914 engine fires; why.., 914 engine fires; and why are they .. Options

[c12croft]

why are the 914s seemingly prone to burn? is it endemic of the:

1. air cooled design and higher operating temps?

2. a potential threat always as the result of the way 914ers like to push their cars to the operating limits?

3. potential threat always due to other components of the engine design and installation? smart 914ers always carry an extinguisher.

4. neither of the above, and i should shut up and be shamed off this site!

[MecGen]

And lets not forget the "lets get drunk and work on my 914" syndrome
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beerchug.gif)
WBR
Joe

[thesey914]

I don't think 914s are anymore prone to engine fires that any other manufacture/vehicle.

[ws91420]

30 YR old rubber on fuel system is a chance to burn on any car.

[spare time toys]

could be the old gas line aimed at the front of the motor and when (not if) they bust..... gas, hot engine, poof ...fire ball. Ask Clay

[Bleyseng]

Nope, its caused by the rubber/fabric FI fuel lines with high pressure (30psi) in, around,laying on the engine. High heat makes the fuel line crack spraying gas on a hot engine resulting in a big fire as usually the damn fuel pump keeps running unless the driver quickly turns it off. Once the fire starts it usually has lots of oily greasey grime to keep burning until the magnesium/aluminum stuff catches on fire. Then there is no way to put it out.

Owner maintaince is the real issue! Change out those old hoses and check them for cracks and leaks.
Geoff

[davep]

I don't know that there is a problem. Yes, there were many fires years ago due to problems with the injector fuel lines. The recall should still be applicable if it has not been done. And why would it not have been done in the last thirty years.

Parts that are 30 years old need to be inspected thoroughly before being used. The fact that so many of these vintage vehicles are being cared for is both a blessing and a curse. Don't go cheap where there is such a risk involved.

[dmenche914]

I have had no fires in 914's and I have had several. However I have found some near misses

1. The fuel pump in the original location (in back) if not installed right by either the clamp in the wrong position, or mounts moved (maybe cause rust on engine shelf) may rub against the firewall, wearing out the metal housing, and causing a leak, so make sure the pump body is not touching the firewall.

2. Poorly maintained or routed fuel lines. Use the correct high pressure FI lines, the elcheapo cloth wrapped VW Bug type fule lines are not designed to handle FI system pressure. The hoses should be replaced if old, also be aware of rubbing of the hoses so secure them correctly. Use the correct non-sereated hose clamps on all the fittings. do not neglect the hoses under the engine.

3. Old fuel injectors may start to leak at the plastic body. I have seen some so old, that the plastic had cracks in it, and they ozzed fuel, so check them for leaks., just pressurize the system by tuning on the fuel pump a few times after engine is warmed up, adn smell/look for leaks, and replace right away if leaking, do not wait thinking it is only a small leak, it couldf get real big, real fast.

4. The stock plastic tubing that enters the engine bay is prone to deterioration from heat/age, and most of all sulfuric acid. If the tubes as cracking, or have a rough appearance, could be battery acid has started to attack them, so replace them. The acid will make them thin and brittle.

5. Wrong fuel filter used on early cars, or wrong hose to filter. The early filter had small ends, one end wnet to a lared tube, so Porchse has an adaptor hose, big to small, it is pricey, but is the correct hose. without the correct hose, folks end up putting too large a hose on the filter, and compensate by over clamping, not the best thing to do.

6. driver smells gas, but ignores it for a while, then boom!!!


All and all it is aging of the rubber or plastic parts, battery acid damage, or improper installation not paying attention to the above details that cause the fires.

914's are not especially prone to fires, however as in all my cars, I do carry an extingusher

[SirAndy]

QUOTE (c12croft @ Feb 20 2005, 06:07 AM)

4. neither of the above, and i should shut up and be shamed off this site!

- lack of maintenance/knowledge by owner

- carb conversions that use the stock FI fuel pump and a pressure regulator

- DIY mechanics that use wrong parts (wrong fuel hoses, wrong FI hose clamps)


there's nothing wrong with the design of those engines (in the stock configuration) ...
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool.gif) Andy

[redshift]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wavey.gif)

I am a fire survivor. It's the fuel lines, they were old even back when they were kind of new. A hot air cooled motor in the summer with a fresh spray of petrol... MmmMmm...

