914 brake upgrade options Options

[75porsche914]

Hi, would love some recommendations regarding upgrading my brakes w/o braking the bank so to speak.

I recently upgraded to a 911 master brake pump or is it know as a cylinder and stainless steel brake lines. Changes my brake fluid reservoir to a new OEM Porsche one so the front trunks looks nice and new.

So before I go rebuilding and making my current calipers all nice and shiny, what other options do I have to improve my braking performance?

Can I go 911 brake calipers w/o having to change my whole front suspension to 911 suspension?

I appreciate everyone's advice.

I will post pictures soon, my car has been a two year journey and quite a story to get her where she is today. Many ups and downs, and almost 100% restored, bigger bored 2.0 now 2.4, new interior, paint, konis, springs, stereo, the works... Originally 52,000 now 55,000 mile original car. 75 2.0 now with back dated bumpers and many other items, so I call it Zambezi green , although a 75 was known as Forrest green. Finally proud to drive her around town.

Been a hobby, passion, obsession and many reasons for past arguments regarding my income investments.

Thanks for your recommendations.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[mepstein]

19mm reduces stopping power. It was used with the larger pistons on 911 brake calipers. SS brake lines are also a downgrade compared to dot rubber hoses. All stock oem is your best bet unless you spend big $.

[bdstone914]

Better pads is the best upgrade. Nothing wrong with using a 19mm master. Mainly changes the pedal travel and feel of the brakes. Does not reduce or improve stopping power. Stainless lines mainly have being appeal. No affect on braking. You could add 911 M calipers for solid rotors and have more pad area and larger pistons in the front.

[ClayPerrine]

On the front you have to change the struts if you want to go to 911 rotors. The spindle on the 914 4 lug struts is smaller than the one on the 911 5 lug. There use to be bearings you could buy with the proper ID and OD to adapt the 911 hubs to the 914 struts, but they discontinued the inboard bearing a few years back.


On the rear, you can bolt on any 911 caliper you want, but you will lose the park brake. You can add the 911 style park brake, but that is more expense.

If you have a 4 cylinder, and want to keep it a 4 lug, then just get a set of rebuilt calipers from Eric, buy some new rotors and some good pads, and make sure you replace the flexible lines. The stopping power is far better than almost anything made in the 70s, and it will outbrake a lot of modern cars with the stock brakes.

[Dave_Darling]

Better tires. If you can lock up your brakes, they have done everything they can for you in that application. To slow down quicker, you need better tires at that point. (If you can't lock your brakes up, your brake system has problems that should be fixed.)

Remember--brakes stop the wheels. Tires stop the car.

--DD

[mgp4591]

Braided stainless lines do look pretty but the good ones also reduce hose flex and support the internals. Firms up the pedal somewhat and protects the outer sheath. I've had them on a couple of cars and really like the feel, don't mind the bling neither IMHO. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[75porsche914]

I totally appreciate everyone's experience and suggestions. Will print this and speak to my mechanic in the morning. I owe everyone pictures, and look forward to meeting additional 914 members (the good ones, most are on this site) in the future.

Thanks again. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[swooshdave]

I've never seen the braided line dismissed like I have here. Is this from people using crappy braided lines? There are good ones out there.

[ripper911]

I think that it's because you can't see the condition of the inner portion of the hose, so people leave them on thinking they are good still when they are cracking internally.

[rick 918-S]

Nothing wrong with new stainless lines. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) that the glaring use is the internal condition. They are intended for off road use. Guys that race are less likely to leave them on the car until the inside turns into mush and they are cracked on the outer surface under the braiding.

[JawjaPorsche]

I would contact

http://www.pmbperformance.com/teener.html

They can help you will all your needs.

Terry

[race914]

I'll add a BIG +1 on PMB Performance. Eric can definitely help you out.

PMB Performance

I currently have stock rear calipers, and the fronts I upgraded to 911 Struts and M calipers so I could run vented rotors. The front upgrades weren't a big cost if you shop around the classifieds and watch for fair prices. I also run a 19mm Master Cylinder, and Pagid Orange pads. That combo works great.

