Porsche 928 vs Porsche 914, The good, the bad, and the ugly Options

[seanery]

A buddy has a low mile (40-50k) red 928GT. It's a great car. I love it. If I were to get a 928 that would be inspiration. They are fast cruisers. But they can be very expensive to maintain. I remember John telling me they had to raise or drop (can't remember which) the motor to get to the back plugs. Little things like that can be a pain.

There is a guy in our local region named Randy Faunce. Randy has an 88 928S4 with over 300k miles on it. It was actually the Car of the Month in our newsletter for February.
CIR Region PCA Newsletter if you want to read about his car.

[Joe Ricard]

QUOTE (seanery @ Feb 28 2005, 09:14 AM)

I remember John telling me they had to raise or drop (can't remember which) the motor to get to the back plugs. Little things like that can be a pain.

I doubt it. I could change 8 plugs on my 928 faster than 4 on the teener. Maybe your friend had a Camaro. All the plugs on the 928 for all years point straight up and are accessed inbetween the intake runners. and removal of the air cleaner assy for the back 2 .

[vortrex]

I was driving a 914 2.0 for 1.5 years as a daily driver and then I bought an '89 928 GT. the 914 was parked and never driven again, if that tells you something. I know I will get flamed for this but stock 914's are just not fun to drive in my opinion.

[jasons]

QUOTE (Pnambic @ Feb 28 2005, 09:03 AM)

Maybe where you live. But around here, you'll see at least 40 to 50 944's for every one 928, maybe more. A 928 was one of the first matchbox cars I ever received when I was a little tot. I still have it! I drove one once, but barely. My dad had a friend who managed a Chevy dealership. They got one in as a trade and he let me drive him around a bit in it, but it was an auto and he wouldn't let me get on any roads where the speed limit was over 45mph... One of the cars on my top ten list of favorites....

Honestly where I live, I'm white trash. I daily drive an 89 944S2. All I see are 911 GT's and turbos, Cayennes at every light. An old Porsche here is a 993! I'm not bragging, like I said I'm the white trash.

So, you're probabaly right. I just don't see many of either. The more I think about it, the more I realize I haven't seen a 928 in the street in a long time. Last one I saw was a friends. But I know I see 944's in the street often. Most of the ones I see are NA's not turbos. I guess "plain old" 944 NA's are turning into the new milleniums 914. Easily had for $3500 and most of them look pretty ratty.

[Root_Werks]

QUOTE (jasons @ Feb 28 2005, 08:44 AM)

I can certainly respect that. However, I don't think 928's are any more or less common than 944's. If they are less common, its probably because of attrition. The maintenance expenses generate alot of parts cars.

There is a local used parts yard that has 5-6 944's that look like you could drive them. All have "Bad motor" written on the windshields. These cars have no body damage, okay paint jobs and sit on 4 tires looking like you could just hop in and go. They also have a couple of 928's in the same state. They of course have some wrecked 944's and 928's.

Now that I have said that, I love 944's and just worked a deal were my wife will have an 84' in a couple of weeks. We are selling her Jeep. I like the pre S3 928's, non-interference 16v engines. 944's are rock solid cars as long as you keep up the belt maint.

I had a few people tell me: "But when the belts go, so does the motor." Duh, so does just about every Honduh, DSM etc out there. The 944 isn't unique in that respect, just that the cars are older now, and you find TONS of 944's with 50K or more on thier timming belts or owners who say "Never replaced it". Babbling. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif)

[jasons]

QUOTE (Root_Werks @ Feb 28 2005, 09:58 AM)

QUOTE (jasons @ Feb 28 2005, 08:44 AM) I can certainly respect that.  However, I don't think 928's are any more or less common than 944's.  If they are less common, its probably because of attrition.  The maintenance expenses generate alot of parts cars. There is a local used parts yard that has 5-6 944's that look like you could drive them. All have "Bad motor" written on the windshields. These cars have no body damage, okay paint jobs and sit on 4 tires looking like you could just hop in and go. They also have a couple of 928's in the same state. They of course have some wrecked 944's and 928's. Now that I have said that, I love 944's and just worked a deal were my wife will have an 84' in a couple of weeks. We are selling her Jeep. I like the pre S3 928's, non-interference 16v engines. 944's are rock solid cars as long as you keep up the belt maint. I had a few people tell me: "But when the belts go, so does the motor." Duh, so does just about every Honduh, DSM etc out there. The 944 isn't unique in that respect, just that the cars are older now, and you find TONS of 944's with 50K or more on thier timming belts or owners who say "Never replaced it". Babbling. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif)

Mine being an S2 16v has an even higher risk of failure with the chain guide and tensioner. In fact, the one on my car failed on the previous owner. It cost him a new head, new cams etc. He used new Porsche parts not rebuilt(he was a doc. so $ was no object). His bill was $7k for that repair alone. Most of us would have to surrender in that event. With a normal 8v NA, the "total loss" threshold is even lower since its a $3500 car.

