Managing the value of the 914 Options

[toolguy]

Seems like the overall sentiment for 914-6's here is they are getting overpriced. . . But then you run across ones that have been professionally restored by a business, who then has to recoup their shop labor prices as well as the ever increasing cost of the many rare and obsolete Six parts. . One thing to keep in mind, we are pretty much a group of owners who do our own work, thus cutting our overall restoration costs. .We are a minority. . there are plenty of people with disposable income who do not have that talent, and they are the ones who will drive the top end prices. .
Two cases in point. . .
Here is a listing for a Six .
Their asking is a smidgen over $150,000. .
Take a look at the pictures I looked at the car last week, It's a nice car, nice work but as they found out, original Six parts are getting impossible to find. . While some non standard and later parts used, and it's not the original motor or trans, but the cost of the finished products continue to rise none the less. .

http://www.makellosclassics.com/?p=12063

Here's one in Germany for $195,000
https://www.classicdriver.com/en/car/porsche/914/1970/237277

[somd914]

The 914 is the last and final Porsche within financial reach for many.

All in all a well reasoned argument, but I have to disagree with the above statement:

924, 944, 928 for classics

996, Boxsters, Cayenne for modern

Still plenty of affordable Porsches out there.


But I guess my question is for all these "914's are turning to gold" threads, did you buy a 914 as investment or did you buy it to build, drive, and enjoy? Seems many are wanting/hoping to make it big on a penny stocks... If it happens, so be it, but for me even if the market collapsed, I'd still enjoy my cars and feel they are worth every dollar and hour I put into them.

[mepstein]

The 914 is the last and final Porsche within financial reach for many.

All in all a well reasoned argument, but I have to disagree with the above statement:

924, 944, 928 for classics

996, Boxsters, Cayenne for modern

Still plenty of affordable Porsches out there.


But I guess my question is for all these "914's are turning to gold" threads, did you buy a 914 as investment or did you buy it to build, drive, and enjoy? Seems many are wanting/hoping to make it big on a penny stocks... If it happens, so be it, but for me even if the market collapsed, I'd still enjoy my cars and feel they are worth every dollar and hour I put into them.

I hope it collapses, I want a couple more.

[turk22]

I would like my car to appreciate. Its not why I bought it, but I reasoned that at the price I paid, I would probably never lose money on it, if I was faithful to the originality and was a good owner.
Reality is that the best cars will appreciate, and the others will not, just the nature of 40 year old models that they don't make any longer.

[wes]

I sapose that if the day comes I want to sell mine I'll want them to suddenly turn to gold but my first one was a deal at $700 and I'd drove it for five years with not a lot of repair (problely just lucky) and in that time totally fell in love with them. Never felt I had an investment just a very fun inexpensive car that seemingly no one carerd to work on. Now I'm in Thailand for the holidays and talking one of my wife's nephews probly 20 21 young anyways only know's Porsche to be a rich mans toy completely out of reach for him his entire life and when I told him that it is a mid engine car it sudnly became comparable to a Ferrari, well anyway in this country most everyone thinks all Americans are rich!

[EdwardBlume]

Not correcting...just pointing the OP towards "reality". If he/she disagrees with my premise, I will not be offended. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

T

It was nice to see so many people correct the 1st person that posted on this thread.

And to the person who doesn't care for "flippers/dealers"...I guess you don't care for Bruce Canepa of Canepa Design too? He's the ultimate "flipper"! Like it or not, it takes all kinds to make the car world go around.

T

No. If you sell a car to Canepa you know exactly what its for and who it will go to. Not a flipper. A flipper shows up and says he / she wants the car and will drive it, 2 months later its on ebay with $10K added. Not the guy I'll buy a beer for. That said, I'll buy Bruce Canepa a beer all day long. Honesty is a virtue. I said nothing about dealers.

[thieuster]

The 914 is the last and final Porsche within financial reach for many.

All in all a well reasoned argument, but I have to disagree with the above statement:

924, 944, 928 for classics

996, Boxsters, Cayenne for modern

Still plenty of affordable Porsches out there.


