NPC - Ye Olde Vanagon Thread, Let's (try to) rebuild a WBX engine Options

[euro911]

I replaced the starter and bell-housing bushing on Eileen yesterday. Geezus, what a job. I had to remove the air-box, snorkel a bunch of hoses and the throttle body to get the nut off of the top starter bolt (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Good thing though, there was a 90° rubber elbow down in the mess that had some real bad splits in it, so I crazy-glued it, clamped it, and when it was dry, hit the exterior with liquid tape, then finished it off with heat-shrink tubing.

Also cleaned the throttle body and installed a new cone-gasket (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Gave her a bath this morning and a guy and his son came down from Santa Barbara to check it out this afternoon This would be for the son, who just turned 16.

They liked it, but have a couple others they're going to look at before making a decision. Pops said it had more pep than some others they looked at. The son doesn't know how to shift a stick, but pops said he's willing to learn.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[euro911]

I've been under my Westy this weekend installing the Gowesty stainless coolant line kit and a new gas tank. That means all of the fuel system is new and the major coolant stuff has been handled. I'm doing everything forward of the firewall so she's ready for a Suby when the Water Boxer poops the bed....
This has been one of the bigest PITA jobs I've done on any car! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Mike, if you haven't already done so, think about getting the metal fuel line pass-through for the rear firewall bulkhead




... the OEM plastic ones are a potential fire hazard (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[rhodyguy]

What a crappy design with the factory part.

[euro911]

You mean, like plastic fuel tubing in the 914 tunnel?

Ya, ya, und plastik tubink ist vunderbar (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Chris H.]

Wow the metal fuel thing is a work of art. Nice looking part! Where do you get that?

Hey Mark (or anyone (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) ), how is a manual Vanagon to drive? Is it kind of a beast to wrestle with or not so bad? The pedals are pretty far apart which looks challenging...maybe being in a seated position it's fine. Not sure. Drove a bay window a few times but that was LONG ago and it was pretty whipped.

[KELTY360]

Wow the metal fuel thing is a work of art. Nice looking part! Where do you get that?

Hey Mark (or anyone (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) ), how is a manual Vanagon to drive? Is it kind of a beast to wrestle with or not so bad? The pedals are pretty far apart which looks challenging...maybe being in a seated position it's fine. Not sure. Drove a bay window a few times but that was LONG ago and it was pretty whipped.

I've always liked driving a manual Vanagon, whether wbx or EG33. Handling is easy with near 50/50 weight distribution. For a time I was driving mine without the p/s belt on and barely noticed a difference. Never noticed any issues with pedal position although I've had my foot slip off the clutch when my boots were wet.

[euro911]

Chris, the part is called a fuel spigot, available from Foreign Auto Supply for $60. - CLICK HERE

The manual trans shifts fine - smooth and easy. I can only say how a well running 1.9L performs though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) ... maybe some day I'll drive one with real power (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

[Chris H.]

Cool thanks guys. Was initially thinking about an auto but reading about them they shift around 2500 RPM max unless you take it apart and modify it. Hmmm...not the best project for me to do.

This layout just looks "different" but again, you're in a fully seated position. Probably works better.

[Tom_T]

Cool thanks guys. Was initially thinking about an auto but reading about them they shift around 2500 RPM max unless you take it apart and modify it. Hmmm...not the best project for me to do.

This layout just looks "different" but again, you're in a fully seated position. Probably works better.

PS - less chance of pedal confusion too with the wider set clutch & brake, vs. the typical Euro car layout (& domestic compacts), but close to the old school 1950-80's Detroit full & mid-size car pedal spacing.

PSS - In re-reading your post, there are shift point adjustments for the auto without tearing the auto apart, as you'd been told/read - that's just BS or over-kill or lack of knowledge. We did go thru a couple of rounds of those adjustments with my long time mechanic (40 yrs.) after the trans rebuild, just to get it shifting when & how we liked it. So that also is not a valid reason to shy away from the autos. They're pretty bulletproof & generally longer lasting than manuals to needing a rebuild (the manuals' synchros often need replaced at 120-150k), & the mph & mpg losses are only a couple of miles for each. It's really NOT an issue for a qualified & knowledgeable mechanic! Get an auto if you prefer, or a manual, or whichever example is best condition - auto or stick.

PSSS - Also somebody did a very nice job on the Wheelskins on that steering wheel in your pic!

Chris,

You probably had heard about autos which were due for a rebuild due to age & mileage, since they do lose performance then.