Here is my new setup from PMB. Not the least cost option.... But overtime I'm going for the 914- 6 GT setup and saved up for awhile to make this happen. They go on later this summer. Still need to get the rear vented rotors and then my shopping list is complete.

Front S Calipers



Rear Alloy 914-6 GT with emergency brakes

[brant]

really good pads, like the R4S
and good tires
new quality fluid too

[0396]

19mm reduces stopping power. It was used with the larger pistons on 911 brake calipers. SS brake lines are also a downgrade compared to dot rubber hoses. All stock oem is your best bet unless you spend big $.

If I follow your though process, your 914-6 GT will have 17mm master ?
Bdstone's advice is spot on.

[mepstein]

19mm reduces stopping power. It was used with the larger pistons on 911 brake calipers. SS brake lines are also a downgrade compared to dot rubber hoses. All stock oem is your best bet unless you spend big $.

If I follow your though process, your 914-6 GT will have 17mm master ?
Bdstone's advice is spot on.

No, my gt has brake calipers with larger pistons, just like Porsche did on the real 914-6. I'm not an engineer but I do know fluid pressure will decrease when you increase the mc piston diameter. Try going to a 23mm mc on your otherwise stock setup and tell me what happens. There isn't a big difference going to a 19mm mc but there is some, otherwise the pedal "feel" would stay the same. A 15mm mc would provide even greater pressure to the calipers but at the expense of softer pedal and greater travel. As jake would say- or Eric, it's all in the combo.
I'll stand by my statement that a larger mc is a downgrade.

[ConeDodger]

Better pads is the best upgrade. Nothing wrong with using a 19mm master. Mainly changes the pedal travel and feel of the brakes. Does not reduce or improve stopping power. Stainless lines mainly have being appeal. No affect on braking. You could add 911 M calipers for solid rotors and have more pad area and larger pistons in the front.

Main advantage to the 19mm master cylinder is cost new for new... The 17mm is much more expensive if you can even find one. 19mm Changes pedal travel, feel, and effort. In a week, you won't remember...

[infraredcalvin]

Better pads is the best upgrade. Nothing wrong with using a 19mm master. Mainly changes the pedal travel and feel of the brakes. Does not reduce or improve stopping power. Stainless lines mainly have being appeal. No affect on braking. You could add 911 M calipers for solid rotors and have more pad area and larger pistons in the front.

Main advantage to the 19mm master cylinder is cost new for new... The 17mm is much more expensive if you can even find one. 19mm Changes pedal travel, feel, and effort. In a week, you won't remember...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

To the OP: what are you trying to accomplish/what are you not satisfied with? If you're just looking for a firmer pedal, the 19mm mc and an otherwise tip top stock braking system is more than adequate. If you're an agressive driver, hard on brakes and heat them up, then you'll want to look at "bigger" (pistons & rotors). Just a matter of cost at that point.

[GeorgeRud]

I think the best thing you can do for your brakes is simply keep them well bled and change the fluid regularly. Unless you want to spend a lot of money, use Porsche's engineering expertise when they first designed the system.

As one that has had a braided brake line fail on him (thankfully not on the track in an emergency situation), I am a firm believer in the original DOT lines. I think most of the sponginess in the brake system feel is due to air in the system (they can be a real bear to bleed properly), and perhaps also some flexing of the brake master cylinder mounting sheet metal.

I hardly agree that a call to Eric at PMB will lead you on the right path. Dave's comments on the tires stopping the car is also very wise advice.

[Eric_Shea]

There hardly any difference between the 19 and the 17. Big overblown Internet whoodoo.

Get a 19, they're cheaper and will probably feel better in the long run.

[Spoke]

I've never seen the braided line dismissed like I have here. Is this from people using crappy braided lines? There are good ones out there.

I removed the braided lines on my car after changing to 911 front end. While working on the front end, as I moved the strut from lock to lock (left to right), I noticed the stiff braided line was bending the mounting tab on the chassis and also bending the steel line as well.