Car has spark! My suby setup, Now just dbl checking all wires to be sure load are good before running Options

[JRust]

Okay so my wrench called last night. Car was all finished & he went to fire it up. Turns over fine but no start. This is what it was doing before the fire. Also off & on it has plagued me since I got the car. I've replaced the ignition with multiple times. I added a push button for the starter to take that off the switch. Seemed like there was to much power going through it which I thought was from the starter. Obviously it is not.

One thing is almost without fail as soon as I put in a new switch & use it I get smoke from it every time. It would be fine right after the brief smoke so I didnt worry to much about it. What else is feeding the ignition switch that may be pushing to much power through it? What do you guys recommend doing here? Cutting out the switch completely? Do you think the problem lies somewhere besides the switch?

[rhodyguy]

You get smoke or the smell of in the interior every time you start the car? Don't try to start the car!

[rhodyguy]

You get smoke or the smell of in the interior every time you start the car? Don't try to start the car!

[JRust]

You get smoke or the smell of in the interior every time you start the car? Don't try to start the car!

No for a second when I install a new switch. It comes from the new switch. Only does it once

[madmax914]

Jamie, have you talked to the guys at Outfront? If I recall you're using an EMS unit from them. I'm thinking they've seen just about everything with these motors.

[r_towle]

So,

You shod have four red wired coming from the battery to the ignition switch.
I believe at least two of them are switched power at the ignition switch.

If it was me, I would remove one of those wires and use a 30 amp toggle switch for both the fuel pump and ECU/ ignition setup you have.

So, like a race car, when you get in you would turn on the key ( lights etc) toggle switch for fuel, toggle switch for ignition, then push button for starter.

If it was me, and I suspected the wiring, I would run three brand new red wires through the tunnel and up to the toggle switch and push button so you know for sure they are not grounding out in the tunnel somewhere.
Rich

[r_towle]

If you are trying to keep it stock looking with just the key, I would suggest you use a relay for the starter, ignition, ECU, and fuel pump.

These old ignition switches, the the junk they spare now selling as replacement switches just cannot stand up to the larger power requirements you are demanding with the new ECU and ignition, and fuel pump.

relays are your friend here.

Rich

[JRust]

I did add a relay for the starter. I have not for anything else. I'm sending Mike at SubiTech a link to this thread. I appreciate all the input

[r_towle]

Your new ignition and new ECU is probably drawing far more current then that switch can support.
If you install relays for each circuit, you will then reduce the amps running through the switch and it will last a lot longer.

[rhodyguy]

jamie, have you spoken with the p.o. as to whether he experienced this current problem? did you make any alterations or add anything to the electrical system post purchase?

[76-914]

Jamie, when the new switch smokes, is it after you re-connect the battery or when you turn the switch to the start position? If it's when you turn the key I'd check that yellow wire for a short. As long as you've got your ohm meter out what is the resistance from terminal end to terminal end of that yellow wire?
Rich is right, Get those two Red wires fused! Muy importante, amigo. PM me if I can help you any. Kent

[JRust]

jamie, have you spoken with the p.o. as to whether he experienced this current problem? did you make any alterations or add anything to the electrical system post purchase?

Dean did go through multiple ignition switches. He did not put many miles on it overall. So I think it showed for me much more as I just used it more often. I think it got worse as time went on also. I will definitely make sure there is a fuse on the 2 red wires. I believe I had a fuse on them before by the battery.

Adding more relays to each part of the ignition makes sense.

[Subietech]

Hello 914 world.

Subietech here. Im new to this forum and I am the one working on Jamie's car.

Jamie was referred to me by Outfront Motorsports. I have worked a lot with them in the past and they know and trust my work. That being said, Im a Subaru mechanic with a background in Performance and VW Vanagon swaps so as you can imagine, The 914 is a little new to me.

The ECU and harness install was pretty straight forward.

In my head, I'm thinking a bad ground and or bad ignition. Ive gone over all of the grounds in the engine bay and all seem good with the exception of some thick paint (most likely not an issue)

I do get a god awful sound and vibration from the fuel pump with the key turned on. Thinking it was maybe a bad ground at the fuel pump. I relocated it to a location with no paint. Still no spark and no change in noise or vibration.

Now I am in the process of replacing the ignition switch. If I get a spark, I am going to ad a 30amp toggle to both the fuel pump and ECU/ ignition as r_towle suggested and hope that it last though more then a "few" on/off cycles.

