I've been thinking about witting this thread for a while now. I think we may have the ability to influence the pricing of the 914. I realize that we base values on past sales, but I think that the asking price sets the expectation of the final price.

If early 911s can run for $165,000-300,000 then the 914/6 should be in the same range. Creamsickles and Bumblebees should be up there too and excellent /4 should all be over the $100,000 mark.

The seller's expectation of the final sales price doesn't mean shit.

I don't get your reasoning.

I get what you're saying but doubt it will ever happen (sorry). Regardless of the strides made, the 9-1-4 is still the "model" Porsche wish they'd never made - so to speak. This sentiment is very much still alive. Telling everyone to "get on board" and ask more for their cars isn't a strategy that will work. I'll never say never but...

T

Aren't lower values better for those of us who want to own, collect, and maintain 914's?

Buyers set the price by either handing over their money or not. Remember, if 914's go high, people buy other cars that become more attractive price wise. Perfect 4's will bring strong money to a collector but the average price of a 4 has barely changed since I bought my 1st one 30 years ago. 6's have jumped but the $100k six is often quoted but rarely seen. Most seem to sell for $40-60k.

I think if sellers could strongly influence the selling price of a product, we would have never had a real estate crash. No homeowner wants to sell a house for less than than they paid.

If there was only say 50 914 ever made, maybe one can position the price point for a 914 -4 / 6.
My impression of the current interest are due to two market conditions. The " entry " point for a Porsche, second and those that have the expendable resources to relive that "could have should have moments of the past "....like myself back in 83 I looked and touch the 914 -6 GT that Seinfeld currently owns for 25 k. I wanted to purchase it, but my better half reminded me that I will never sell it, the other comment was you already have a 914 -6.
Thus my opinion is similar to the above.

Google the Theory of Value.

I like the word appreciation

Two different things

I want the price of 914s and their parts to stay low....unless I ever sell mine. And then I want the prices to go batshit crazy.

You are all thinking the same thing...I just happened to come out and say it.

It seems to me it's a simpel old standerd of supply and demand!i

Ultimately the buyer sets the price.

Sure, we could form a cartel and ask crazy prices for our cars but:

1) There are plenty of owners/dealers out there who would under sell us.

2) Buyers would seek other cars such as 911 SC or 911 Carreras with many nice ones available for under $40k or 944s with nice ones under $15k, or...

It was nice to see so many people correct the 1st person that posted on this thread.

Value is relative and flippers suck. If you don't drive what you have you're not an enthusiast. I'd give a spare part to a friend, but not to money changer. What does this have to do with value? Everything.

Sorry, didn't mean to sound like a crass douchebag.

I guess you're thinking that increasing the asking price of 914's will influence the overall selling price. Maybe might have an effect, but I don't see how you'd pull that off with so many different sellers across the country.

Having a far greater effect on rising prices is the Amelia Island honors, the PCA's greater welcoming of the 914, Panorama's articles on our car, even Walker's interest. Also, have you noticed the diminishing number of NARP quotes?

IMO....the values of average condition cars will stay the same or slowly creep up over time mainly due to the amount that were originally produced. The real increase will be in the few exceptional / excellent condition original cars. The market for exceptional cars is driven by the hard core Porsche lovers / collectors that are now waking up and recognizing the true value of the 914. Exceptional cars are typically not sold on eBay or graigslist.....they quietly change hands for large sums of money that the general public isn't aware of.

Not correcting...just pointing the OP towards "reality". If he/she disagrees with my premise, I will not be offended.

T



And to the person who doesn't care for "flippers/dealers"...I guess you don't care for Bruce Canepa of Canepa Design too? He's the ultimate "flipper"! Like it or not, it takes all kinds to make the car world go around.

T

About 6 - 7 yrs. ago, the 912 was dismissed as the 'physically challenged 911'... missing two cylinders. Back then, prices were not too high. Nowadays, 912s are sold for serious money / sales prices we hadn't anticilpated at that time!

The 914s are on a T junction! Left turn: the model Porsche regrets having built - up to this day. (exhiblt A: at the Grand Opening of the World's First Porsche Classic Car Center last month, all models were represented, except the 914!). Right turn: the urge of people to be able to drop the keys of a classic Porsche on top of the bar... The 914 is the last and final Porsche within financial reach for many.