That said, I see alot of early 928's for $5000.

[McMark]

I had a 79. I bought it for $5k, put anouther $5k into it and then sold it for $2k. That is the short, to the point version. Buy $10k, sold $2k.

[scotty914]

heres a thought.... smoke coming out of ears ... put a 928 motor in a 944, due to 944's being newer and more liklyin better shape.

blown 944 for 2 grand
wrecked 928 good motor 2 grand

total 4 grand for a hell of a sleeper (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/happy11.gif)

[vortrex]

QUOTE (McMark @ Feb 28 2005, 10:37 AM)

I had a 79. I bought it for $5k, put anouther $5k into it and then sold it for $2k. That is the short, to the point version. Buy $10k, sold $2k.

I bought mine for $24k, put a couple hundred into it for a brake line and something else at PPI, added new wheels and tires, drove it for 12k miles, and sold it for $22.5k.

[Flat VW]

A pal had one, nice car, garage Queen. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_flagge6.gif)

I used to look at the catalog for Performance Products and just marvel at the price of just the parts alone, and that was fifteen years ago! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/lol2.gif)

[ninefourteener]

Well, I appreciate all the advice from everyone. I really like the cars, but it sounds like to me, unless the car has a recently rebuilt engine, it isn't worth buying.

Honestly, I'm a SSgt in the Air Force, and I certainly cannot afford a $5,000 repair on a $5,000 car. I'll leave that for the Doctors and lawyers. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

Thanks again to everyone (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beerchug.gif)

Matt

[Porsche Rescue]

Recently rebuilt engine is not the answer. Not many of those around anyway. They run a long time if cared for properly. Low miles and evidence of maintenace is what you want. They are complex and things like power/electrical stuff, AC, etc. can eat you up. They are luxury cars, and as such, cost a lot. Remember, at the end in 1995, they could have a window sticker of $90K.

[BMartin914]

Just my $.02...

I think the 928 is one of the best looking Porsches ever.

My girlfriend's stepfather owns 5 944s had a 951 and couldn't resist an '87 928S4 for sale in NE. Bought it, got it half way home...then it started to get expensive real quick.

A coil wire came off one of the ignition coils, left bank of cylinders flooded and car started on fire. He was able to get it out, but has spent the last year replacing what he can afford piece by piece and trying to get it roadworthy. It seems like any new Porsche parts are ungodly expensive (try $1700+ for an air mass sensor), so almost everything needs to be tracked down used and it takes TIME.

It is a gorgeous car though. Can't wait for a chance to drive it (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[scotty b]

QUOTE (jasons @ Feb 28 2005, 08:44 AM)

QUOTE (ninefourteener @ Feb 28 2005, 08:32 AM) Yea.. the 944s are cool cars.... but I just see too many of them all over the place.  You're right, great performance for the $$$, but they don't stand out in a crowd..... I like distinctive cars that you don't see everyday. Not downing the 944 at all... great car, just not what I like. I can certainly respect that. However, I don't think 928's are any more or less common than 944's. If they are less common, its probably because of attrition. The maintenance expenses generate alot of parts cars.

It totally depends on your location. I have people stop by all the time wanting to know if my 944 is for sale,I can't give away my 924, A friend tried to sell his 914 for over a year with no bites (nice car),the guy I used to work for has a friend whose 928 we worked on and we couldn't get people to stop asking about it. As far as the 944 they need the belt changed methodically. If you pay for that service have at least $500.00 handy! If you do it yourself you will need a $500.00 tool, DO NOT BUY A "CLICKER". 928 is a lot of fun and a lot of gas. Watch out for the clutch! It doesn't feel like a 914 clutch (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[jasons]

QUOTE (scotty b @ Feb 28 2005, 05:29 PM)

[/QUOTE] If you do it yourself you will need a $500.00 tool, DO NOT BUY A "CLICKER".

You mean the Kricket tool? You don't think they work? I've heard different opinions.

[scotty b]

Yeah the Kricket is what they call it. Maybe I'm just old fashioned or choose to believe that Porsche made the gauge for a reason. ACCURASY I have known guys to eyeball the deflection on the belt and get away with it, but with the potential damage from a flying belt I feel it isn't worth taking the chance with a Kricket.

[scotty b]

Um yeah Pat, I'd like to swap that S for a C please (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif)

[-JR-]

QUOTE (scott thacher @ Feb 28 2005, 07:25 AM)

every thing takes twice as long on a 928, due to cramped engine bay. and i have heard stories of people crunching a fender, no other damge just the fender, and the repair price was higher than they bought the car for

HEH If I didn't know any better I'd say he was talking about a 914. My 928 is a dream to work on compaired to my 914, but still the 928 still has a few BEAR jobs like the clutch master, motor mounts, exhaust bolts at the heads.