We've had our `88 Westy since new 4/88 & have loved it as an auto, which we got because it was my wife's DD & she wanted an auto, plus it then served as both kids' learning car when they started driving ... in addition to annual long XC trips & local camping etc. It runs fine & has close to manual performance & mpg, but it did get a bit weaker & started to have that 2500 rpm shifting issue when it got about 190-200k, so we had it rebuilt & it is running like new since.

The bigger issues with auto or manual is it being a 4000+ lb (45-5000 loaded & wet Westy) "brick on wheels" which is severely under powered. So you either learn to go with the flow, or up-engine!

The choice should really be based on which tranny you & the other household drivers want - & being used cars only now, what the best available car is - i.e.: I would not pass up a really nice auto for a lesser manual.

Also, the Synchro only came manual, so that limits your choices for that variant if you need AWD, & it's proven to be a very good AWD/4WD system. We had to pass on a same color Synchro Westy at the dealership & ask for a dealer swap, due to my wife's needing the auto.

So don't back away from auto's due to some bad examples & bad raps by owners who don't bother to maintain or rebuild them when they get old & worn. That's like a manual owner complaining about hard shifting when the synchros are worn & that trans needs rebuilt. They all wear out!

Good Luck in your search! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[OU8AVW]

I've been under my Westy this weekend installing the Gowesty stainless coolant line kit and a new gas tank. That means all of the fuel system is new and the major coolant stuff has been handled. I'm doing everything forward of the firewall so she's ready for a Suby when the Water Boxer poops the bed....
This has been one of the bigest PITA jobs I've done on any car! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Mike, if you haven't already done so, think about getting the metal fuel line pass-through for the rear firewall bulkhead




... the OEM plastic ones are a potential fire hazard (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

My kit omitted the pass though and used a grommet.

[OU8AVW]

The Vanagon auto has a good reputation. I'm actually impressed with mine. I bought everything but the trans to convert it over to a 4 speed, still debating.

[pete000]

Lots of plastic in the Vanagon. Check out the fuel rails. I am going to replace mine with 914 metal ones. Although I have never heard of a failure.

Also the cooling system thermostat housing is plastic and fails. Billet versions are available.

The main coolant lines are all plastic and fail. SS ones are available.

I like this billet fuel line part. Has anyone heard of the plastic part failing?

[Chris H.]

Great info. Finally found where I read the info on the automatic trans with conversions. It was on the Kennedy Site:

Kennedy Vanagon info

AUTOMATIC TRANS. The Vanagon automatic transaxle can handle these engines just fine except it shifts too soon for high RPM engines. Grinding about half the weight off the governor weights (‘84 and newer) raised the full throttle shift to high gear from 2500 RPM to a practical 5000 RPM. This is a very simple operation. The high pressure produced at this RPM tends to blow up the trans cooler so replace it with a simple bypass block or an aftermarket cooler.

Smallcar makes a trans cooler upgrade to replace the stock one that might blow up at high rpm.

Trans Cooler Upgrade

[euro911]

Lots of plastic in the Vanagon. Check out the fuel rails. I am going to replace mine with 914 metal ones. Although I have never heard of a failure.

Also the cooling system thermostat housing is plastic and fails. Billet versions are available.

The main coolant lines are all plastic and fail. SS ones are available.

I like this billet fuel line part. Has anyone heard of the plastic part failing?

Percentage-wise (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) ... but why take a chance?

[Tom_T]

Great info. Finally found where I read the info on the automatic trans with conversions. It was on the Kennedy Site:

Kennedy Vanagon info

AUTOMATIC TRANS. The Vanagon automatic transaxle can handle these engines just fine except it shifts too soon for high RPM engines. Grinding about half the weight off the governor weights (‘84 and newer) raised the full throttle shift to high gear from 2500 RPM to a practical 5000 RPM. This is a very simple operation. The high pressure produced at this RPM tends to blow up the trans cooler so replace it with a simple bypass block or an aftermarket cooler.

Smallcar makes a trans cooler upgrade to replace the stock one that might blow up at high rpm.

Trans Cooler Upgrade

Chris - that info is out of context for stock 1.9/2.1L Westies/Vanos - since they're talking about mods to make on a non-stock Subie or other higher powered & higher revving motor - not about the stock motor.

My comments & experience are with the stock 2.1 - & the AT works fine with the "built" GoWesty 2.2 - 2.7 WBX motors too.

Oettenger did some AT mods with their WBX-6 too, & Porsche used the G50 5 spd. Carrera transaxle for their B32 Vanagons. So mods would be advisable for upengined Vanos/Westies.

If you're looking at stock Westies, then you don't need to shy away from the Autos.