We don't know which way it will go. But there are some things to consider:
- 70% of all Porsches ever built is still on the road and Porsche want to keep it thay way by remanufacturing parts for ALL types. (dixit: Herr Brautigam from Porsche AG).
- Porsche is all about emotion. Nobody needs a Porsche, everybody wants a Porsche. Even a 914.
- Supply and demand: a lot of the 914s were sold to the US. A larger pond with more fishes to catch. Therefore prices in Europe (smaller pond = less cars...) are higher than US prices.
- Tone of voice: every time we, forum members, comment on high asking prices wtih 'too much' and 'I would never...', new buyers will take these words for truth and that will influence prices as well.
- The influence of Group Buys: over on the British Triumph TR forum, a rant is going on about the average age of the TR owners and the archaic attitude of the club. Peopel are walking away. Here: younger people join 914world, also for the wonderful GBs and the interesting CAD/CAM solutions for old problems. It's not only a matter of keeping these cars on the road; members here seek and find 21st century solutions for old problems.
- The generous way people are applauded for engine swaps, flares etc. Modding a 914 is not a dirty trick. It's part of the 914world! That's important for many people considering a 914.
- Finally: Magnus Walker... despite all un-important stuff about his character and driving skills written on this very forum, his name and fame will boost the 914 into new territory. If you like it or not. Better: his marketing skills will put the 914 in the spotlights. And that will raise new interest.

I see no reason why prices will stay the same. They will go up.

I agree.

I guess the new question is will the cost/value of 914's appreciate. The OP presented a case as to be on equal footing with the crazed early 911 prices. Two very different points. I agree that, just as they have to this day, 914's have appreciated and will continue to do so. I am still of the opinioin, however, that they will not climb the inflation ladder and look the 911 models square in the eye. Capiche? Lets keep the conversation on an apples to apples basis or clearly delineate the "new" opinion. Makes only sense when veering off on a branch of the original thought.

PS: I'm not "yelling" or upset, just sayin'...regarding the above. Very upset about below.

PS#2: While watching some youtube racing videos today, a MW video came up. NOW I realize why people were so critical of the A-Hole. This guy is any parents or grandparents worst nightmare on the road. I'm not talking about just a little joy-riding, I'm talking complete, utter disregard for human life. Any "grace" earned by his defenders (which makes NO SENSE at all with what I was watching - too many people drinking the cool-aide!) here went down the drain immediately. Either he 180's on his driving style, makes apologies publicly, and stops that nonsense or screw him. He is influencing young minds with judgement calls an 8th-grader would be ashamed of...what a douche bag! I had never heard of the fella prior to that big post last week...I'll forever ignore anything he does from here on out too. Outsiders make their life on our soil then try to bury us in it. Pathetic.

Before even thinking of defending this idiot watch this (and envision your family in cars around him)!:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXdq3lGwrCk

T

Wow...pretty damn stupid stuff...

Starts off by speeding in a congested downtown area and goes downhill from there with street racing.

Yep. Needs to keep that kind of driving on the track.

Seems like the overall sentiment for 914-6's here is they are getting overpriced. . . But then you run across ones that have been professionally restored by a business, who then has to recoup their shop labor prices as well as the ever increasing cost of the many rare and obsolete Six parts. . One thing to keep in mind, we are pretty much a group of owners who do our own work, thus cutting our overall restoration costs. .We are a minority. . there are plenty of people with disposable income who do not have that talent, and they are the ones who will drive the top end prices. .
Two cases in point. . .
Here is a listing for a Six .
Their asking is a smidgen over $150,000. .
Take a look at the pictures I looked at the car last week, It's a nice car, nice work but as they found out, original Six parts are getting impossible to find. . While some non standard and later parts used, and it's not the original motor or trans, but the cost of the finished products continue to rise none the less. .

http://www.makellosclassics.com/?p=12063

Here's one in Germany for $195,000
https://www.classicdriver.com/en/car/porsche/914/1970/237277

All in all a well reasoned argument, but I have to disagree with the above statement:

924, 944, 928 for classics

996, Boxsters, Cayenne for modern

Still plenty of affordable Porsches out there.


But I guess my question is for all these "914's are turning to gold" threads, did you buy a 914 as investment or did you buy it to build, drive, and enjoy? Seems many are wanting/hoping to make it big on a penny stocks... If it happens, so be it, but for me even if the market collapsed, I'd still enjoy my cars and feel they are worth every dollar and hour I put into them.

I hope it collapses, I want a couple more.

I would like my car to appreciate. Its not why I bought it, but I reasoned that at the price I paid, I would probably never lose money on it, if I was faithful to the originality and was a good owner.
Reality is that the best cars will appreciate, and the others will not, just the nature of 40 year old models that they don't make any longer.

