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> Mid Engine Transmissions, I been thinking
MattR
post Jan 21 2005, 05:22 PM
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QUOTE (Mueller @ Jan 21 2005, 09:53 AM)
MR2 is not mid-engine.......it's basicly a traditional* FWD platform moved to the near middle of the vehicle

*confused*

how does transverse mounting alter the location of the engine?
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r_towle
post Jan 21 2005, 05:25 PM
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QUOTE (Mueller @ Jan 21 2005, 02:42 PM)
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The 928 puts out 300+ in stock trim...and it wont stay stock...I have seen 600HP versions out there.


have you priced how expensive it is to hot rod the 928 engine? they are not cheap at all......you might end up being very happy with 300hp (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

Supercharger!

Forced induction on the 5.0 liter would easily kill off a 901 tranny.

Rich
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r_towle
post Jan 21 2005, 05:27 PM
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QUOTE (MattR @ Jan 21 2005, 03:22 PM)
QUOTE (Mueller @ Jan 21 2005, 09:53 AM)
MR2 is not mid-engine.......it's basicly a traditional* FWD platform moved to the near middle of the vehicle

*confused*

how does transverse mounting alter the location of the engine?

the mr2 is a traversed mounted engine.

Which BTW I think might be a valid swap in for a 914.

Its basically a FWD engine and tranny with the motor mounted sideways (crank is left to right, versus a Type 4 which thecrank is front to rear)
So the engine and tranny are both sideways, flywheel etc are all sideways..

Rich
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Mueller
post Jan 21 2005, 05:29 PM
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the engine almost sits on top of the transmission, it it not what we consider mid-engine...

he wants to mate a V8 or similar engine to the transmission, not the easiest task with a transverse transmission as well


QUOTE
Supercharger!

Forced induction on the 5.0 liter would easily kill off a 901 tranny.

Rich
...go ahead...not too many 928s have had successful superchargers added without blowing the engine first (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)
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redshift
post Jan 21 2005, 05:33 PM
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B&B (a German company) made a 928 targa... was maybe '79...

Looked like a Super-Teener... and ended up with a six-pack of tiny turbos.

=o0


M
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MattR
post Jan 21 2005, 05:34 PM
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Isnt a mid engine car a car in which the engine sits in the middle (defined as being between the axles)?
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Mueller
post Jan 21 2005, 05:37 PM
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QUOTE (MattR @ Jan 21 2005, 04:34 PM)
Isnt a mid engine car a car in which the engine sits in the middle (defined as being between the axles)?

look at the location of the axle...it's damn near under the engine (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

(bottom left hand corner of pic)
(IMG:http://www.jhotexports.com/ebay/20041104/sw20_3sgte1_4.jpg)
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Mueller
post Jan 21 2005, 05:38 PM
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here is a better view of the transmission, it's the part in the lower left with the axles sticking out:

(IMG:http://www.jhotexports.com/ebay/20041104/sw20_3sgte1_6.jpg)
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MattR
post Jan 21 2005, 05:39 PM
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Yes, I understand that, but why does that have to do with it being mid engine (versus front engine or rear engine). If its not a mid-engine car, what is it? The engine (cg) definatly doesnt sit in front of the front axles, or behind the rear axles.

By that logic a Ferrari 246 dino isnt mid engine??? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif)
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redshift
post Jan 21 2005, 05:42 PM
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No, a Dino is a 'true' mid-engined car.

There is a big difference between sitting just in front of vs just over the axles.


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MattR
post Jan 21 2005, 05:44 PM
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The CG of the engine is in front of the axles though. Not as much as a 914, but when you open the lid of a MR2 (my buddy has a mk2), you're definatly look at an engine thats placed in front of the axles.

Would you consider the MR2 a rear engine (sorry for the typo) car? Even though the name means "Mid engine Rear 2 wheel drive"?
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eeyore
post Jan 21 2005, 05:45 PM
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I think the point of exclusion of the MR2 trans solution is that it is a transverse engine, with a transverse transmission. The V8s in question are intended for fore-aft installation, not side-side.
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MattR
post Jan 21 2005, 05:49 PM
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I know its not a solution for the 914, Im just disputing the MR2 not being a mid engine car.
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redshift
post Jan 21 2005, 05:50 PM
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QUOTE (MattR @ Jan 21 2005, 07:44 PM)
Would you consider the MR2 a rear wheel drive car?  Even though the name means "Mid engine Rear 2 wheel drive"?

You mean consider it a mid-engined car?

Never.

Lamborghini Muiras have transverse mounted 12s, and until the SA/SV, the transaxle and motor shared oil, and were one unit... not that it's important to this conversation, but that is the only super-duper transverse mounting I know of.... or can think of off the top of this thing I keep what's left of my brain in.

Oh, but the Muira is a mid-engined car... the package is well forward of the rear axles.

Look at the MR2 motor/trans package assembly... the CG is about 3 feet off the ground.. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)


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MattR
post Jan 21 2005, 05:55 PM
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Im not disputing z axis CG. I know the car is crap (compared to our treasures (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)). But check out this picture. I think it explains what Im talking about.

(IMG:http://www.enetconsulting.com/tropsmr2/p5130001.jpg)

Check out the position of the center of gravity (XY plane) in relation to the position of the struts.
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MattR
post Jan 21 2005, 05:56 PM
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Here's another image:

(IMG:http://www.spyderchat.com/spyderimages/mr-stech3.gif)
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redshift
post Jan 21 2005, 05:58 PM
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Draw a line at the rear of the front tires, and another at the front of the rear tires..

That is what I am talking about.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)


M
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lapuwali
post Jan 21 2005, 05:58 PM
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This really is just splitting hairs. I've always considered the MR2 to be mid-engined. The engine is behind the seats, but there's a trunk behind it, and you can't reach much of anything in the engine bay from above, only from below. Pretty much like a 914. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

By Mike's definition, using a Mini drivetrain would make it mid-engined. The entire Mini gearbox was directly under the crank. The clutch was on the end. But the diff hung out the back, so the complete engine/gearbox was entirely in front of the axles.

If the crank is forward of the diff, it's mid-engined. If the crank is aft of the diff, it's rear-engined. That's my definition...
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redshift
post Jan 21 2005, 06:03 PM
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After studying the pic a little longer... I came up with that same thought... but..

I think the class needs a little more clarification.. like Mid-1, Mid-2...

A true mid-engined car, by definition (I have read) has the passenger compartment, and the powertrain between the axle lines, front-and-rear.

Having a trunk sure makes it tough! I have obsessed enough!


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MattR
post Jan 21 2005, 06:07 PM
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QUOTE (redshift @ Jan 21 2005, 03:58 PM)
Draw a line at the rear of the front tires, and another at the front of the rear tires..

That is what I am talking about.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)


M

Why do the tires define the location of the engine? Would putting smaller tires on the car change its engine location? It should be measured from the center of the tire, where the forces are applied.


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