NPC - Ye Olde Vanagon Thread, Let's (try to) rebuild a WBX engine Options

[Tom_T]

We put about 25 of these Carrera powered Vanagons into service with our MSDS conversion kits, from 1990-2000.
This is my '86 awd Syncro, complete with dual zone AC, heat, power steering and diff-lock.
Marty

Marty - so my wife's next question would be: "So would my cute little van be able to tow my cute little trailer with that motor?"

FYI - Her "cute little trailer" is a restored vintage 1960 Avion T20 (similar to Airstream) which weighs about 3000-3500# wet & loaded - maybe 4000# max., but I need to weigh it next trip (dry/empty excl. options factory is 2680#) & it's 21'-6" including the Hensley Cub WD/Anti-sway hitch, with electric drum brakes & I just weighed it with 535# hitch/tongue wt.

We're currently looking at 2006-10 Cayenne S with the V8's for a tow vehicle/3rd car - which looks like will run $18k - $30k, but a well done professional conversion to a "modern" waterboxer Porsche 6 AWD could be very interesting! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

Is anyone doing them now?

Tom
///////

[Mark Henry]

If you want to keep it "VW" and cheap-ish the 1.8/2.0T engine is the way to go.
The ABA engine can be made into a bolt in (well almost) using a bunch of Vanagon diesel kit.


This Google group has all the know how needed
https://sites.google.com/site/t2t3vaggasengineswaps/home

[Tom_T]

Thanx Mark,

But to keep it all OG - either VW or Porsche or otherwise - I'd do either a GoWesty 2.5L with their 48/48 warranty to keep it VW bored/stroked OE WBX4, or the "if I win the big Lotto" pipe dream go the Porsche WBX-6 B32/36 clone or Oettenger WBX6 conversion as the fun.

I doubt that either the Porsche & Oettenger WBX6 routs can be done for what I can get a good use V8 Cayenne S for, since it also involves upgrading the suspension, brakes, wheels/tires, etc. as well - which I'd guess would run more than the $18-30k that we'd spend on a good used `06-10 Cayenne S! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

So the $5-8k GoWesty 2.5L + incidentals for cooling updates/etc. is our lower cost route - whenever the current 2.1L WBX4 needs done next.

We put less than 3k per year on it in the past 3 years, & maybe <20k miles since the top end was done in `05 or `06 - so it may last a while!

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

[Chris H.]

Love it Marty! What trans did you use in those conversions? The motor is a 3.2?

[Mueller]

Thanx Mark,

But to keep it all OG - either VW or Porsche or otherwise - I'd do either a GoWesty 2.5L with their 48/48 warranty to keep it VW bored/stroked OE WBX4, or the "if I win the big Lotto" pipe dream go the Porsche WBX-6 B32/36 clone or Oettenger WBX6 conversion as the fun.

I doubt that either the Porsche & Oettenger WBX6 routs can be done for what I can get a good use V8 Cayenne S for, since it also involves upgrading the suspension, brakes, wheels/tires, etc. as well - which I'd guess would run more than the $18-30k that we'd spend on a good used `06-10 Cayenne S! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

So the $5-8k GoWesty 2.5L + incidentals for cooling updates/etc. is our lower cost route - whenever the current 2.1L WBX4 needs done next.

We put less than 3k per year on it in the past 3 years, & maybe <20k miles since the top end was done in `05 or `06 - so it may last a while!

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

I had to google that!

http://www.corvair.org/chapters/lvcc/lvcc_...fifth_wheel.pdf


pretty neat! How rare and expensive are those motors?

[Mark Henry]

Thanx Mark,

But to keep it all OG - either VW or Porsche or otherwise - I'd do either a GoWesty 2.5L with their 48/48 warranty to keep it VW bored/stroked OE WBX4, or the "if I win the big Lotto" pipe dream go the Porsche WBX-6 B32/36 clone or Oettinger WBX6 conversion as the fun.

I doubt that either the Porsche & Oettenger WBX6 routs can be done for what I can get a good use V8 Cayenne S for, since it also involves upgrading the suspension, brakes, wheels/tires, etc. as well - which I'd guess would run more than the $18-30k that we'd spend on a good used `06-10 Cayenne S! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

So the $5-8k GoWesty 2.5L + incidentals for cooling updates/etc. is our lower cost route - whenever the current 2.1L WBX4 needs done next.

We put less than 3k per year on it in the past 3 years, & maybe <20k miles since the top end was done in `05 or `06 - so it may last a while!

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

I had to google that!

http://www.corvair.org/chapters/lvcc/lvcc_...fifth_wheel.pdf


pretty neat! How rare and expensive are those motors?