I sapose that if the day comes I want to sell mine I'll want them to suddenly turn to gold but my first one was a deal at $700 and I'd drove it for five years with not a lot of repair (problely just lucky) and in that time totally fell in love with them. Never felt I had an investment just a very fun inexpensive car that seemingly no one carerd to work on. Now I'm in Thailand for the holidays and talking one of my wife's nephews probly 20 21 young anyways only know's Porsche to be a rich mans toy completely out of reach for him his entire life and when I told him that it is a mid engine car it sudnly became comparable to a Ferrari, well anyway in this country most everyone thinks all Americans are rich!

No. If you sell a car to Canepa you know exactly what its for and who it will go to. Not a flipper. A flipper shows up and says he / she wants the car and will drive it, 2 months later its on ebay with $10K added. Not the guy I'll buy a beer for. That said, I'll buy Bruce Canepa a beer all day long. Honesty is a virtue. I said nothing about dealers.

True, the 924, 944 and 928 prices are low, even here in Europe. But these cars have their own bunch of followers since these cars have a different set up (engine, cooling).

The modern Porsches... well, they are still pretty expensive here.

As many stated, 914's have not appreciated like 911's.

When I consider I picked up a 76 914 with perfect inner rockers, some hell hole damage but no suspension damage, a perfect pan, needing a driver's sill, with no interior and a transmission and linkage for $800 in Oct., it seems to me that values have not climbed tremendously. A 912 in the same condition would be 10X as much or so.

Good 914s, such as my almost restored 73 2.0 are worth good money.

toolguy...

wow that one at http://www.makellosclassics.com/?p=12063 is really nice
and as you pointed out they have spent a lot of time and $$$ getting it into such a nice condition
$150k is probably not too much for this one....

A lot of us on here are also fans of classic VWs. With that said, an early 911 is not unlike a split bus and a 914-6 is similar to a bay bus. The bays will NEVER be worth what a similar split goes for but they are rising in value fast as the splits get out of reach of most folks.

I agree.

Interesting story (I don't know if it is true) - In the late 70s or early 80s, as the story goes, a gentleman in Florida bought 4 or 5 Ferrari Dinos. Back then they were cheap, for a Ferrari. He then ran an ad in the old AutoTrader (the old-school print magazine) for one of the cars at a ridiculous price. The following month, he ran the same ad, and marked it as SOLD. He did this a couple times and the prices of the Dinos rose dramatically, never to go back down. Illegal, I am sure. But, interesting story.

As for the OP suggestion - First, the market for these cars is fairly efficient - a relatively large number of sellers, a relatively large number of buyers, very low transaction costs (thanks to the internet), and fairly high degree of transparency as to condition (assuming one wants to actually look into the true condition of the car they are considering). It is unlikely that a single seller, or even a dozen sellers can impact the price point of the overall market much, in my opinion.

So, what will impact the price point? The press and attention the 914 has been getting, such as Amelia Island, etc. is having a small impact, I believe. But, on which cars? The cheap ones that need restoration? No. The mid-priced cars? Not really, in my opinion. Most of the press will likely have its largest impact on the high-end 914s. Collectors and investors see the press, and see the attention it is getting. They know what happened to early 911 prices. And they have the money to buy the cars before they go up in price to much. They also know better than to buy anything but the best cars. Many investors/collectors don't necessarily want to work on them, per se. So why buy a car that needs to be restored, and could easily end up financially upside down?

The other factor possibly affecting price increases that we should consider, is basic supply and demand. As the other air-cooled Porsches have gone up in price, it has closed out a lot of potential buyers, who can't afford the cars (early 911s, etc.). Those buyers still want a Porsche, and often want a 70s-era car that is air-cooled. Currently, the 914 is their only real, still low priced, option, since the 912s are going up as well. Some will want the 914. Some won't.

As those buyers come into the market for 914s, it should cause the cars to go up in price. More buyers/demand, fixed supply. Price goes up. Interestingly, the fact that the 914 was so prone to rust should help push those prices faster. Although Porsche likes to advertise that something like 70% of their cars are still on the road, that 70% isn't 914s. Rather, all of the estimates I have seen indicate that only around 17 - 20% of the 914s built are even left in existence. And we all know many of those aren't on the road. The relative shortage of good, fairly rust-free 914s, coupled with the influx of potential new buyers, pushed out of the 911/912 market by rising prices, is likely to have the largest impact on the prices of our 914s, in the next few years, in my opinion. And this should impact the prices of all 914s, not just the best of the best. Just my .02. Sorry I didn't have time to write a shorter post.