The four Red wires going to the battery were melted in the fire. as were most of the wires that come together just behind the Fire wall. I cut out the bad sections and patched it all up. if the new ignition switch doesn't work, I going to pull the four red wires and go from there.

If anyone has any other ideas, or has had this issue come up in the past. Please don't hesitate to chime in. At this point I'm seeing wires in my sleep.

(Jamie, Im heading to LA for Xmas.. I am gonna talk it over with the guys at Outfront and see what we can come up with.. I ordered the Ignition switch so once I get back up to Bend ill pop it in and cross my fingers…)


Happy Holidays everyone~

Mike
SubieTech Headquarters
542-213-8549
subietech.net

[r_towle]

Run one very large red lead from the battery up to underneath the dashboard.
Mount that to a multi terminal isolation block.
Run short red wires from there.

Check the ground strap on the rear of the transmission to the body, it's very important.
Check the main ground at the fuse panel, drivers side inner fender, way up in there, hard to see, on your back....

It's a simple circuit, ignition needs the right level of power to the ECU or ignition module.
Give it that power outside of the entire keyed switch setup and see if it starts first, just use a fused jumper lead.
If that checks out and you know the ECU or ignition module is ok, follow that lead backwards.

Provide the ECU with a very good ground.
Sometimes they use switched ground instead of switched power for an ECU, so read the manual before you wire it up.

Build a positive and negative lead right to the battery, test each system.

Rich

[JRust]

Check the ground strap on the rear of the transmission to the body, it's very important.
Check the main ground at the fuse panel, drivers side inner fender, way up in there, hard to see, on your back....

The tranny is a suby. I am not sure now that you mentioned it if the ground was done differently or what (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) .

[r_towle]

Starter and engine need to be grounded to the body, battery needs to be grounded to the body.
All body circuits, lights etc are grounded to the body ( everything except the starter)
So, take a look.

[DBCooper]

Wait a minute, am I understanding this correctly? Your car has had an electrical fire that caused a lot of damage, and you've had repeated "smoke" in the cabin but you don't know why? Now you're trying to find out why you aren't getting spark but you still don't know why you've been getting smoke? After a fire? I'm sure there's something I missed there. No?

[JRust]

Wait a minute, am I understanding this correctly? Your car has had an electrical fire that caused a lot of damage, and you've had repeated "smoke" in the cabin but you don't know why? Now you're trying to find out why you aren't getting spark but you still don't know why you've been getting smoke? After a fire? I'm sure there's something I missed there. No?

I have gotten a puff of smoke from the new switch on install. I have not had smoke in the cab regularly or a lot of it. Yes it did happen with multiple new switches. They also all worked after. I thought it might be common with the new cheap switches. Since after that initial puff it all worked. This was also spread out over a year.

Is it possible this ignition issue caused my fire in the trunk? Considering none of my electrical fire came into the cab wiring. It was isolated in the rear trunk & down to the battery. The ignition wasn't turned on in any way when the fire started. I don't know what caused it.

Yes I am trying to figure out what is going on with my ignition. I obviously don't want to have anything to do with another fire period. Thats why I asked for some input. Also another reason I sent it to a shop.

So if your point was to make me feel shitty for the fire I had in my car. I've been feeling that way since it happened (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) . I'm trying to move on & get my car fixed. I appreciate any input that helps me get there

[Tom]

Jamie,
You need to have another electrician who has experience working on autos check out your wiring issues. From what I have read here, the ones you now have are missing some issues that need to be checked in a better way than hooking up the power and seeing if it works or smokes. Please do this before there is another fire!
The first thing that needs to be done is to remove the wires for the switched loads,( the loads are what the switch sends power to) and check each one with a multi-meter to see how much current it will draw. The battery needs to be disconnected to do this. You will be reading each load wire to ground to see what the ohm reading is. The lower the ohmic value, the higher the current will be. If the loads exceed the rated capacity of the switch, then you will need to install relays or a heavier duty ignition switch ( which is probably not available). If your ignition switch wiring is stock, there is one large red wire that goes to the switch and several that are loads.
Tom

[DBCooper]

Sorry, don't want to make you feel bad, but a puff of smoke isn't normal. You know "where there's smoke...", so I really think you should make finding out what's causing that a priority. Maybe it's nothing, but you need to know.