914 brake upgrade options |
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914 brake upgrade options |
75porsche914 |
Jul 21 2014, 07:57 PM
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#1
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 40 Joined: 2-June 13 From: santa monica Member No.: 15,945 Region Association: None |
Hi, would love some recommendations regarding upgrading my brakes w/o braking the bank so to speak.
I recently upgraded to a 911 master brake pump or is it know as a cylinder and stainless steel brake lines. Changes my brake fluid reservoir to a new OEM Porsche one so the front trunks looks nice and new. So before I go rebuilding and making my current calipers all nice and shiny, what other options do I have to improve my braking performance? Can I go 911 brake calipers w/o having to change my whole front suspension to 911 suspension? I appreciate everyone's advice. I will post pictures soon, my car has been a two year journey and quite a story to get her where she is today. Many ups and downs, and almost 100% restored, bigger bored 2.0 now 2.4, new interior, paint, konis, springs, stereo, the works... Originally 52,000 now 55,000 mile original car. 75 2.0 now with back dated bumpers and many other items, so I call it Zambezi green , although a 75 was known as Forrest green. Finally proud to drive her around town. Been a hobby, passion, obsession and many reasons for past arguments regarding my income investments. Thanks for your recommendations. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) |
mepstein |
Jul 21 2014, 08:19 PM
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#2
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914-6 GT in waiting Group: Members Posts: 19,238 Joined: 19-September 09 From: Landenberg, PA/Wilmington, DE Member No.: 10,825 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
19mm reduces stopping power. It was used with the larger pistons on 911 brake calipers. SS brake lines are also a downgrade compared to dot rubber hoses. All stock oem is your best bet unless you spend big $.
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bdstone914 |
Jul 21 2014, 08:32 PM
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#3
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bdstone914 Group: Members Posts: 4,512 Joined: 8-November 03 From: Riverside CA Member No.: 1,319 |
Better pads is the best upgrade. Nothing wrong with using a 19mm master. Mainly changes the pedal travel and feel of the brakes. Does not reduce or improve stopping power. Stainless lines mainly have being appeal. No affect on braking. You could add 911 M calipers for solid rotors and have more pad area and larger pistons in the front.
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ClayPerrine |
Jul 21 2014, 09:19 PM
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#4
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Life's been good to me so far..... Group: Admin Posts: 15,410 Joined: 11-September 03 From: Hurst, TX. Member No.: 1,143 Region Association: NineFourteenerVille |
On the front you have to change the struts if you want to go to 911 rotors. The spindle on the 914 4 lug struts is smaller than the one on the 911 5 lug. There use to be bearings you could buy with the proper ID and OD to adapt the 911 hubs to the 914 struts, but they discontinued the inboard bearing a few years back.
On the rear, you can bolt on any 911 caliper you want, but you will lose the park brake. You can add the 911 style park brake, but that is more expense. If you have a 4 cylinder, and want to keep it a 4 lug, then just get a set of rebuilt calipers from Eric, buy some new rotors and some good pads, and make sure you replace the flexible lines. The stopping power is far better than almost anything made in the 70s, and it will outbrake a lot of modern cars with the stock brakes. |
Dave_Darling |
Jul 21 2014, 09:19 PM
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#5
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914 Idiot Group: Members Posts: 14,981 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Silicon Valley / Kailua-Kona Member No.: 121 Region Association: Northern California |
Better tires. If you can lock up your brakes, they have done everything they can for you in that application. To slow down quicker, you need better tires at that point. (If you can't lock your brakes up, your brake system has problems that should be fixed.)