And the shift points are far from 2500 on ours, as I can hold pedal to the metal & redline ours! If you're lollygagging in traffic, then maybe it'll shift at 2500-3500, but again the shift point can be adjusted without doing the mod noted above.

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[Chris H.]

Thanks Tom. Yeah I would probably put an EZ30 in. EG33 if I found a good one but Subaru guys are getting wise to the value now and are harvesting SVXs. Would only convert one that had a dead/dying engine. Can't hurt to try the auto trans as is but I'd definitely change the trans cooler setup. Not planning any drag races, just like to surprise the occasional stickered Honda Civic driver (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) .

[Tom_T]

Thanks Tom. Yeah I would probably put an EZ30 in. EG33 if I found a good one but Subaru guys are getting wise to the value now and are harvesting SVXs. Would only convert one that had a dead/dying engine. Can't hurt to try the auto trans as is but I'd definitely change the trans cooler setup. Not planning any drag races, just like to surprise the occasional stickered Honda Civic driver (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) .

Chris,

If you're doing the swap, then I'd say do the mods as they suggested, &/or as Oettenger did for their WBX6 (I think they're specs are probably still available from them or online).

Also, if I were to do a Subie swap, I'd say damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead & go with their best 6 (I don't know their engine codes to say which it is).

Heck, if I won the big lottery, then I'd probably send ours off to RUF in Germany to do a proper up-to-date "B32" with a new era 991 6 & all running gear! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

But since I'm not stupid rich & close to retirement, the next engine whenever that is needed will be a GoWesty 2.5/2.45/2.7L upbuild, since I can get a 48 mo/48,000 warranty on it - which is 2x the original VW warranty!

As with 914s - look for the best Vanagon you can find, & note that the pop-tops have better long term value than the tin tops (both Weekender & full Camper). I think our 88 Camper's value report by GoWesty & any appraisal will come in at $35-50-70+K, which is 2-3x what my 73 914-2.0 will be worth when I get it's resto done.

Good Luck! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[Chris H.]

Well, I had to look a long time to find a really homely example but here it is!





BTW that stuff above the wheel arch is MOSS! SERIOUSLY!



So I almost bought one recently that was repainted and needed to be put back together but just couldn't spend the dough. For some reason this one kept poking at me. It had been sitting and needed attention but was allegedly "rust free". So...I pinged Garold and traded some stuff out of my parts stash for a few hours ride out and home with this little piggy. It really has almost NO significant rust. In addition to the usual exterior areas, even the battery area is like new. The odometer says it has 400 THOUSAND miles on it. Have to think it was towed or something. I'll post more pics later. The inside is not bad at all. Outside is a little crusty. It's from south Texas apparently. It needs a water jacket but I plugged a battery in to it and it turned over. As much as I would like to convert it, I might just try to get it running and drive it for a year.

BTW these things are heavy as &(*&! I'm used to cars that weigh 2000+ lbs. We had to get pretty creative to get it off the trailer. And we swore a lot which helped.

Have to say I really enjoyed the journey more than usual. Garold is a great guy to hang out with. As usual he had many cars to gawk at and tons of parts.





Thanks again Garold for a fun couple of days. I admire your commitment to Mom Shaffer, of Moms Service Covers fame.

BTW it's an '84. So I'm learning it will likely need new coolant tubes. Has the lowly 1.9L with 4 speed manual. Interestingly it has a hydraulic clutch. Didn't expect that for some reason. Also interestingly the pedal doesn't move at all (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) . The brake pedal moves plenty though. Like...effortlessly. Doesn't DO anything but it's easy to push. That's OK. I would have gone through everything anyway.

[KELTY360]

Way to go Chris! Unless the leak is really bad, you can drive quite awhile on that head seal. It won't take you long before you want to convert though. Even a 2.0 Subie at 140-160 hp is a big improvement. Better gas mileage too.

How are you going to use it? I may have some wbx parts laying around; exhaust pipes, etc. I'll take a look. Let me know if there's anything in particular you need.

[Chris H.]

Hey thanks Marc! Here are some more pics and then I'll tell you my thoughts, plans, etc. Would love some input.

Battery area (which is under the passenger seat)



Front



Steering wheel is larger in real life



yes, that is 402XXX



This knob has been pilfered:



Rear seat nice, middle seat is missing.



The lock pin for the sliding door is missing on the inside



And the outer door handle is snapped off. Pot metal.



The wheel covers have to go pretty quick. Would like to go 16X7 rims



If I was in to the patina look...this would be an easy one to just shine up