What I'm reading in some of the articles of late is that the 914 originally was so different then the 356-911 that it was not appreciated for what it truly was when introduced. More recently the design, both in shape and as one of the first mid engine sports car, it is being recognized the P car that lead the way to the newer P cars Boxster/Cayman. In fact both of these 2016 designs will have mid engine Flat 4 Turbo's, not seen since the 914. So, the 914 when introduced could be said to be ahead of it's time, and better received today then when first introduced. It's desirability the attention is compounded by the desire to revert back to a true and simple Sports Car. Ask a 911 guy if he wants one, they're big fans.

Who cares what the buyer does with the car as long as the seller is happy. I mean every seller is different some are original owners and some are 3rd and 4th owners. I bought my '74 2.0 in 2012 for $8,500 from the 3rd owner who was just flipping it and he paid $6,000 4 months earlier so he was happy and so was I when I sold it in 2014 $20,000. Guess what my buyer was happy too because now he has a $30,000 car.

And yet Porsche stills distances themselves from the 914 with the Boxster/Caymen turbo four by naming them after the 718, which many seem to feel is quite a stretch, and I agree. No mention of 914 heritage unfortunately.

I agree the departure from the 356/911 was likely a strike against it, but the VW partnership did it's damage. Heck, if things worked out as planned, all of us four owners would have been driving cars badged as VWs. And based on what I've encountered from knowledgeable car enthusiasts, the partnership is still considered a negative aspect by many. But we all know that time heals wounds and may likely be forgotten in time.

Do 911 guys want them? Some do, myself included, some don't. Do 914 guys want 911s? Seems some do and some don't. Any 914 guys out there wanting a 944 besides me?

But anyway, we all have our theories as to where prices will go. Some say up, some say down, some say status quo. Hmmm, sounds like Wall Street predictions... Time will tell, and the factors driving the market are likely beyond our control.

"... but the VW partnership did it's damage. Heck, if things worked out as planned, all of us four owners would have been driving cars badged as VWs. And based on what I've encountered from knowledgeable car enthusiasts, the partnership is still considered a negative aspect by many."



I consider myself a 914 owner first. Not an uppity Porsche owner, since I think the porcupine joke still applies to most 911 Porsche owners more than VW/914 owners. But I'm a guy more than wine guy.

But then again, it's been well established I don't make the best life choices

I remember the big fanfare with the '97 986 Boxster coming on the scene.
Ads were linking the car to the James Dean heritage days of the 550 Spyder (wtf ?) totally skipping any 914 4 or 6 mention. Porsche sure digs the 914 nowdays...well represented at Amelia + Renn5.
My car proudly wears this badge. Cars + coffee conversation piece for most people that are not in the know.Click to view attachment

Is this a custom badge?

I thought the Euro 914-6's were Porsche-only, and 914-4's were VW-Porsche badged?
I'm evidently confused...

I think in the long run, it's best for all of us if the prices of 914s to drift upward. They'll probably never get near early-911 prices, and I don't really want them to, but increasing sales prices should end up increasing the supply of replacement parts -- if the car is worth more, people will spend more to restore them, providing incentives to manufacture parts that are currently hard or impossible to find.

Hank...I picked up this badge at a dealership near Stuttgart in 1985. I was in Frankfurt for the Automechannica expo. I don't know much more about its history , but bought it along with French 914 tail light lenses.
Too cool to pass up !

Marty, That looks like it's a Euro delivery 914-6 badge that was fitted on the back of the car between the tail lights and trunk release button. Very cool, and I believe NLA from Porsche.

Spot on , now the million dollar question. What's the euro -6 emblem and French lens worth these days?

A few random thoughts on values...

Those of you who know me, know I am new to 914s, and if you don't know me, well, that just affirms I am new to 914s.

