Has anyone snuck a 215/60R15 into a narrow 914?, Thinking about P6000s Options

[Larmo63]

If you had the rear wheels widened, you could play with the offset and cram the tire towards the car.

How much wider is a 215 than a 205?

I'm running 205/60 x 15 Yokohamas on flat 6s and even those are tight.


And, btw, those phone dials look quite sweet on that black car!!!

[bdstone914]

How much wider is a 215 than a 205?

215-205 = 10MM

[rhodyguy]

Pete, I thought you had taken the 185/70-15 path. Interesting...go to Tirerack's discription and read the notation about voiding a portion of the warranty by using them below 47*f. WTF? Not -47* either. I can't imagine a worse tire to have on your car where I live.

[Mhead]

So, will the combo work?

...or is it too much tire for the body/rim?

Thx

[Bruce Hinds]

So, will the combo work?

...or is it too much tire for the body/rim?

Thx

The bottom line is maybe.

All tires of the same size are not quite the same size and this is going to be tight. If you're set on using these tires mount one up and try it all 4 corners. I say all four because the left and right fender clearance on the rears can be different. Fronts may rub a bit in a full lock turn depending on suspension height.

Even if they do fit, you may not like the way they handle on the narrow wheels.

[horizontally-opposed]

How much wider is a 215 than a 205?

215-205 = 10MM

Actually, actual tire widths vary significantly between manufacturers despite identical sizing. There is no rhyme or reason I can find, having just put a set of Michelin AS/3s on another car that are significantly wider than the identically sized Pirellis that came off it—while other Pirellis appear to be wider than Michelins in the tire specs listed on Tire Rack. But even these measurements must be taken with a grain of salt, depending on rim used for measurement, etc. In my case, it was enough so that you can lower the car with no issues on Pirellis but will get rubbing with the Michelins. Both tires are 205/40R17 per their sizing.

Back to 914s: What really matters for rear fitment is section width, not tread width. Most tires are wider in section than they are in tread, so that's the width that the fender will have to swallow if the top of the tire is hidden as it is on the back of a 914. For that, you need to dig into the tire specs, but measurements aren't necessarily uniform, and the rim used for the measurement within the acceptable rim width range may not match your setup. Best I could tell, the 215mm P6000s were about 0.5-inch wider than the widest 205s out there, so I knew it would be tight.

So I ordered a single 215/60R15 P6000 for a trial fit. TireRack.com is fine with this and will take the tire back—so long as it has not been driven on or damaged.

I removed the RR wheel, put the P6000 into the fender well, and then lowered the car for a "loose fitment" to see if the tire would even fit in the fender. It did, though I could tell it was going to be TIGHT. I tried the LR side and it was a bit better, but not much. Wheel offset and spacing would be everything, so I had it mounted on a 15x7 Fuchs 911R wheel (chosen for its offset and the resulting ability to work with spacers). I was able to get the mounted 215 into the rear fenders with a hair of clearance to either side using stacked washers before spending $$$ on custom spacers. The wheel/tire fit better on one side of the car than the other, but it was just too tight. Any side loading would cause tire rub on the chassis side, or blister the paint on the fender.

I might have been able to have the fender pulled a bit, but stopped short at the idea of modifying a 40-year-old Porsche's bodywork to fit one of the few tires available in 2016. Who knows what will be available in 2020, or 2018. They're not that far off. Also, there was some brake-line/trailing arm interference with the 215s. The spacers helped, but it was closer than I would have liked. So close I didn't even test drive it. Sadly, the tire shop ripped the bead when dismounting the tire, so I had to eat the cost of the P6000. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ar15.gif)

So I am going with a set of 185/70R15 Avon CR6ZZs in the hardest compound. Everyone raves about them, and they're a lot less expensive than buying that pair of 911R wheels + the Pirellis that no one seems to like. In fact, a set is priced within $200-300 of the P6000s. And Pirelli is about the only game left in town at 215/60R15 in a summer tire.

YMMV, but that's my story! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[rhodyguy]

there you go. smart move. sooner 1 crappy tire than 4+ mount/bal/disposal and everything thing that goes with it.

