 Type IV air-cooled motor with Boxster transmission conversion? Pics and discussion, Was: Subaru versus Boxster transmission? |
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| Mueller |
 Oct 8 2015, 04:29 PM
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#1
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914 Freak!  Group: Members Posts: 17,146 Joined: 4-January 03 From: Antioch, CA Member No.: 87 Region Association: None 
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Curiosity got me to pondering the above questions....
Suppose non-Subaru motor for the Subaru transmission and non-Boxster/Audi engine for the Boxster transmission. What about axles and hooking up to the drive hubs? One easier or vastly less expensive than the other? EDIT 2/21/2016: Now with pictures comparing Boxster transmission to 901 transmission |
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| r_towle |
Oct 8 2015, 06:10 PM
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#2
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,574 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States
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Dude, use the aircooled motor and the tranny you have....get it done and drive it....
And Subaru is your answer. |
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| Mike Bellis |
Oct 8 2015, 07:16 PM
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#3
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Resident Electrician Group: Members Posts: 8,345 Joined: 22-June 09 From: Midlothian TX Member No.: 10,496 Region Association: None 
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Boxster is virtually the same as the Passat and the Passat tranny can be had for $400.
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| Chris H. |
Oct 8 2015, 07:36 PM
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#4
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 4,030 Joined: 2-January 03 From: Chicago 'burbs Member No.: 73 Region Association: Upper MidWest
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Mike, I'm surprised you haven't caught the full-on Subaru bug. You were one of the engine swap pioneers with that VR6 idea of yours. You could go Subaru engine connected to Subaru 5MT trans! A 2.5 maybe?
Anyway, the cheaper way for a trans only is probably Subaru as Rich said, but either isn't too bad for the 5 speed. Needs: FWD Subie trans - pre-1996 - OLD and cheap, hard to tell the condition due to age, but at junkyards they usually let you swap them out if they are bad OR (more common) AWD trans - You would have to buy the locking spool for the AWD one but could easily make the end plate and sell the center diff for $. At a junkyard you can get older ones for low $. Newer ones can be $$$. Make sure it's old enough that it has stub axles. Plus: - two "female" Subaru CV joints (used ones from NASIOC or Craigslist, I got mine for $50). Green in color usually. - labor to re-spline a set of 914 axles re-splined on one end for the Subaru CV. This is as good or better than the $$$ sway-a-ways. The price has varied widely on this, from $50 to $130. - $30ish MR2 shifter - a cable shift setup. (you can do it yourself, all the way up to Ian's kit which is high $300's. The Boxster trans is pretty much the same as a Passat trans, so you could go that way. Mike Bellis can tell you what you need there. Only thing is...the adapter plate will cost you almost as much as a used Subaru or Audi engine... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) EDIT: I rambled on so long Mike already chimed in (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) . |
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| Pat Garvey |
Oct 8 2015, 07:46 PM
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#5
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Do I or don't I...........? Group: Members Posts: 5,899 Joined: 24-March 06 From: SE PA, near Philly Member No.: 5,765 Region Association: North East States |
QUOTE(Mueller @ Oct 8 2015, 04:29 PM)  Curiosity got me to pondering the above questions.... Suppose non-Subaru motor for the Subaru transmission and non-Boxster/Audi engine for the Boxster transmission. What about axles and hooking up to the drive hubs? One easier or vastly less expensive than the other? Sad! You people have no regard for history/preservation. You want to make an abomination out of a sports car that worked so well. Please vent your silliness elsewhere. It's a 914! Leave it alone! |
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| Mueller |
Oct 8 2015, 07:49 PM
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#6
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 17,146 Joined: 4-January 03 From: Antioch, CA Member No.: 87 Region Association: None
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QUOTE(Pat Garvey @ Oct 8 2015, 06:46 PM) QUOTE(Mueller @ Oct 8 2015, 04:29 PM) Curiosity got me to pondering the above questions.... Suppose non-Subaru motor for the Subaru transmission and non-Boxster/Audi engine for the Boxster transmission. What about axles and hooking up to the drive hubs? One easier or vastly less expensive than the other? Sad! You people have no regard for history/preservation. You want to make an abomination out of a sports car that worked so well. Please vent your silliness elsewhere. It's a 914! Leave it alone! Horse and buggies worked fine also.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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| Pat Garvey |
Oct 8 2015, 07:51 PM
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#7
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Do I or don't I...........? Group: Members Posts: 5,899 Joined: 24-March 06 From: SE PA, near Philly Member No.: 5,765 Region Association: North East States |