But I am not new to 912s. I bought my first one in 2002, which is about the time the 912 Registry took form, and I have been fairly immeshed with both the car and the club ever since. In that time, I have had a front row seat to watching these cars go from things that people were almost ready to throw away, to things that people obsess now over whether the plating on each nut is correct. And in my mind, this transition can be attributed to many factors, many which may apply or come to apply to the 914:

1.) Does the experience that car offers, based solely on its own merits, correlate to the dollar amount that the car is worth? In 2002 I remember seeing a 911 prototype in a museum that was pretty much priceless even then, yet a nearly identical looking 912 was then considered almost worthless. In terms of smiles to gallon, I saw a real imbalance here! In 2004, a friend of mine spent nearly 3x what any 912 was worth to restore one to factory concours. To him, his enjoyment of the car justified the cost. It turns out, he wasn't alone, and soon others followed his example. Today his car is worth 2x to 3x what he paid to have it restored. A 914 is a virtuous car! I think the experience they offer represents a tremendous value. Cruising down the 395 on an epic drive, there is probably not a ton of difference between a 1970 914-6 and 1973 2.0. Of course a 2.0 will never be as rare or as pedigreed, or consequently as valuable as 6, but the more people see the value they offer by comparison, the less huge the price gap between them is apt to remain.

2.) Used Porsches are just obsolete sporting equipment. Until they become hot collectors items! In 2002, the 356 had only recently been accepted as a bonafide classic car. But 1965 was the cutoff. Early 911s were seen as curios wrought with teething pains. 912s were seen as pretty much pointless. Then about 6 years ago, the line moved to 1973, and suddenly any Porsche with a long hood was collectible. Today I think the line might be 1989, and now anything air-cooled is collectible. The Porsche 914 was designed and engineered by Porsche, and it offers a great aesthetic and ride that is not shared with any other Porsche, thus I think it is fundamentally a car that could appeal to Porsche collectors / enthusiasts. Stigmas change. Happened with 912s. And it will likely happen with 914s.

3.) A rising tide does not lift all boats equally...

In 2002 a decent 912 was maybe $8K. A decent Targa 912 was maybe $8K. A decent sunroof, or early painted dash car, or plain jane common '67-'69 coupe were all within the same range. Today not so much. Special, rare 912 variants sometimes sell for double or tripple. I think, in time, that earlier 914s in rare colors may rise in value more than others. Not sure about bumble bees or creamcicles... are these actually lusted after or just rare®? I honestly don't know. There is an adage about how anything labeled 'collector's edition' usually isn't, and I wonder if it may apply here.

Another thing to consider, is that originality is a huge factor when it comes to collectible Porsches. Back in the day, no one put much of premium on originality when it came to 912s. Color swaps mattered little. Many cars were fitted with updated parts to look newer. Most owners didn't even know what matching numbers even meant. On the 912 registry site, you might have even seen something like a 912 with LS1 featured on the home page. If you like wide flares and crazy engine swaps for your car, more power to you! I love that stuff. But in terms of high-value collector Porsche, only factory original cars need apply. Don't shoot me on this, I am just the messenger.

*

Rising values is a double edged sword. On the one hand, they ensure more cars survive. On the other hand, they are apt to change the culture that surrounds the cars. Its funny, my car hasn't changed since 2002... it is still the same hunk of metal... yet the place it has in the world, and in turn the place it has in my life, has risen considerably since then, which is kinda novel I suppose.

Still, I miss the old carefree days when it was more about fun than money... which is why I am so happy to now also own a 914!

~ Charles Danek / President 912 Registry

This is the economic theory that sets the price in a free market. The price of the -6 has skyrocketed due to an increase in demand and a very little supply. There are too many -4s out there in comparison, except for the LEs. So it may take a while for our little fours to reach that point especially with most of us trying to save them.
Just my $.02

I really would like to have your writing skills (English), sir. But since English isn't my first language...

Menno

Great points! So where is it going from here?

The Original argument does fly!

Early 911s were king of the land when they were new. They were still produced in relatively low numbers.

914's were NARP . Granted 914-6s have risen mightily over the last 3-4 years and 911s have continued. 911 Turbos have gone fuchin crazy. However an LE is not going to ever have the presense of a 914-6 - PERIOD!

Don't forget this 911 Bubble will burst!
When New Owners who jumped on the 911 Bandwagon find out they need a $15-35k Engine Rebuild, a New Front Pan or Rusty Floors that were hidden when they bought it on-line or at auction, they will sit & sit.

Yeah, history does have tendency to repeat itself. They may not fall back down to their starting value when this all started but they WILL fall back. Relative to shoudl've & could've(s) - I don't wish I had bought 914/6's five years ago but I sure wish I had bought all of the LH 911's I could afford. Geez!

T

So if everyone stops trying to save them and send them off to the crusher, then the value of a -4 can rise?

I need prices to plateau for a bit, better yet, come down so I can get one in my garage...

I shouldn't go out on a limb. But I will anyway. I don't think the early 911s (pre-'74) are coming back down. Nor do I think the general 914 prices will come down. Just my .02.