They built kits based on VW engines, I've only ever seen one a VR6 kit.
Not cheap.

http://www.oettinger.com/

[Maltese Falcon]

Marty,

You still have the Dual Cab Syncro around, that was my favorite conversion of yours. I need to get a Dual cab, replace my Chevy pickup. I would post likely do a SVX, as I have a few of them around right now. AWD is the Easy part.

Stephen,
I actually had such a good offer on the Dual cab syncro, I sold it. Then took a 2wd Dual cab and converted it to LT1 chev power, with a g50 5 speed.
Marty

[Maltese Falcon]

We put about 25 of these Carrera powered Vanagons into service with our MSDS conversion kits, from 1990-2000.
This is my '86 awd Syncro, complete with dual zone AC, heat, power steering and diff-lock.
Marty

Marty - so my wife's next question would be: "So would my cute little van be able to tow my cute little trailer with that motor?"

FYI - Her "cute little trailer" is a restored vintage 1960 Avion T20 (similar to Airstream) which weighs about 3000-3500# wet & loaded - maybe 4000# max., but I need to weigh it next trip (dry/empty excl. options factory is 2680#) & it's 21'-6" including the Hensley Cub WD/Anti-sway hitch, with electric drum brakes & I just weighed it with 535# hitch/tongue wt.

We're currently looking at 2006-10 Cayenne S with the V8's for a tow vehicle/3rd car - which looks like will run $18k - $30k, but a well done professional conversion to a "modern" waterboxer Porsche 6 AWD could be very interesting! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

Is anyone doing them now?

Tom
///////

Tom, some of my customers do tow small pop-up camping rigs, nothing in the range of 3-4,000 lbs. though. The 3.2/3.6 Porsche engines are good rpm+hp engines, but lack reliable torque for a big haul...especially when the engine already sits in a 4,000 lb. Syncro !
If you are considering pulling that Airstream with a v8 Cayenne, read up on these over at Rennlist. TSB's galore and issues. My nephew owned an '05 v8 biturbo for 2 years, and the maintenance ate him alive. He sold it at a $10k loss.
For towing I have an F150 supercharged 5.4L with an intercooled magna charger at 7 psi boost. It can pull trailers all day !
Marty (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

[Maltese Falcon]

Love it Marty! What trans did you use in those conversions? The motor is a 3.2?

Transaxle used in these conversions were:
2wd = original 2wd 4 speed, or g50 5 speed.
4wd = original 4wd 4 speed. Syncros all had an extra 1st granny gear.
Most were 3.2 Carrera motronic, a few 3.6 c2 motronic engines.
My personal Syncro had a blueprint Trans rebuild, with a higher 4th (final) gear.

[pete000]

Cool, Vanagon thread ! Here is my 1990 Vanagon.

Too much to list done to this guy.

[Chris H.]

What the...it's raining Vanagons!

C'mon Pete don't tease us! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

[a914622]

The 2.5 suby the is powering my vanagon was destiny for my 914! I had the down payment ready to go on the bosting Ztec engine, then i got the chance to drive one. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif) less tork than the water boxer and "race cams" made it worse.

I just sold a rear cushion to a guy that had a porsche powered vanagon that came from SoCal . He had bought it from an estate. Store goes the guy that did the swap was big into racing and would run the vanagon as an officials track rig. Had the stock vw trans and a 3.2 with the muffler punched for 2 outlets.

Along with the 914svx engine I just picked up a 87 g50 and a spare svx engine. Now if I could only find a 78-79 vanagon and a year off from work!

Jcl

[Chris H.]

Now if I could only find a 78-79 vanagon and a year off from work!

Jcl

Here's a nice starting point... It's pretty far away from me or I would go look at it. For someone looking to totally re-do a Vannie to a driver it would be worth a look for sure. I THINK this car used to reside in Naperville and I looked at it several years ago.

Vanagon no engine

Thanks for the Bostig feedback. I think my next step is finding another SVX or an EZ30 motor. Taking it slow this time...my 914 conversion was too hectic. Think I was afraid to keep it off the road too long.

[914forme]

Oh I wish I never entered the Samba, looks like I found a new project. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif)





But then it is close enough to go and pickup.

I really need to stick with my good ole American Pickemuptruck for hauling and towing does it quite well.

Now if you want to talk Subbie Power in a Type 181 with AWD, a body lift, suspension lift, and a factory hard top, and a soff top, then maybe. I would love to build that for my wife. Convertible in the spring ./ Fall, A/C in the summer, traction in the winter. Makes al the sense in the world to me. Classic VW things looks, that crap grows on you. And 70s colors, Single Orange or Zambezi Green. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif) Yeah this idea hasn't been bouncing around in my head for a while.