QUOTE(Mueller @ Oct 8 2015, 07:49 PM) QUOTE(Pat Garvey @ Oct 8 2015, 06:46 PM) QUOTE(Mueller @ Oct 8 2015, 04:29 PM) Curiosity got me to pondering the above questions.... Suppose non-Subaru motor for the Subaru transmission and non-Boxster/Audi engine for the Boxster transmission. What about axles and hooking up to the drive hubs? One easier or vastly less expensive than the other? Sad! You people have no regard for history/preservation. You want to make an abomination out of a sports car that worked so well. Please vent your silliness elsewhere. It's a 914! Leave it alone! Horse and buggies worked fine also.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) And they are still acceptable as vintage....not barbarian! |
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| mgp4591 |
Oct 8 2015, 07:53 PM
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#8
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,369 Joined: 1-August 12 From: Salt Lake City Ut Member No.: 14,748 Region Association: Intermountain Region
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QUOTE(Chris H. @ Oct 8 2015, 07:36 PM) Mike, I'm surprised you haven't caught the full-on Subaru bug. You were one of the engine swap pioneers with that VR6 idea of yours. You could go Subaru engine connected to Subaru 5MT trans! A 2.5 maybe? Anyway, the cheaper way for a trans only is probably Subaru as Rich said, but either isn't too bad for the 5 speed. Needs: FWD Subie trans - pre-1996 - OLD and cheap, hard to tell the condition due to age, but at junkyards they usually let you swap them out if they are bad OR (more common) AWD trans - You would have to buy the locking spool for the AWD one but could easily make the end plate and sell the center diff for $. At a junkyard you can get older ones for low $. Newer ones can be $$$. Make sure it's old enough that it has stub axles. Plus: - two "female" Subaru CV joints (used ones from NASIOC or Craigslist, I got mine for $50). Green in color usually. - labor to re-spline a set of 914 axles re-splined on one end for the Subaru CV. This is as good or better than the $$$ sway-a-ways. The price has varied widely on this, from $50 to $130. - $30ish MR2 shifter - a cable shift setup. (you can do it yourself, all the way up to Ian's kit which is high $300's. The Boxster trans is pretty much the same as a Passat trans, so you could go that way. Mike Bellis can tell you what you need there. Only thing is...the adapter plate will cost you almost as much as a used Subaru or Audi engine... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) EDIT: I rambled on so long Mike already chimed in (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) . I'm not sure which axle is stronger- has anyone used a resplined Suby axle instead of the 914? One might think that the years have made a stronger axle to use. Then again, maybe it's not long enough? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) I haven't heard that line in years... |
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| Chris H. |
Oct 8 2015, 08:09 PM
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#9
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 4,030 Joined: 2-January 03 From: Chicago 'burbs Member No.: 73 Region Association: Upper MidWest
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QUOTE(mgp4591 @ Oct 8 2015, 08:53 PM) I'm not sure which axle is stronger- has anyone used a resplined Suby axle instead of the 914? One might think that the years have made a stronger axle to use. Then again, maybe it's not long enough? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) I haven't heard that line in years... Well I won't say they are too short, but they aren't the right length (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) . Much easier to use the 914 axles...HIGHLY unlikely you'll snap an axle. The CV joint will be more than happy to break first. Trust me. |
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| JRust |
Oct 8 2015, 08:37 PM
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#10
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 6,305 Joined: 10-January 03 From: Corvallis Oregon Member No.: 129 Region Association: Pacific Northwest
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I can dig a preserved 914 Pat. I would venture to say my subaru powered 914 is a huge improvement over it's stock 2.0 predecessor. It is more reliable, more powerful & most of all it's my car. I can do what I please to it & will. I have owned many 914's & most have been stock one's. If I ever meet you at an event. I'd love for you to drive my car & then tell me if it was a pleasurable experience or not (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) . Still feels & drive's like a 914. Only smoother faster & the shifts are easy with no hunting or grinding of gears (IMG:style_emoticons/default/evilgrin.gif)
So for future reference if I ever bought your car Pat. I would leave it just like it is (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif) . It is a nice beautiful stock 914 I would be proud to own. I love 914's in all forms. Okay well there are some body kits out there (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon8.gif) |
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| DBCooper |
Oct 8 2015, 08:41 PM
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#11
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14's in the 13's with ATTITUDE Group: Members Posts: 3,079 Joined: 25-August 04 From: Dazed and Confused Member No.: 2,618 Region Association: Northern California |
Pat, you know the 014 is referred to as a "momentum car" that will lose in the straights but then catch up in the curves? For some people (you) that's as far as that thought goes, that's what it is so we're done. But for a lot of other people that "lose in the straights" is a symptom of a problem, a shortcoming, something that can and should be resolved. Fuck it, if we're losing on the straights let's make the damn thing faster and not concede anything ANYWHERE. It's human nature, when something has a problem that can be fixed it should be fixed. Don't rail against it, it's sweeping back the tide. We aren't museum curators, we're car guys, and we WILL go faster.