But otherwise everything is really well designed and very accessable. I could do a clutch on a 928 in half the time then on a 914. I changed mine in about 35min once.

I bought my 928 first and now I have a 914 as well.

928's, as someone noted, are a GT car and do everything GT well. Like high speed highway crusing and long range driving. Not bad at all on handling, braking and "kicky pop" too. However due to the weight of such a car it means that to make it preform you have to either have to make it lighter (not easy at all) or you have to pay a premium for all those preformance parts that have to work twice as hard because of the weight.

So now I am experimenting with a 914. Which for all reasons is the opposite of a 928 in Porsche circles, unless we are counting the Cyanne. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/icon8.gif) The 914 is so light that to make it preform, those preformance parts don't need to be as aggressive and will be more efficient becuse of the weight.

Now not having any 914 seat time yet it's a little hard for me to compair exactly, but the 928 is almost unsurpassed on the highway and not bad around town. If you have an auto 928 it would be great in town as well, if we aren't counting how often we stop at gas stations! But by the same token a 914 should be great in town, get's great fuel economy but isn't so hot at high speeds. Now I am refering to stock cars here before anyone beats me up on that. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

I've autoX my 928 for the last 7 years and I could beat all the stock 914's with my 928, but now even with all the preformance upgrades (suspension, brakes, exhaust) on my 928 I can't catch the 914's that have the similar upgrades. So this is one of my big reasons to get into a 914.

That's my 2c!

[-JR-]

QUOTE (vortrex @ Feb 28 2005, 10:57 AM)

QUOTE (McMark @ Feb 28 2005, 10:37 AM) I had a 79.  I bought it for $5k, put anouther $5k into it and then sold it for $2k.  That is the short, to the point version.  Buy $10k, sold $2k. I bought mine for $24k, put a couple hundred into it for a brake line and something else at PPI, added new wheels and tires, drove it for 12k miles, and sold it for $22.5k.

Bought mine for $3500, put $6 into it....

Not going to sell it! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif)

[jim912928]

Sorry all that I haven't put my 2 cents in...i've been traveling alot. There is alot of "myth" to 928's that are just that...myths. Any porsche's parts are expensive..but 928 parts are not that much more then 911 maintenance. The real horror stories come from 928 owners that have had really beaten cars. As in any beaten down car, you'll spend alot of money bringing it up to snuff...per our specs in here.

My 928 is my daily driver for 8 months out of the year. I do basic maintenance like regular oil changes, tires, etc. It is a driver! My annual maintenance is no higher on my 928 then any of my other cars including my american cars. It has never left me stranded...and you can drive it for 8 hours and feel as good as before you got in it..it is that comfortable (oh, and you can be in triple digit speeds with the sun roof open..no air coming into the compartment...and you can actually hear real music!). I've also found that I can autox my 928 faster then I can autox my 911. For a bigger GT they do handle unbelievable (51/49 weight distribution). For me, that combo...larger 95 model year sized tires/rims...and all that power make up for my inexperience. By the way, it takes me about 30 minutes to change all 8 plugs and all I need is an extension and a swivel for the back two plugs.

Now, what too look for. Don't get a beater or a project. Get a car that is driven fairly regularly (928's like to be driven). Maintained 928's are like the 3.0 and up 911's...you'll get 250k miles on the engine easy. The biggest maintenance thing to check is the regularity of the timing belt and water pump changes. The 32V engines and the 16V euro engines are the most critical on this item as they are interference engines. The 16V US engines are not interference so if it breaks you are just stranded. Now, why change the waterpump at the same time?....basically everybody does it because it's back under those covers when you change the belt. And if it ever starts leaking it will screw the belt (most likely) and on interference engines that isn't good. So, most change the pump when the belt is off. The engine isn't really very cramped in the compartment and you can work on it pretty easily. I just changed out my alternator and it took about 15 minutes to get it off.

Most of the body is aluminum so rust isn't an issue on these cars (fenders, hood, doors....the rear quarters and roof are steel). About the only place to look for rust is back around the rear decklid where debri may accumulate around the rear hatch. Probably the most important thing to check out is the wiring. The 928 has miles of wire in it...you wouldn't believe how many fuses and relay's are in this thing. If the wiring has been hacked up I'd stay clear. The 928's monitor just about everything...this is where you could spend alot of money. I'd never give up my 928. It is the most dependable and comfortable car to drive. And people still ask me when did Porsche start making that one..they can't believe it is a 25 year old car!.

If you want more info pm me and I'll send you my phone number so we can chat.