. Although it has alot of performance potential in turbo form with a turbo back exhaust and tune......Not sure if fast is what you want a new driver to be able to go.

thanks a lot for the detailed response - this is the kind of ammo I need

Yeah I want him to have fun, but not fast.
I agree this would be a better choice and he can easily avoid the tuner look.

No offence to you guys who have them, but there are a ton of DB's that drive them here and the Police take notice too, so it is a hard sell.

IMO a $3000 944 is a bad idea. At that price it is going to need work.

1.5 weeks in.....
Shoulda listened to Zach.

Click to view attachment

A well cared for 944 NA can be found ini that range. The only really big deal is the belts. They don't go really fast, but have the coolness of a Porsche. Tell him that unless he races it no one will know it's not really that fast. A stock NA is just a little faster than a 2.0 stock 914.
That will keep him from racing.
The motor is basically a big in line 4' and Maintenon is not that bad. I've done timing belts, and the oil water exchange seal, not really a big deal. Would make for some good father son projects.
Of course the first thing he will want to do is turbo it. To do this it's actually cheaper to buy the turbo. So tell him to enjoy it and save his cash. They can be dependable daily drivers. I'm currently driving an 86 951.

Too bad I'm too far away, just put my wrx wagon up for sale ,, awd , all services done, I had my son in it and it handle Atlanta monsoons like no ones business.. 155k and going strong.. Find a wagon that nobody has played with. Little torque in the low end and easy to drive.. Does get fast when you spool it up though.

The most expensive Porsche you can buy is the inexpensive one.

Look for earlier RX7's. The styling is pretty close and much fewer headaches. Some nice ones on bringatrailer in recent months.

He is ok with a NA, this turbo happened to come up close by so we are going to look.

I would prefer him to have an NA regarldess of make or model.

Possible I could push him that way, but he considers them a Japanese copy.

That said, I'd rather push him into something front wheel drive (or AWD) as he has zero experience driving in snow or slippery conditions.

if the WRX is priced right and no looming services it would be worth one way tickets and a father and son speed run home. i bought a pretty clean 97 legacy outback wagon last year and couldn't be happier with it. just under 182k when i bought it and it had a COMPLETE cooling system replacement, heads cleaned up and new studs (among other work), to the tune of $1974.62 7 months prior to the purchase. an old water tank fit in the back, disc brakes on all 4, AWD, automatic (first i've EVER owned), airbags, comfy. runs great and handles very well for what i consider a good sized car.

As a former 944S2 owner that endured both a failed timing belt and a failed clutch, I would never own one of those cars again. I will never own a water cooled Porsche for that matter. My kid has a better chance of getting a Hemi Cuda when he is of age than any 944. They are fun cars to drive, but get on the wrong side of one and you will find yourself in a dark place with an empty wallet.

I had a 924S, a 944 N/A in 924 clothing. They can be had cheaper than the 944 N/A. Corners like it's on rails. 0-60 times stink but the car comes alive 60-100.

Tons of electrical gremlins. I must have fixed the sunroof and rear trunk electrical 15 times. Belt replacement is a must after 50K. Any 944 or 924S owner should have paperwork to prove it. Trans is a funky arrangement that you don't want to change a clutch on. Parts aren't the easiest or cheapest to get (that was 6 years ago). Besides that it was a good car.

Is he opposed to a 924? Somewhat different animal with junkyard parts cheaper and more available.

I bought my 16 year old son a Honda Civic.

Very timely discussion. I think my 16 yo wants one of these...

scott, as others indicated, the 944/924S can be reliable - but must be purchased with care. I maintained a 924s for my son during his early college years. Belts, etc are typical issues. The single biggest issue is make sure what you buy has had the clutch done recently. This is very expensive to have done by someone else and the most frustrating job you can attempt to do yourself.

Other than that they can function well as a daily driver. Good luck.

In theory no, but for $3k we haven't seen one that has enough going for it to make it more desirable.

A 944 for the kid you describe? Are you nuts? NO WAY would I do that for/to my kid, or anyone else's, either! Look, I worked on them from when they were new until they went away, and saw them fall by the wayside as people bailed on 'em or scrapped 'em. A 4 wheeled money pit. Great handling, fun to drive, but EXPENSIVE to own. For a typical driver, figure $3-4K every 40K miles, if the work's done by a shop. Add $1500-2000 if it needs a clutch.

The Cap'n

Look also on the Rennlist forum, 944 subforum. As much as the 944 guys love their cars, they definitely take some significant ongoing repair costs. Especially one in the 3K range. I almost bought a 944 earlier this year, but went with the 914 instead. Of course, it isn't a DD.

ouch

Thanks Cap'n I knew you would state it like it is.

Thanks Cuda911 for what is likely a more realistic forum for him to check.

I looked around at some Subies, again I don't really want him in a turbo, but found some nice Impreza 2.5 RS cars in his price range and nearby - how are they?

Conversely I know if we start talking AWD he will lean to an Audi A4, but my understanding is their electrical systems don't age well - is that true? What else?

I'm trying to help him get started on his own with a car he likes drivng and looking at, but that is reliable, practical and safe too.

I really appreciate the input! Keep it coming, he's a good kid, but is as thick headed and stuborm as I am so I have my work cut out for me!