[Mhead]

Thanks all...The idea of mounting one tire and trying it on all corners is brilliant...That will be my next move.

I'll circle back with results and pictures...but for now it's off to battle the snow here in New England.

[Bruce Hinds]

someone just posted a good idea for that. He spoke of mounting and de-mounting wheels often so he went to the hardware store and purchased 2 long bolts with the same threads. He then cut off the heads so he could screw in the threaded rods and use those for guides, it makes it a whole lot easier than trying to line up the lug bolts.

[rick 918-S]

Tire availability for anything in 14-15-16 is giving me fits period. Are there that few cars out there needing vintage size rubber? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) Doesn't anyone actually drive their cars and wear out tires?

[blackmoon]

How much wider is a 215 than a 205?

215-205 = 10MM

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

[Racer]

Tire availability for anything in 14-15-16 is giving me fits period. Are there that few cars out there needing vintage size rubber? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) Doesn't anyone actually drive their cars and wear out tires?

15"s -yes.. and the "all season" tires of today are better than the performance tire when these cars are new.

The OP was looking for 215/60-15. This is also the base 944 tire size and there are several brands available for a lot less than P6000s run.

The driving force is that even todays shit kicker economy cars start with 15"s and most with 16's.. Tire companies aren't in the specialty business, except maybe Coker. What makes 205-50-15s so endless available for now is the early Miata/MR2 type crowd and the thousands of guys still running those cars demanding sporting tires.

While not quite the same, finding appropriate 14" tires with their 70-80 series sidewall, 40 years later is a little like looking for Model T tires (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[horizontally-opposed]

Tire selections are getting have been tricky if you want original sizes or something period correct. I like 205/50s for autocross cars, but their sidewalls are too short to my eyes. I like 225/50R15s quite a bit, but they require pulling fenders.

I'll leave the 14s and the CW tires to Coker Tire (where you can also buy Model T tires) and stick to what appealed to me as period-correct (or at least not "period WRONG") and still sporting options for a narrow 914 after a ton of personal research, phone calls, internet surfing, etc.

Coker Tire/Michelin XWX 185/70R15 (the hot tire of the day, standard equipment on the 911S and the +0 upgrade for 914s)
Notes: Can't get my head around $348 each for a tire this small, with such dated technology. Too concours/show & tell-oriented for me, and way too expensive to boot.
Find them here: https://www.cokertire.com/tires/michelin-xwx.html

Vredestein Sprint Classic 185/70R15 (the reasonably priced tire if you want period looks and decent performance)
Notes: Period tread pattern and sidewalls, probably better than the Coker Michelin XWX and a LOT less expensive at $140 each; nice steering response, nice ride, not so great in terms of ultimate grip. Bought a set 8-10 years ago. Just weren't for me, but a lot of people like them.
Find them here: http://www.vulcantire.com/cgi-bin/tiresear...t_classic_t.cst

Avon CR6ZZ 185/70R15 (just bought a set, will mount them shortly...)
Notes: We'll see about ride and handling, but everyone raves about them; definitely have the period look, with tall, plain sidewalls. Available in three compounds, with 29 being the hardest and 31 being the softest (you want 29s for the street). Narrower than I wanted, but I am told even the hardest version has a LOT more grip than any street-spec 195 or 205. Roger Kraus Racing carries them for $280/tire. Not cheap—unless you compare them to Coker XWXs. They do seem like good value against a modern N-spec Porsche tire, given their specialty nature—though they won't last as long. You can also get CR6ZZs in 215/60R15.
Find them here: http://rogerkrausracing.com/pages/pricing.html

Dunlop SP Sport 195/65R15 (a good middle of the road, affordable tire with reasonable grip by modern standards and a sidewall and tread pattern that don't look completely alien on a 1970s car)
Notes: Sidewall too modern for me, but better than most. A favored tire of Rod and Gary Emory for street-oriented 356 hot rods where Hoosiers won't work. Grip okay, ride okay, but distinctly not sporting—even if they are probably superior to the best tires of the 1970s. Bought a set, but am taking them off after 1,000~ miles. Just not for me. But: $65~ each is a bargain for what you get.
Find them here: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?gc...0160211172230:s

