NPC - Ye Olde Vanagon Thread, Let's (try to) rebuild a WBX engine Options

[strawman]

I bought a 1981 Diesel Vanagon Westfalia off flEaBAY in 1997 . The drive back from Ft. Collins, CO to Logan, UT was verrrrry sloooowwww -- I was passed by big rigs and everything else on the road. It was a very easy swap to a gasser MkII Golf engine even back in 1998 before the expansive lore of the Internet got in the way, although you definitely want to regear the transmission -- otherwise it'll be a stump-puller that screams as highway speeds. It's maiden trip (pun intended) was Burning Man in 1999...

I followed up that swap with a Suby EJ22 into a 1986 Westy Syncro in 2002. I wish I kept it because the price of these rigs is now astronomical; did I REALLY sell it for less than $10k in 2007 (to Warren Chapman, RIP)?!?!?. But my current TDI-swapped 1993 Eurovan Westy is the best yet. A/C that actually works, great ergonomics, more "substantial" overall feel, and 30mpg make it a great combo.

[Front yard mechanic]

Van guys are sensitive

[Tom_T]

FYI I've seen another Vanagon online from SoCal with a Porsche 928 V8 transplanted into it - imagine a "box" version of Rick's "Alien" 928 V8 powered 914 on here! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)
Tom
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That is quite interesting! Can you post a link?
br
Benno

Not a finished project, I don't think, so it's not pretty from the backside, as compared to Porsche's own "B32 Carrera" Vanagons.

http://www.2040-cars.com/Volkswagen/Bus-Va...sche-v8-292757/



.

vs. the `85 Porsche B32 Carrera's clean resolution of the design mods -
http://www.carbuildindex.com/24024/porsche...t3-bus-the-b32/



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Tom
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[KELTY360]

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Tom
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Just because you can...doesn't mean you should. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

Even worse, they hacked up a Syncro to do it.

[Tom_T]

If they'd done it well Marc, then it would've been a screaming syncro, which also looked good! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

The hack job was in the lack of quality & professionality in the execution of the resto-mod project, & with the engine hanging out the back without a legal bumper substitute on there - & not whether it passes smog - was probably why the guy couldn't get DMV to approve his half-fast project!! ... as he complains about in his write-up at the link I gave.

I'd modify your comment to be:
"Just because you can, is no reason to do a half-fast hack job!"

If you're going to do something resto-mod, then do it right - dammit! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Besides, there are a ton of Subie-Synchro conversions out there too!

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Tom
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[KELTY360]

If they'd done it well Marc, then it would've been a screaming syncro, which also looked good! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

The hack job was in the lack of quality & professionality in the execution of the resto-mod project, & with the engine hanging out the back without a legal bumper substitute on there - & not whether it passes smog - was probably why the guy couldn't get DMV to approve his half-fast project!! ... as he complains about in his write-up at the link I gave.

I'd modify your comment to be:
"Just because you can, is no reason to do a half-fast hack job!"

If you're going to do something resto-mod, then do it right - dammit! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Besides, there are a ton of Subie-Synchro conversions out there too!

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Tom
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There is no way to do that conversion well. The dimensions of that engine means you have to cut the firewall and impinge on the rear seats. Which also means you have no room for the fuel tank. Even at that you still have an engine sitting about 4" off the ground. Senseless.

The proliferation of Subie conversions is a result of horizontally opposed engines designed with a clean sheet instead of obsolete technology hodge-podged together for water cooling. VW had everything right on the Vanagon, except the engine. It's a great box.

[sechszylinder]

FYI I've seen another Vanagon online from SoCal with a Porsche 928 V8 transplanted into it - imagine a "box" version of Rick's "Alien" 928 V8 powered 914 on here! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)
Tom
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That is quite interesting! Can you post a link?
br
Benno

Not a finished project, I don't think, so it's not pretty from the backside, as compared to Porsche's own "B32 Carrera" Vanagons.

http://www.2040-cars.com/Volkswagen/Bus-Va...sche-v8-292757/

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Tom
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Hey Tom, thanks for the link and the pictures, but thats, what I have feared ...

It looks ugly and is a quite bad technical solution (IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif)

Besides that, I know that particular B32 in the pictures. It has been owned by a private owner for a long time and is now in a museum in Hannover Germany.