Remember--brakes stop the wheels. Tires stop the car. --DD |
mgp4591 |
Jul 21 2014, 09:31 PM
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#6
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,366 Joined: 1-August 12 From: Salt Lake City Ut Member No.: 14,748 Region Association: Intermountain Region |
Braided stainless lines do look pretty but the good ones also reduce hose flex and support the internals. Firms up the pedal somewhat and protects the outer sheath. I've had them on a couple of cars and really like the feel, don't mind the bling neither IMHO. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)
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75porsche914 |
Jul 21 2014, 11:10 PM
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#7
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 40 Joined: 2-June 13 From: santa monica Member No.: 15,945 Region Association: None |
I totally appreciate everyone's experience and suggestions. Will print this and speak to my mechanic in the morning. I owe everyone pictures, and look forward to meeting additional 914 members (the good ones, most are on this site) in the future.
Thanks again. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) |
swooshdave |
Jul 21 2014, 11:38 PM
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 184 Joined: 11-June 14 From: Portland Member No.: 17,475 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
I've never seen the braided line dismissed like I have here. Is this from people using crappy braided lines? There are good ones out there.
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ripper911 |
Jul 22 2014, 05:25 AM
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#9
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corde pulsum tangite Group: Members Posts: 2,920 Joined: 25-April 10 From: Powder Springs, GA Member No.: 11,654 Region Association: South East States |
I think that it's because you can't see the condition of the inner portion of the hose, so people leave them on thinking they are good still when they are cracking internally.
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rick 918-S |
Jul 22 2014, 08:11 AM
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#10
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Hey nice rack! -Celette Group: Members Posts: 20,420 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Now in Superior WI Member No.: 43 Region Association: Northstar Region |
Nothing wrong with new stainless lines. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) that the glaring use is the internal condition. They are intended for off road use. Guys that race are less likely to leave them on the car until the inside turns into mush and they are cracked on the outer surface under the braiding.
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JawjaPorsche |
Jul 22 2014, 08:39 AM
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#11
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,463 Joined: 23-July 11 From: Clayton, Georgia Member No.: 13,351 Region Association: South East States |
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race914 |
Jul 22 2014, 09:06 AM
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#12
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73 914-4 Group: Members Posts: 1,006 Joined: 31-October 05 From: Nipomo, California (Central Coast) Member No.: 5,027 Region Association: Central California |
I'll add a BIG +1 on PMB Performance. Eric can definitely help you out.
PMB Performance I currently have stock rear calipers, and the fronts I upgraded to 911 Struts and M calipers so I could run vented rotors. The front upgrades weren't a big cost if you shop around the classifieds and watch for fair prices. I also run a 19mm Master Cylinder, and Pagid Orange pads. That combo works great. Here is my new setup from PMB. Not the least cost option.... But overtime I'm going for the 914- 6 GT setup and saved up for awhile to make this happen. They go on later this summer. Still need to get the rear vented rotors and then my shopping list is complete. Front S Calipers Rear Alloy 914-6 GT with emergency brakes |
brant |
Jul 22 2014, 09:14 AM
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#13
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 11,612 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Colorado Member No.: 47 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
really good pads, like the R4S
and good tires new quality fluid too |
0396 |
Jul 22 2014, 11:16 AM
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#14
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,046 Joined: 13-October 03 From: L.A. Calif Member No.: 1,245 Region Association: Southern California |
19mm reduces stopping power. It was used with the larger pistons on 911 brake calipers. SS brake lines are also a downgrade compared to dot rubber hoses. All stock oem is your best bet unless you spend big $. If I follow your though process, your 914-6 GT will have 17mm master ? Bdstone's advice is spot on. |
mepstein |
Jul 22 2014, 12:32 PM
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#15
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914-6 GT in waiting Group: Members Posts: 19,238 Joined: 19-September 09 From: Landenberg, PA/Wilmington, DE Member No.: 10,825 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
