Managing the value of the 914 Options

[kupcar]

Marty, That looks like it's a Euro delivery 914-6 badge that was fitted on the back of the car between the tail lights and trunk release button. Very cool, and I believe NLA from Porsche.

[0396]

Marty, That looks like it's a Euro delivery 914-6 badge that was fitted on the back of the car between the tail lights and trunk release button. Very cool, and I believe NLA from Porsche.

Spot on , now the million dollar question. What's the euro -6 emblem and French lens worth these days?

[Charles Danek]

A few random thoughts on values...

Those of you who know me, know I am new to 914s, and if you don't know me, well, that just affirms I am new to 914s.

But I am not new to 912s. I bought my first one in 2002, which is about the time the 912 Registry took form, and I have been fairly immeshed with both the car and the club ever since. In that time, I have had a front row seat to watching these cars go from things that people were almost ready to throw away, to things that people obsess now over whether the plating on each nut is correct. And in my mind, this transition can be attributed to many factors, many which may apply or come to apply to the 914:

1.) Does the experience that car offers, based solely on its own merits, correlate to the dollar amount that the car is worth? In 2002 I remember seeing a 911 prototype in a museum that was pretty much priceless even then, yet a nearly identical looking 912 was then considered almost worthless. In terms of smiles to gallon, I saw a real imbalance here! In 2004, a friend of mine spent nearly 3x what any 912 was worth to restore one to factory concours. To him, his enjoyment of the car justified the cost. It turns out, he wasn't alone, and soon others followed his example. Today his car is worth 2x to 3x what he paid to have it restored. A 914 is a virtuous car! I think the experience they offer represents a tremendous value. Cruising down the 395 on an epic drive, there is probably not a ton of difference between a 1970 914-6 and 1973 2.0. Of course a 2.0 will never be as rare or as pedigreed, or consequently as valuable as 6, but the more people see the value they offer by comparison, the less huge the price gap between them is apt to remain.

2.) Used Porsches are just obsolete sporting equipment. Until they become hot collectors items! In 2002, the 356 had only recently been accepted as a bonafide classic car. But 1965 was the cutoff. Early 911s were seen as curios wrought with teething pains. 912s were seen as pretty much pointless. Then about 6 years ago, the line moved to 1973, and suddenly any Porsche with a long hood was collectible. Today I think the line might be 1989, and now anything air-cooled is collectible. The Porsche 914 was designed and engineered by Porsche, and it offers a great aesthetic and ride that is not shared with any other Porsche, thus I think it is fundamentally a car that could appeal to Porsche collectors / enthusiasts. Stigmas change. Happened with 912s. And it will likely happen with 914s.

3.) A rising tide does not lift all boats equally...

In 2002 a decent 912 was maybe $8K. A decent Targa 912 was maybe $8K. A decent sunroof, or early painted dash car, or plain jane common '67-'69 coupe were all within the same range. Today not so much. Special, rare 912 variants sometimes sell for double or tripple. I think, in time, that earlier 914s in rare colors may rise in value more than others. Not sure about bumble bees or creamcicles... are these actually lusted after or just rare®? I honestly don't know. There is an adage about how anything labeled 'collector's edition' usually isn't, and I wonder if it may apply here.

Another thing to consider, is that originality is a huge factor when it comes to collectible Porsches. Back in the day, no one put much of premium on originality when it came to 912s. Color swaps mattered little. Many cars were fitted with updated parts to look newer. Most owners didn't even know what matching numbers even meant. On the 912 registry site, you might have even seen something like a 912 with LS1 featured on the home page. If you like wide flares and crazy engine swaps for your car, more power to you! I love that stuff. But in terms of high-value collector Porsche, only factory original cars need apply. Don't shoot me on this, I am just the messenger.

*

Rising values is a double edged sword. On the one hand, they ensure more cars survive. On the other hand, they are apt to change the culture that surrounds the cars. Its funny, my car hasn't changed since 2002... it is still the same hunk of metal... yet the place it has in the world, and in turn the place it has in my life, has risen considerably since then, which is kinda novel I suppose.