BR

Benno

[Tom_T]

Hey Tom, thanks for the link and the pictures, but thats, what I have feared ...

It looks ugly and is a quite bad technical solution (IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif)

Besides that, I know that particular B32 in the pictures. It has been owned by a private owner for a long time and is now in a museum in Hannover Germany.

BR

Benno

Benno,

I saw that one in the Hanover Museum on their website first too, when I was googling for the Oettenger WBX6. I'd love to research & write a rare Porsche article for our PCA Panorama or Excellence magazines sometime when I have time after retirement.

I cringe at hack jobs of any type on any car/truck! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

If you're going to do something, then do it right! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif)

I think one could do a nice clean & well designed Vanagon mod with the late '86-95 928 V8's & 928 running gear (suspension/brakes/etc.), or with a newer donor AWD V8 Cayenne S or Panamera 4S, & have a great Vanagon/Westy!

Then my wife could be happy to be able to tow our restored vintage 1960 Avion T20 (similar to Airstream - but better - +/- 3000-3500 lbs wet & loaded) in style with our `88 Westy! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

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Tom
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[JmuRiz]

A B32 would be so cool to have/drive.

About the only minivan I'd ever want to own.

[Tom_T]

A B32 would be so cool to have/drive.

About the only minivan I'd ever want to own.

Also about the only minivan eligible for PCA Concours, AX, DE & Track events (sorry for the typo!). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

As rare as the B32s are, I'd think that they'd be wildly expensive.

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Tom
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[Chris H.]

My first inclination was to do a B32 clone. Maybe it will morph into that over time.

BTW that 928 conversion van looks like a gutted fish. Innards are just spilling out of the open wound (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) .

[Tom_T]

My first inclination was to do a B32 clone. Maybe it will morph into that over time.

BTW that 928 conversion van looks like a gutted fish. Innards are just spilling out of the open wound (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) .

If you do a B32 clone, then I'd suggest that you do an updated clone with a watercooled 2000-10's Boxster/Cayman (896/897/891) or 911 (996/997/991) with a good driveline from an otherwise totaled one - do the IMS Bearing fix if the earlier *86/*87 engines, & you can also do it AWD if you got it from a 4S/4 AWD 911 donor.

That way you'll have a newer WBX which can run cooler, & you'll not have to do all the water to air cooled mods on a later Vano, which involved some complex air ducting for those rear mid-high side ducts & other stuff - most of which would be NLA & hard to reproduce repros.

RUF has also done one or some Porsche 6 Vanagons (not sure how many), which also would be "legal" under PCA rules BTW. IIRC this has an aircooled 3.6.

http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/youll-lo...topic46463.html



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Tom
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[Tom_T]

There is no way to do that conversion well. The dimensions of that engine means you have to cut the firewall and impinge on the rear seats. Which also means you have no room for the fuel tank. Even at that you still have an engine sitting about 4" off the ground. Senseless.

The proliferation of Subie conversions is a result of horizontally opposed engines designed with a clean sheet instead of obsolete technology hodge-podged together for water cooling. VW had everything right on the Vanagon, except the engine. It's a great box.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) that they had it all right, & should've followed thru with Porsche's advice & finished out their WBX6 JV project with Oettenger as a production model.

It always P.O's me when Iacocca claims he/Dodge-Chrysler "invented" the mini-van - at a time when VW had already been building them for for over 3 decades. IMHO, VW has made nice & appealing design progress on their vans with every generation - except perhaps when the rebadged the "Chrysler-Rutan" for the US/Canada.

However, & I disagree that there is no way to design & engineer something with a Porsche V8 driveline/suspension/brakes as 2WD or 4WD/AWD. So what if you need to move the rear seats forward, or relocate the Synchro's rear fuel tank.

Any good designer/engineer can accomplish a solution which works & looks good. It may take some time, research & loads of cash - compared to a Subie 4/6 or maybe even compared to a Porsche flat-6 conversion. But then, this would be a one-off dream -build sort of thing.

Just think if they said that Porsche couldn't put the 908 engine in the 914-8 bec ause they had to cut the firewall!? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Where there is a will - coupled with the skill - there is a way IMHO! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

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Tom
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[sechszylinder]

The company Claer is well known in Germany for their Porsche conversions of Vanagons and other VW vans.