For PC it could be a Porsche 597 Jagdwagen also, though I am sure she would want 4 doors of the 181. And try to find a 597 then feel the ability to (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif)

[OU8AVW]

I spoke to some folks from CCR Engines in Colorado. They pic and rebuild Suby motors. Say they can hook me up with a 2.5 with all the trimmings for around $9k. That includes the harness. Add a Go Westy or Kennedy kit and I should be good to go. I have an auto, but will probably switch to a rebuilt 4 speed, although the auto is pretty sweet....

[KELTY360]

The 2.5 suby the is powering my vanagon was destiny for my 914! I had the down payment ready to go on the bosting Ztec engine, then i got the chance to drive one. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif) less tork than the water boxer and "race cams" made it worse.

I just sold a rear cushion to a guy that had a porsche powered vanagon that came from SoCal . He had bought it from an estate. Store goes the guy that did the swap was big into racing and would run the vanagon as an officials track rig. Had the stock vw trans and a 3.2 with the muffler punched for 2 outlets.

Along with the 914svx engine I just picked up a 87 g50 and a spare svx engine. Now if I could only find a 78-79 vanagon and a year off from work!

Jcl

No such thing as a '78-79 Vanagon, it would still be a bay in those years. First Vanagon was 1980 and they were air cooled til halfway thru the '83 model year.

I'll weigh in on the SVX in a Vanagon. It absolutely transforms the vehicle! The useable torque is so satisfying for someone who spent years stirring gears in a Westy with a 2.1 waterboxer. Last summer I drove up to Mt. Rainier in my SVX Syncro Westy and was amazed at how pleasant it was to climb a steep, twisty mountain road in 3rd most of the time although I'd occasionally drop to 2nd on severe hairpins. I had 3rd & 4th regeared taller and it makes climbing hills effortless. On the highway it cruises easily at 80 with lots to spare. I don't think 100 is out of the question but the right situation hasn't come up for that attempt.

IMO VW got the Vanagon right....except for that crappy engine with jury-rigged exhaust and cooling systems to complement the screwy head seals. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif) Weight distribution is near 50/50, rack and pinion steering, independent suspension, great visibility, good seating (later models). My Westy makes a great base of operations for local use and extended road trips.

In normal use, it's fun to frustrate other drivers who think they're next to, or behind, a plain old ordinary VW bus. It's part of our dna to want to get in front of a VW bus, right? Not so easy when that bus has 240hp. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/slap.gif) I love it when someone has to pull in behind me because they can't accelerate around without attracting attention. At some point I may tow the 914 behind it. That would be like the Enterprise with a separating battle bridge. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) The brakes were upgraded during the conversion and I'm sure the SVX would handle the towing fine.

All of that said, I'd probably go with the 2.5 if I was doing it again. HP/TQ is a little less but the mpg is dramatically improved. That eg33 is a beast of an engine but it does suck the gas; I get around 15 at highway cruising speeds. Reliable sources have told me 20+ is easily achievable with the 2.5. Whichever way you go, I don't think you can beat the Subies for reliable, powerful conversions that look like they belong in the Vanagon engine bay. Porsche power would be pretty sexy in one of these rigs but I'm doubtful they can pencil out anywhere close, especially in long term useage.

Here's a couple of gratuitous pics. They've been posted elsewhere but a cool Vanagon thread like this deserves the documentation.

[Chris H.]

Nice polished manifold Kelty...or is it ceramic coated? What was the process?

I love that thing.

Stephen that DOCA MIGHT be promising if the rust isn't too bad. It's a synchro too. I wouldn't pay $10k but for less...who knows. Wonder what "Subie power" it has. The "add-ons" are certainly distracting aren't they? Someone had some extra tractor trailer parts and a whole lot of diamond plate laying around.

Link

[pete000]

Here is a crazy conversion I saw this year at the Bugorama.

Mid engine Vanagon with I think Audi power and transmission!

Crazy work in progress rig.

[pete000]

Another crazy conversion, V8 twin turbo power this time also mid engine.

[KELTY360]

Nice polished manifold Kelty...or is it ceramic coated? What was the process?

I love that thing.
Link

Thanks Chris. It's polished. I did the initial smoothing of the rough casting and then had a polishing shop finish it off. The eg33 manifold is such a fine shape, it screams for polishing. I freely admit.....I'm fascinated by shiny things.