Still, I miss the old carefree days when it was more about fun than money... which is why I am so happy to now also own a 914!

~ Charles Danek / President 912 Registry

[914outlaw]

It seems to me it's a simpel old standerd of supply and demand!i

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

This is the economic theory that sets the price in a free market. The price of the -6 has skyrocketed due to an increase in demand and a very little supply. There are too many -4s out there in comparison, except for the LEs. So it may take a while for our little fours to reach that point especially with most of us trying to save them.
Just my $.02

[thieuster]

A few random thoughts on values...

Those of you who know me, know I am new to 914s, and if you don't know me, well, that just affirms I am new to 914s.

But I am not new to 912s. I bought my first one in 2002, which is about the time the 912 Registry took form, and I have been fairly immeshed with both the car and the club ever since. In that time, I have had a front row seat to watching these cars go from things that people were almost ready to throw away, to things that people obsess now over whether the plating on each nut is correct. And in my mind, this transition can be attributed to many factors, many which may apply or come to apply to the 914:

1.) Does the experience that car offers, based solely on its own merits, correlate to the dollar amount that the car is worth? In 2002 I remember seeing a 911 prototype in a museum that was pretty much priceless even then, yet a nearly identical looking 912 was then considered almost worthless. In terms of smiles to gallon, I saw a real imbalance here! In 2004, a friend of mine spent nearly 3x what any 912 was worth to restore one to factory concours. To him, his enjoyment of the car justified the cost. It turns out, he wasn't alone, and soon others followed his example. Today his car is worth 2x to 3x what he paid to have it restored. A 914 is a virtuous car! I think the experience they offer represents a tremendous value. Cruising down the 395 on an epic drive, there is probably not a ton of difference between a 1970 914-6 and 1973 2.0. Of course a 2.0 will never be as rare or as pedigreed, or consequently as valuable as 6, but the more people see the value they offer by comparison, the less huge the price gap between them is apt to remain.

2.) Used Porsches are just obsolete sporting equipment. Until they become hot collectors items! In 2002, the 356 had only recently been accepted as a bonafide classic car. But 1965 was the cutoff. Early 911s were seen as curios wrought with teething pains. 912s were seen as pretty much pointless. Then about 6 years ago, the line moved to 1973, and suddenly any Porsche with a long hood was collectible. Today I think the line might be 1989, and now anything air-cooled is collectible. The Porsche 914 was designed and engineered by Porsche, and it offers a great aesthetic and ride that is not shared with any other Porsche, thus I think it is fundamentally a car that could appeal to Porsche collectors / enthusiasts. Stigmas change. Happened with 912s. And it will likely happen with 914s.

3.) A rising tide does not lift all boats equally...

In 2002 a decent 912 was maybe $8K. A decent Targa 912 was maybe $8K. A decent sunroof, or early painted dash car, or plain jane common '67-'69 coupe were all within the same range. Today not so much. Special, rare 912 variants sometimes sell for double or tripple. I think, in time, that earlier 914s in rare colors may rise in value more than others. Not sure about bumble bees or creamcicles... are these actually lusted after or just rare®? I honestly don't know. There is an adage about how anything labeled 'collector's edition' usually isn't, and I wonder if it may apply here.

Another thing to consider, is that originality is a huge factor when it comes to collectible Porsches. Back in the day, no one put much of premium on originality when it came to 912s. Color swaps mattered little. Many cars were fitted with updated parts to look newer. Most owners didn't even know what matching numbers even meant. On the 912 registry site, you might have even seen something like a 912 with LS1 featured on the home page. If you like wide flares and crazy engine swaps for your car, more power to you! I love that stuff. But in terms of high-value collector Porsche, only factory original cars need apply. Don't shoot me on this, I am just the messenger.

*

Rising values is a double edged sword. On the one hand, they ensure more cars survive. On the other hand, they are apt to change the culture that surrounds the cars. Its funny, my car hasn't changed since 2002... it is still the same hunk of metal... yet the place it has in the world, and in turn the place it has in my life, has risen considerably since then, which is kinda novel I suppose.