But I guess my question is for all these "914's are turning to gold" threads, did you buy a 914 as investment or did you buy it to build, drive, and enjoy? Seems many are wanting/hoping to make it big on a penny stocks... If it happens, so be it, but for me even if the market collapsed, I'd still enjoy my cars and feel they are worth every dollar and hour I put into them.

True, the 924, 944 and 928 prices are low, even here in Europe. But these cars have their own bunch of followers since these cars have a different set up (engine, cooling).

The modern Porsches... well, they are still pretty expensive here.

[smveril]

As many stated, 914's have not appreciated like 911's.

When I consider I picked up a 76 914 with perfect inner rockers, some hell hole damage but no suspension damage, a perfect pan, needing a driver's sill, with no interior and a transmission and linkage for $800 in Oct., it seems to me that values have not climbed tremendously. A 912 in the same condition would be 10X as much or so.

Good 914s, such as my almost restored 73 2.0 are worth good money.

[johnhora]

toolguy...

wow that one at http://www.makellosclassics.com/?p=12063 is really nice
and as you pointed out they have spent a lot of time and $$$ getting it into such a nice condition
$150k is probably not too much for this one....

[aircooledtechguy]

A lot of us on here are also fans of classic VWs. With that said, an early 911 is not unlike a split bus and a 914-6 is similar to a bay bus. The bays will NEVER be worth what a similar split goes for but they are rising in value fast as the splits get out of reach of most folks.

[stevegm]

Buyers set the price by either handing over their money or not. Remember, if 914's go high, people buy other cars that become more attractive price wise. Perfect 4's will bring strong money to a collector but the average price of a 4 has barely changed since I bought my 1st one 30 years ago. 6's have jumped but the $100k six is often quoted but rarely seen. Most seem to sell for $40-60k.

I think if sellers could strongly influence the selling price of a product, we would have never had a real estate crash. No homeowner wants to sell a house for less than than they paid.

I agree.

Interesting story (I don't know if it is true) - In the late 70s or early 80s, as the story goes, a gentleman in Florida bought 4 or 5 Ferrari Dinos. Back then they were cheap, for a Ferrari. He then ran an ad in the old AutoTrader (the old-school print magazine) for one of the cars at a ridiculous price. The following month, he ran the same ad, and marked it as SOLD. He did this a couple times and the prices of the Dinos rose dramatically, never to go back down. Illegal, I am sure. But, interesting story.

As for the OP suggestion - First, the market for these cars is fairly efficient - a relatively large number of sellers, a relatively large number of buyers, very low transaction costs (thanks to the internet), and fairly high degree of transparency as to condition (assuming one wants to actually look into the true condition of the car they are considering). It is unlikely that a single seller, or even a dozen sellers can impact the price point of the overall market much, in my opinion.

So, what will impact the price point? The press and attention the 914 has been getting, such as Amelia Island, etc. is having a small impact, I believe. But, on which cars? The cheap ones that need restoration? No. The mid-priced cars? Not really, in my opinion. Most of the press will likely have its largest impact on the high-end 914s. Collectors and investors see the press, and see the attention it is getting. They know what happened to early 911 prices. And they have the money to buy the cars before they go up in price to much. They also know better than to buy anything but the best cars. Many investors/collectors don't necessarily want to work on them, per se. So why buy a car that needs to be restored, and could easily end up financially upside down?

The other factor possibly affecting price increases that we should consider, is basic supply and demand. As the other air-cooled Porsches have gone up in price, it has closed out a lot of potential buyers, who can't afford the cars (early 911s, etc.). Those buyers still want a Porsche, and often want a 70s-era car that is air-cooled. Currently, the 914 is their only real, still low priced, option, since the 912s are going up as well. Some will want the 914. Some won't.

As those buyers come into the market for 914s, it should cause the cars to go up in price. More buyers/demand, fixed supply. Price goes up. Interestingly, the fact that the 914 was so prone to rust should help push those prices faster. Although Porsche likes to advertise that something like 70% of their cars are still on the road, that 70% isn't 914s. Rather, all of the estimates I have seen indicate that only around 17 - 20% of the 914s built are even left in existence. And we all know many of those aren't on the road. The relative shortage of good, fairly rust-free 914s, coupled with the influx of potential new buyers, pushed out of the 911/912 market by rising prices, is likely to have the largest impact on the prices of our 914s, in the next few years, in my opinion. And this should impact the prices of all 914s, not just the best of the best. Just my .02. Sorry I didn't have time to write a shorter post.