It's just fun. Fun is good, right? |
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| mgp4591 |
Oct 8 2015, 09:08 PM
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#12
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,369 Joined: 1-August 12 From: Salt Lake City Ut Member No.: 14,748 Region Association: Intermountain Region
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QUOTE(Chris H. @ Oct 8 2015, 08:09 PM) QUOTE(mgp4591 @ Oct 8 2015, 08:53 PM) I'm not sure which axle is stronger- has anyone used a resplined Suby axle instead of the 914? One might think that the years have made a stronger axle to use. Then again, maybe it's not long enough? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) I haven't heard that line in years... Well I won't say they are too short, but they aren't the right length (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) . Much easier to use the 914 axles...HIGHLY unlikely you'll snap an axle. The CV joint will be more than happy to break first. Trust me. And you haven't had any strength problems using the stock 914 cv joints with the power applied by the mighty EG33? And whose axles are you using? |
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| Mueller |
Oct 8 2015, 09:46 PM
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#13
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 17,146 Joined: 4-January 03 From: Antioch, CA Member No.: 87 Region Association: None
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QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Oct 8 2015, 06:16 PM) Boxster is virtually the same as the Passat and the Passat tranny can be had for $400. Man,you are not kidding....a bunch on eBay for $400 and less...one for $375 shipped! |
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| Andyrew |
Oct 8 2015, 09:54 PM
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#14
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Spooling.... Please wait Group: Members Posts: 13,376 Joined: 20-January 03 From: Riverbank, Ca Member No.: 172 Region Association: Northern California
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You can get them at pick n pulls... Or scrappers...
Last one I picked up was $60 They are also supposedly stronger than the subaru units. lots of interchangable parts with the porsches' like the stub axles.. It makes sense as the more logical option. |
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| DBCooper |
Oct 8 2015, 10:03 PM
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#15
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14's in the 13's with ATTITUDE Group: Members Posts: 3,079 Joined: 25-August 04 From: Dazed and Confused Member No.: 2,618 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(Andyrew @ Oct 8 2015, 08:54 PM) It makes sense as the more logical option. More sense... as long as you're not using a Subaru engine.... right? |
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| Andyrew |
Oct 8 2015, 10:09 PM
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#16
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Spooling.... Please wait Group: Members Posts: 13,376 Joined: 20-January 03 From: Riverbank, Ca Member No.: 172 Region Association: Northern California
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The question was ignoring physical engine itself, and so was my answer. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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| DBCooper |
Oct 8 2015, 10:22 PM
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#17
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14's in the 13's with ATTITUDE Group: Members Posts: 3,079 Joined: 25-August 04 From: Dazed and Confused Member No.: 2,618 Region Association: Northern California |
Fact is that matching any engine to a different manufacturer's transmission introduces so many variables that it's not really viable. Possible, sure, but not logical. The only "logical" solution is to match the engine with the transmission. Unless it's just a theoretical discussion that will probably never be realized. Or no?
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| KELTY360 |
Oct 8 2015, 10:26 PM
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#18
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914 Neferati Group: Members Posts: 5,031 Joined: 31-December 05 From: Pt. Townsend, WA Member No.: 5,344 Region Association: Pacific Northwest
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QUOTE(Pat Garvey @ Oct 8 2015, 06:46 PM) QUOTE(Mueller @ Oct 8 2015, 04:29 PM) Curiosity got me to pondering the above questions.... Suppose non-Subaru motor for the Subaru transmission and non-Boxster/Audi engine for the Boxster transmission. What about axles and hooking up to the drive hubs? One easier or vastly less expensive than the other? Sad! You people have no regard for history/preservation. You want to make an abomination out of a sports car that worked so well. Please vent your silliness elsewhere. It's a 914! Leave it alone! Great to see you back and full of vinegar Pat! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif) |
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| Mike Bellis |
Oct 8 2015, 10:34 PM
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#19
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Resident Electrician Group: Members Posts: 8,345 Joined: 22-June 09 From: Midlothian TX Member No.: 10,496 Region Association: None
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QUOTE(Mueller @ Oct 8 2015, 08:46 PM) QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Oct 8 2015, 06:16 PM) Boxster is virtually the same as the Passat and the Passat tranny can be had for $400. Man,you are not kidding....a bunch on eBay for $400 and less...one for $375 shipped! Plus Boxster flanges are available in 100mm and 108mm depending on 5 or 6 speed respectively. That's bolt on for CV joints. |
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| Andyrew |
Oct 8 2015, 10:35 PM
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#20
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Spooling.... Please wait Group: Members Posts: 13,376 Joined: 20-January 03 From: Riverbank, Ca Member No.: 172 Region Association: Northern California
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QUOTE(DBCooper @ Oct 8 2015, 09:22 PM) Unless it's just a theoretical discussion that will probably never be realized. Nail on the head (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
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