Michelin Pilot Sport All-Season 3 205/55R16 (what a great street tire!)
Notes: I almost moved on to 16-inch wheels just to mount a set of these. I put a set of them on our 2013 Abarth at $129~/tire and it may be my new favorite street tire. It's AVS Intermediate good, and maybe better. Crazy grip (better than many summer tires, apparently), very quiet, and carries a tread wear rating of 500. I'm not expecting that long a life given the grip, but will be fun finding out if it's hogwash. If the Avons don't work out, this may be my next plan.
Find them here: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?ti...romCompare1=yes

Michelin TB & TB15 (perfection, at a price)
If I was running a GT-flared 914 on 15-inch wheels, and perhaps one day I might be, the choice would be a lot simpler. I'd run Michelin TB15 tires (vintage race/tarmac rally tire) on 15x7&9-inch Fuchs. They have wonderful grip, REALLY nice steering response, and killer good looks. Jeff Zwart is running them on his yellow 914-6, and I was blown away by them. The fronts are 215/55R15, the rears are racing sizes but not all that hard to figure out for the back of a 914 (the same size as the front of a RSR 2.8).
Find them here: http://www.summitracing.com/search/product...elin-tb15-tires

Hope this is helpful for someone else!

[horizontally-opposed]

Okay, so I found the pics I took during the 215/60R15 experiments. I'll post them here for two reasons:

-Maybe they'll be helpful to someone else
-The hardest thing to find on the inter webs were (any) pictures of the tires I was interested in ON a 914, or even an early 911.

So, pardon the amount of pics, but here goes the first trial with the 215/60R15 P6000:

[horizontally-opposed]

Okay, so there was hope, or at least a little. The tire would physically fit inside the well, but there wasn't much room.

Next step was to try to locate it perfectly in there on a wheel—and I knew a 15x6 was both too narrow for a 215mm tire and unlikely to place it where it needed to be. So I borrowed a 911R wheel from a friend, which adds an inch to the inside and allows you to space the wheel as you need to. If you want to fit maximum tire under the back of a narrow 914, these are the best factory wheels for that purpose. I used washers instead of spacers to keep things easy—knowing I could have custom spacers made later if things looked good.

So, here goes...

[horizontally-opposed]

Sorry for a couple of sideways pics up above. Darn iPhone 6. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

In any event, those images show just how tight things were. The brake lines, in particular, were an issue. I'd want to look at rerouting them.

In the end, though, it was clear to me that both sides wanted to have the rear fenders pulled or flared, and more spacer. Not being interested in that, it was back to Square One: Finding a good high-performance 15-inch tire. There aren't a lot of choices, and there are even fewer places to get useful feedback—or photos—of what they're like on 914s. So a lot of my research would be funded out of my own pocket. Hopefully, it proves helpful to you, though I am under no illusion that my interests will match everyone else's (maybe that's why I couldn't find what I was looking for! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) )

So, let's look at what I bought, and moved on from...

[horizontally-opposed]

The Pirelli P6000 disappointment led to a new avenue after hearing so many rave reviews about the Avon CR6ZZ. So I just picked up four. Hopefully, they'll be on the car soon and I can report back.

[Larmo63]

Pete, I have a set of 5mm spacers you can have for the shipping costs...

[Larmo63]

I'd venture to say that a set of 7R wheels will be a bit spendy.

[horizontally-opposed]

Where I started back in 2006~: A set of old, hard Yokohama AVS ES100s in 205/55R15 that needed to be replaced. This was a tire size I fell in love with on the 914 when I could get BFG Comp T/A3s in it. I disliked the ES100s, both on this 914 and on a Subaru WRX. I know a lot of people like them, but I found the sidewalls unyielding and the squared shoulders foreboding as I approached the limit of adhesion.

Didn't miss them when I got rid of them from a performance/feedback standpoint, and wanted a taller, period-correct tire. Still one of my favorite tire sizes on a narrow 914, however.