Might look at a Subaru SVX. Doesn't look like a copy of anything, good ones available in that price range, many have awd. Biggest reliability factor is the automatic tranmission; if it's been replaced you're good to go.

I just sold my 944 $2K and it was a great DD. 84 non turbo easy to work on. The parts I replaced were cheap and there are a ton on Craiglist for parts (in Oregon). Over here $3K should get you a good reliable car. I paid $1500 for mine and had very few issues. The timing belt is supposed to be replaced every 30K miles and it is an interference engine, so it must be done. I think 944's are very under rated for as comfortable and sporty as they are. Mine cornered amazing and had good power 150 hp 2700 lb car.

If your Son wants to learn how to work on cars it could be a good first car. If he doesn't have the mechanic itch buy him a Honda or Toyota.

For 3k I'd look at the following...

Miata
SVT Focus
Protege5

I had a 944 in my early 20's when they were fairly new..once they aquire some miles they do get very expensive to maintain ( although it did do pretty well in the wintry mountain passes.) If you are concerned with the local authorities stay away from guards red..my last ticket was 17?yrs ago and was a 39 in a 35..no, that wasn't the cop being nice to me..it was for going 39 in a 35.

If you can get a 2.5 RS for his budget of 3K- I'd lean the young lad with the champagne taste/beer budget that direction. In the Seattle area they are 6-10K for a nice car and have a cult following. AWD, light, better torque than the 944 and less $ to maintain. To find an un abused WRX is next to impossible and I think you would find the insurance eye opening.

Whatever he chooses I hope he gets involved in a local car club and gets a chance to try auto-x or a high performance driving clinic.. Great way to sew his speed oats and learn car control that could help him on a daily commute!

I applaud your involvement in your sons search- you remind me of my dad and I when I was a teen. My father is still very involved with my "car life" but I remember those early years to this day.

Best of luck in whatever he decides.
Andrew

Long shot but how about a Saab 900. Classic shape are very reliable and option of turbo to keep him thinking its fast. It's fwd to keep you happy. Really strong body if the worst ever happens. And it will fit anything he can think of in the back
Did I mention how cheap they are?

I'd vote for a Miata as well. Raced Spec Miata for several years and those cars can take a ton of abuse.
Sure they're not that fast but have a great gearbox and won't cost a ton to maintain...

The real issue here is insurance. You should sit down with your agent before you do anything, and ask about the numbers for a young male for each of the cars under discussion. Then for a young male with one ticket. Two tickets and he is uninsurable. And this is only for liability, collision is probably out of the question.

I suspect your agent will laugh when you say 16 yo male and Porsche in the same sentence.

Insurance companies classify certain cars as "hot" cars, and you may not be able to buy coverage for a young man at any price.

My son at 16 had to settle for a high mileage Mazda GLC, liability only.

...My choices,based on the young man's budget.quality
& reliability,

...Saab,Volvo,Ford Focus
(poster above has a good starting point)

2.5's non turbo's have some issues with head gaskets otherwise good cars. The 2.0 turbo no such issue??? But then again a ticket grabber!

Interesting car - how is parts availability?

The Miata is the way to go. Priced in the right range, great gas mileage, handle grat, not real fast and a timiming belt is under 25.00. Not hard to work on either.

Scott, we had a '95 Saab 900S convertible bought it for my son, about 2008, had about 100k miles on it , bought for $2500. ran great, never had an issue. averaged about 25 mpg combined- when he drove it. when I drove it, about 23 . I Put tires and brakes on it, did those myself, also had the tensioner pully bearing seize up, pulled into the autozone parking lot just in time, replaced that and the belt for under $50 in the parking lot. We had the car for 4 year and really should have kept it, except that I was offered $4500 for it and took the cash. I would get another one for sure.

Both my sons started out on 944's. My oldest had a 87"s" and moved up to a 951. Which I don't recommend for a teenager drive one and see what third gear is like on full boost! My youngest has a 86 turbo with a n/a engine. Both were fantastic cars. Most people who dislike them are afraid of the timing belts...so on and so forth. To this point neither car has had any major issues and all work has been done to beautify. There are many outlets for parts at affordable prices.
I highly recommend a 944 for a first car! Don't be scared.
Bill

Everybody has great advice for dad, I happen to like the above best.

Be the practical dad for advice, but also let the kid make his own choice and live with it.

I bought a TR6 right out of high school... In 12 months, $1000 and 500 miles, it was one the road for about 8 weeks. Sucked up so much of my money I had to go to college in my home town, and live at home the first semester (freshman loser!) instead of the college I really wanted to go to. Huge mistake for me, but I learned. In fact, I learned so well that 35 years later I bought a used Miata and drove it for 12 months and 19,000 miles and sold it for $500 more than I paid for it, with only oil change costs.

Live and learn... And then learn to live with it.

Not a lot of driving experience, not a lot of money.

Sounds like a good time to teach the young man a lesson about living within your means and your abilities. Sure, it would be really cool to have a Porsche for your first car but safety features and reliability are more important at this stage in life. Maybe after he has experienced his first fender bender, paid a few repair bills, etc. he can decide if he really wants to still have a Porsche.

My own kid always tells me about the exotic vehicles that "I should buy for him". I respond that it sounds really cool and I would love to drive it when he gets a job and pays for it with his own $$$.

As a Dad of three boys....this is the best advice I have read thus far.