[struckn]

What I'm reading in some of the articles of late is that the 914 originally was so different then the 356-911 that it was not appreciated for what it truly was when introduced. More recently the design, both in shape and as one of the first mid engine sports car, it is being recognized the P car that lead the way to the newer P cars Boxster/Cayman. In fact both of these 2016 designs will have mid engine Flat 4 Turbo's, not seen since the 914. So, the 914 when introduced could be said to be ahead of it's time, and better received today then when first introduced. It's desirability the attention is compounded by the desire to revert back to a true and simple Sports Car. Ask a 911 guy if he wants one, they're big fans.

[Mike Fitton]

Not correcting...just pointing the OP towards "reality". If he/she disagrees with my premise, I will not be offended. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

T

It was nice to see so many people correct the 1st person that posted on this thread.

And to the person who doesn't care for "flippers/dealers"...I guess you don't care for Bruce Canepa of Canepa Design too? He's the ultimate "flipper"! Like it or not, it takes all kinds to make the car world go around.

T

No. If you sell a car to Canepa you know exactly what its for and who it will go to. Not a flipper. A flipper shows up and says he / she wants the car and will drive it, 2 months later its on ebay with $10K added. Not the guy I'll buy a beer for. That said, I'll buy Bruce Canepa a beer all day long. Honesty is a virtue. I said nothing about dealers.

Who cares what the buyer does with the car as long as the seller is happy. I mean every seller is different some are original owners and some are 3rd and 4th owners. I bought my '74 2.0 in 2012 for $8,500 from the 3rd owner who was just flipping it and he paid $6,000 4 months earlier so he was happy and so was I when I sold it in 2014 $20,000. Guess what my buyer was happy too because now he has a $30,000 car.

[somd914]

What I'm reading in some of the articles of late is that the 914 originally was so different then the 356-911 that it was not appreciated for what it truly was when introduced. More recently the design, both in shape and as one of the first mid engine sports car, it is being recognized the P car that lead the way to the newer P cars Boxster/Cayman. In fact both of these 2016 designs will have mid engine Flat 4 Turbo's, not seen since the 914. So, the 914 when introduced could be said to be ahead of it's time, and better received today then when first introduced. It's desirability the attention is compounded by the desire to revert back to a true and simple Sports Car. Ask a 911 guy if he wants one, they're big fans.

And yet Porsche stills distances themselves from the 914 with the Boxster/Caymen turbo four by naming them after the 718, which many seem to feel is quite a stretch, and I agree. No mention of 914 heritage unfortunately.

I agree the departure from the 356/911 was likely a strike against it, but the VW partnership did it's damage. Heck, if things worked out as planned, all of us four owners would have been driving cars badged as VWs. And based on what I've encountered from knowledgeable car enthusiasts, the partnership is still considered a negative aspect by many. But we all know that time heals wounds and may likely be forgotten in time.

Do 911 guys want them? Some do, myself included, some don't. Do 914 guys want 911s? Seems some do and some don't. Any 914 guys out there wanting a 944 besides me?

But anyway, we all have our theories as to where prices will go. Some say up, some say down, some say status quo. Hmmm, sounds like Wall Street predictions... Time will tell, and the factors driving the market are likely beyond our control.

[Hank914]

What I'm reading in some of the articles of late is that the 914 originally was so different then the 356-911 that it was not appreciated for what it truly was when introduced. More recently the design, both in shape and as one of the first mid engine sports car, it is being recognized the P car that lead the way to the newer P cars Boxster/Cayman. In fact both of these 2016 designs will have mid engine Flat 4 Turbo's, not seen since the 914. So, the 914 when introduced could be said to be ahead of it's time, and better received today then when first introduced. It's desirability the attention is compounded by the desire to revert back to a true and simple Sports Car. Ask a 911 guy if he wants one, they're big fans.