Have a look http://www.claer-automobile.de/

BR
Benno

[914forme]

How about an S33 van.

EG33, and then do all the suspension and brake work. I need to quit looking at this thread. Always wanted one of the dual cab pickups, and well........

[Chris H.]

Yes Stephen, that's what I'm thinking. Not an exact copy but a "B33", maybe with the look but a little less stiff. Something I could drive comfortably but with a little extra power. The nice thing is I can start with a 4 and work my way up if I want to.

I clicked the Claer link and saw this right away...don't go in there Stephen...you'll get side-tracked on your Dad's 6 resto (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) .



Wow there are some pretty cool conversions out there for this old box! Tom/Benno, I spent a LOT of time looking at the 996 tiptronic trans since there are literally no other options outside of the Vanagon automatic. It requires the key immobilizer module as well, and the wiring is pretty scary looking. Lots of sensors and inputs that would not be used, some of which would likely have to have their voltage simulated. LOTS of them. I suppose a Boxster engine would pretty much connect to it. Can't do a Boxster trans since it spins the wrong way. Definitely an option.

Bottom line is cost really. There are a couple of low mileage/bad transmission SVX's on Craigslist now. Tempting to harvest one of those. But then what do I use for a trans...? That's where I'm stuck. Seems like it's almost the same money to do a Subaru trans but I'd really like (or at least I think I would like) an automatic so everyone can drive it in the fam. SubaruGears IS working on an auto trans reverse R&P but won't give a time frame.

BTW did anyone see this?

SubaruGears now makes adapters for mating Subaru transmissions to a LOT of different engines:

The Type 1! The Type 4! Ecotec, Zetec, all VW engines, 1.8t, All the way to the LS1 and the REALLY GOOD Lexus 4.0 V8. I know KEP will make these too but it's interesting that they are making a trans plate to mate to VW air cooled engines. Pretty cool actually. And the quality will be very good.

SubaruGears adapter plates

Also, has anyone heard of this guy?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VA0deR7P6E


He REVERSED the 1.8T engine direction so you can use an Audi/VW trans. The company does not sell kits. Only the full conversion which is about $10-$12k including the engine. Really not a bad deal actually but I want to do it myself.

[Tom_T]

The company Claer is well known in Germany for their Porsche conversions of Vanagons and other VW vans.

Have a look http://www.claer-automobile.de/

BR
Benno

Thanx Benno,

I've seen 1 or 2 of the Claers come up for sale online in Europe over the years.

There are also several USA shops which specialize in dropping a Porsche 6 into T3 Vanagons too, including one of our LA area members on here (but I'm spacing on his name right now), who has posted in this thread.

I had mentioned RUF because the main US/Canada Porsche Club PCA rules treat RUF cars as if a factory Porsche, due to their relationship with the factory I suppose. So members can enter them in any PCA event, but the others aren't regarded that privilege.

However, I disagree with that approach myself in principal. I think any Porsche running gear conversion, re-body, etc. should be allowed, since PCA has a "Special" division for such unique cars, & there are a lot of car conversions out there which would be interesting for members to see in AX, DE/Race, Concours & other driving events.

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[Tom_T]

Oew-Oew .... Mr. Kottah!

How 'bout an aircooled 908 flat 8 in a Vano!? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

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Tom
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[914forme]

There are also several USA shops which specialize in dropping a Porsche 6 into T3 Vanagons too, including one of our LA area members on here (but I'm spacing on his name right now), who has posted in this thread.

Tom
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Marty of MSDS Fame? He has done a few of them including a very (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif) Vanagon Synro with a 3.2 out back.

And this V8 Double Cab (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif)

[Tom_T]

There are also several USA shops which specialize in dropping a Porsche 6 into T3 Vanagons too, including one of our LA area members on here (but I'm spacing on his name right now), who has posted in this thread.

Tom
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Marty of MSDS Fame? He has done a few of them including a very (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif) Vanagon Synro with a 3.2 out back.

And this V8 Double Cab (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif)

I think so - does he go by MalteseFalcon or something similar on here?

.... sorry for the halfzymer moment hon this, but I'm doing about 5 things at the same time today! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

The Doka & Single Cab's higher rear deck really opens up space & options for some radical mods, doesn't it!

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Tom
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