Transaxles are pretty in the fire. POP! POP!

M

[Aaron Cox]

QUOTE (redshift @ Feb 20 2005, 12:37 PM)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wavey.gif) I am a fire survivor. It's the fuel lines, they were old even back when they were kind of new. A hot air cooled motor in the summer with a fresh spray of petrol... MmmMmm... Transaxles are pretty in the fire. POP! POP! M

you sure it isnt bad gas? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

[Maltese Falcon]

The factory actually realized a dangerous condition existed, could be why I received a "Recall notice" circa 1975, for a FIX. It was a black plastic lid for the battery top. I reckon that the fix was aimed at keeping residual rain/ carwash water & battery acid from eating the fuel lines into/out of the fuel components , at least on that side.
Fires did occur, but also on Fiat X1-9s. A tow truck operator I know, used to refer to the 914 as the "Toaster" . (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/blink.gif)

[redshift]

hahahah Aaron is funny (looking)



M

[type47fan]

QUOTE (Maltese Falcon @ Feb 20 2005, 12:20 PM)

The factory actually realized a dangerous condition existed, could be why I received a "Recall notice" circa 1975, for a FIX. It was a black plastic lid for the battery top. I reckon that the fix was aimed at keeping residual rain/ carwash water & battery acid  from eating the fuel lines into/out of the fuel components , at least on that side.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif)
OEM fabric covered rubber fuel lines: if you still have them, you're at risk! I had the fuel lines on two 914s I've owned fixed by the dealer under that recall. The recall kit consisted of that battery cover mentioned and replacing the lines with stout rubber fuel hoses.

[porschewrench]

The fires in 914 are caused by the battery acid (battery in stock location in engine compartment) dripping down,
eating the spark plug wires on that side and the fuel lines.
Thus, the corroded (eaten) spark plug wires give a spark when the fuel lines finally rupture from being eaten by the battery acid. This was a problem in the early '70's.
I saw many a 914 burn because of this. I am a factory trained Porsche mechanic and have worked for the dealer since 1971 and worked on thousands of 914's. Don't be confused with the recalls they had to relocate the fuel pump to the front of the car. This was to keep them from vapor locking in hot environments (we would have new 914's leave the dealership, go up the highway 9 - 11 miles, vapor lock and stop). Paul B.

[porschewrench]

Concerning the black plastic lid-that was a recall that they later changed to relocating the battery into the middle of the rear trunk in a plastic battery box. Battery cables are stretched across the middle of the engine compartment,
half-inch hole cut into trunk, cable pulled through to battery in plastic box in trunk and then ground cable bolted to rear trunk floor. Paul

[porschewrench]

For those who didn't catch this early it would eat the metal stock battery holder and go down and eat the suspension console(ear ) that the trailing arm bolts. I have actually seen the right rear rear & trailing arm come off. Paul B.

[Maltese Falcon]

Paul, what year was the "Battery" relocation ?? I thought that the batteries were moved by the aftermarket guys--not Porsche Audi dealers (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/blink.gif)
I remember driving to Palm Springs one hot day , about 110 deg in the shade. Every time it would vapor lock, I'd pull into a gas station or someones driveway and hose off the fuel pump with cold water. that would get me another 20 miles down the road.
I must have really like this "New" car to put up with that ! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/screwy.gif)
Marty

[porschewrench]

At the time (1971 ) the Porsche dealership was owned by the factory( so was our sister vw dealership) so when problems like this occured the Porsche reps would usually experiment in our shop. So we a leg up on all the recalls' I think it was around 1973 when the plastic battery box (it is a marine (boat) bat box actually) recall came about. The reps came in and figured out how to relocate the fuel pump to the front with as little parts as possible and also told us to go and buy a marine battery box ,then showed us how they wanted it installed. Paul B.

[Maltese Falcon]

Paul, does Nolan still work in parts dept @ Holbert's Porsche ? I used to sell him exhaust parts back in '70s and 80's ... parts that the factory guys hated to see installed (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif)
marty