And yet Porsche stills distances themselves from the 914 with the Boxster/Caymen turbo four by naming them after the 718, which many seem to feel is quite a stretch, and I agree. No mention of 914 heritage unfortunately.

I agree the departure from the 356/911 was likely a strike against it, but the VW partnership did it's damage. Heck, if things worked out as planned, all of us four owners would have been driving cars badged as VWs. And based on what I've encountered from knowledgeable car enthusiasts, the partnership is still considered a negative aspect by many. But we all know that time heals wounds and may likely be forgotten in time.

Do 911 guys want them? Some do, myself included, some don't. Do 914 guys want 911s? Seems some do and some don't. Any 914 guys out there wanting a 944 besides me?

But anyway, we all have our theories as to where prices will go. Some say up, some say down, some say status quo. Hmmm, sounds like Wall Street predictions... Time will tell, and the factors driving the market are likely beyond our control.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)


"... but the VW partnership did it's damage. Heck, if things worked out as planned, all of us four owners would have been driving cars badged as VWs. And based on what I've encountered from knowledgeable car enthusiasts, the partnership is still considered a negative aspect by many."

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

I consider myself a 914 owner first. Not an uppity Porsche owner, since I think the porcupine joke still applies to most 911 Porsche owners more than VW/914 owners. But I'm a (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) guy more than wine guy.

[scotty b]

What I'm reading in some of the articles of late is that the 914 originally was so different then the 356-911 that it was not appreciated for what it truly was when introduced. More recently the design, both in shape and as one of the first mid engine sports car, it is being recognized the P car that lead the way to the newer P cars Boxster/Cayman. In fact both of these 2016 designs will have mid engine Flat 4 Turbo's, not seen since the 914. So, the 914 when introduced could be said to be ahead of it's time, and better received today then when first introduced. It's desirability the attention is compounded by the desire to revert back to a true and simple Sports Car. Ask a 911 guy if he wants one, they're big fans.

Do 911 guys want them? YES I am getting a LOT of inquiries from current, long term 911 AND 356 owners looking for a good 914 project Some do, myself included, some don't. Do 914 guys want 911s? YES, that's why they have a 914, they can'tr afford 911's Seems some do and some don't. Any 914 guys out there wanting a 944 besides me? Had 3, the current has been my DD for about 2 months now since I gave my dad the Vulva (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

But anyway, we all have our theories as to where prices will go. Some say up, some say down, some say status quo. Hmmm, sounds like Wall Street predictions... Time will tell, and the factors driving the market are likely beyond our control.

But then again, it's been well established I don't make the best life choices (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[Maltese Falcon]

I remember the big fanfare with the '97 986 Boxster coming on the scene.
Ads were linking the car to the James Dean heritage days of the 550 Spyder (wtf ?) totally skipping any 914 4 or 6 mention. Porsche sure digs the 914 nowdays...well represented at Amelia + Renn5.
My car proudly wears this badge. Cars + coffee conversation piece for most people that are not in the know.

[Hank914]

I remember the big fanfare with the '97 986 Boxster coming on the scene.
Ads were linking the car to the James Dean heritage days of the 550 Spyder (wtf ?) totally skipping any 914 4 or 6 mention. Porsche sure digs the 914 nowdays...well represented at Amelia + Renn5.
My car proudly wears this badge. Cars + coffee conversation piece for most people that are not in the know.

Is this a custom badge?

I thought the Euro 914-6's were Porsche-only, and 914-4's were VW-Porsche badged?
I'm evidently confused...

[BillC]

I think in the long run, it's best for all of us if the prices of 914s to drift upward. They'll probably never get near early-911 prices, and I don't really want them to, but increasing sales prices should end up increasing the supply of replacement parts -- if the car is worth more, people will spend more to restore them, providing incentives to manufacture parts that are currently hard or impossible to find.

[Maltese Falcon]

Hank...I picked up this badge at a dealership near Stuttgart in 1985. I was in Frankfurt for the Automechannica expo. I don't know much more about its history , but bought it along with French 914 tail light lenses.
Too cool to pass up !