19mm reduces stopping power. It was used with the larger pistons on 911 brake calipers. SS brake lines are also a downgrade compared to dot rubber hoses. All stock oem is your best bet unless you spend big $. If I follow your though process, your 914-6 GT will have 17mm master ? Bdstone's advice is spot on. No, my gt has brake calipers with larger pistons, just like Porsche did on the real 914-6. I'm not an engineer but I do know fluid pressure will decrease when you increase the mc piston diameter. Try going to a 23mm mc on your otherwise stock setup and tell me what happens. There isn't a big difference going to a 19mm mc but there is some, otherwise the pedal "feel" would stay the same. A 15mm mc would provide even greater pressure to the calipers but at the expense of softer pedal and greater travel. As jake would say- or Eric, it's all in the combo. I'll stand by my statement that a larger mc is a downgrade. |
ConeDodger |
Jul 22 2014, 12:50 PM
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#16
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Apex killer! Group: Members Posts: 23,558 Joined: 31-December 04 From: Tahoe Area Member No.: 3,380 Region Association: Northern California |
Better pads is the best upgrade. Nothing wrong with using a 19mm master. Mainly changes the pedal travel and feel of the brakes. Does not reduce or improve stopping power. Stainless lines mainly have being appeal. No affect on braking. You could add 911 M calipers for solid rotors and have more pad area and larger pistons in the front. Main advantage to the 19mm master cylinder is cost new for new... The 17mm is much more expensive if you can even find one. 19mm Changes pedal travel, feel, and effort. In a week, you won't remember... |
infraredcalvin |
Jul 22 2014, 01:50 PM
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#17
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Distracted Member Group: Members Posts: 1,507 Joined: 25-August 08 From: Ladera Ranch, CA Member No.: 9,463 Region Association: Southern California |
Better pads is the best upgrade. Nothing wrong with using a 19mm master. Mainly changes the pedal travel and feel of the brakes. Does not reduce or improve stopping power. Stainless lines mainly have being appeal. No affect on braking. You could add 911 M calipers for solid rotors and have more pad area and larger pistons in the front. Main advantage to the 19mm master cylinder is cost new for new... The 17mm is much more expensive if you can even find one. 19mm Changes pedal travel, feel, and effort. In a week, you won't remember... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) To the OP: what are you trying to accomplish/what are you not satisfied with? If you're just looking for a firmer pedal, the 19mm mc and an otherwise tip top stock braking system is more than adequate. If you're an agressive driver, hard on brakes and heat them up, then you'll want to look at "bigger" (pistons & rotors). Just a matter of cost at that point. |
GeorgeRud |
Jul 22 2014, 01:59 PM
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#18
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,725 Joined: 27-July 05 From: Chicagoland Member No.: 4,482 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
I think the best thing you can do for your brakes is simply keep them well bled and change the fluid regularly. Unless you want to spend a lot of money, use Porsche's engineering expertise when they first designed the system.
As one that has had a braided brake line fail on him (thankfully not on the track in an emergency situation), I am a firm believer in the original DOT lines. I think most of the sponginess in the brake system feel is due to air in the system (they can be a real bear to bleed properly), and perhaps also some flexing of the brake master cylinder mounting sheet metal. I hardly agree that a call to Eric at PMB will lead you on the right path. Dave's comments on the tires stopping the car is also very wise advice. |
Eric_Shea |
Jul 22 2014, 02:23 PM
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#19
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PMB Performance Group: Admin Posts: 19,274 Joined: 3-September 03 From: Salt Lake City, UT Member No.: 1,110 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
There hardly any difference between the 19 and the 17. Big overblown Internet whoodoo.
Get a 19, they're cheaper and will probably feel better in the long run. |
Spoke |
Jul 22 2014, 02:33 PM
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#20
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Jerry Group: Members Posts: 6,973 Joined: 29-October 04 From: Allentown, PA Member No.: 3,031 Region Association: None |
I've never seen the braided line dismissed like I have here. Is this from people using crappy braided lines? There are good ones out there. I removed the braided lines on my car after changing to 911 front end. While working on the front end, as I moved the strut from lock to lock (left to right), I noticed the stiff braided line was bending the mounting tab on the chassis and also bending the steel line as well. |
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