Still, I miss the old carefree days when it was more about fun than money... which is why I am so happy to now also own a 914!

~ Charles Danek / President 912 Registry

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

I really would like to have your writing skills (English), sir. But since English isn't my first language...

Menno

[EdwardBlume]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
Great points! So where is it going from here?

[carr914]

The Original argument does fly!

Early 911s were king of the land when they were new. They were still produced in relatively low numbers.

914's were NARP . Granted 914-6s have risen mightily over the last 3-4 years and 911s have continued. 911 Turbos have gone fuchin crazy. However an LE is not going to ever have the presense of a 914-6 - PERIOD!

Don't forget this 911 Bubble will burst! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blowup.gif)
When New Owners who jumped on the 911 Bandwagon find out they need a $15-35k Engine Rebuild, a New Front Pan or Rusty Floors that were hidden when they bought it on-line or at auction, they will sit & sit.

[Cracker]

Yeah, history does have tendency to repeat itself. They may not fall back down to their starting value when this all started but they WILL fall back. Relative to shoudl've & could've(s) - I don't wish I had bought 914/6's five years ago but I sure wish I had bought all of the LH 911's I could afford. Geez! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

T

The Original argument does fly!

Early 911s were king of the land when they were new. They were still produced in relatively low numbers.

914's were NARP . Granted 914-6s have risen mightily over the last 3-4 years and 911s have continued. 911 Turbos have gone fuchin crazy. However an LE is not going to ever have the presense of a 914-6 - PERIOD!

Don't forget this 911 Bubble will burst! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blowup.gif)
When New Owners who jumped on the 911 Bandwagon find out they need a $15-35k Engine Rebuild, a New Front Pan or Rusty Floors that were hidden when they bought it on-line or at auction, they will sit & sit.

[iwanta914-6]

So it may take a while for our little fours to reach that point especially with most of us trying to save them.
Just my $.02

So if everyone stops trying to save them and send them off to the crusher, then the value of a -4 can rise?

I need prices to plateau for a bit, better yet, come down so I can get one in my garage...

[stevegm]

I shouldn't go out on a limb. But I will anyway. I don't think the early 911s (pre-'74) are coming back down. Nor do I think the general 914 prices will come down. Just my .02.

[Cracker]

Steve - You may be correct; and, you may not be - time will tell. Part of the problem is identifying true value. Asking prices for the early cars is sometimes ridiculous (ie: $350k+)! Then you see the same model/year at $125...still for sale. The market is still in a crazy frenzy and too volatile to even establish what the true value is. Like someone else pointed out, sellers can ask (price) whatever they want - that affects the perception of the market but does not set it. Basically, it will be difficult to determine if you're ultimately correct or not - it will take years to determine (most likely). I don't want a 911 - been there and done that - I don't care about their market/values. This conversation started with the misalignment in values (disproportionate) between 911's and 914's. I still believe, with rare exception, that the gap between the two will remain.

Steve: You've got great balance! LOL

[struckn]

One other thought hit me. Porsche E-MISSION! This car takes Porsche in a totally new Direction that in years to come could make the 911s the 914s of the future, and what then do the Air Cooled Porsches, 914s included, become?

(Side note the first Porsche P1 was an all electric car)

[stevegm]

Steve - You may be correct; and, you may not be - time will tell. Part of the problem is identifying true value. Asking prices for the early cars is sometimes ridiculous (ie: $350k+)! Then you see the same model/year at $125...still for sale. The market is still in a crazy frenzy and too volatile to even establish what the true value is. Like someone else pointed out, sellers can ask (price) whatever they want - that affects the perception of the market but does not set it. Basically, it will be difficult to determine if you're ultimately correct or not - it will take years to determine (most likely). I don't want a 911 - been there and done that - I don't care about their market/values. This conversation started with the misalignment in values (disproportionate) between 911's and 914's. I still believe, with rare exception, that the gap between the two will remain.

Steve: You've got great balance! LOL

Very good points. Time will tell. There are pros and cons either way.

[thieuster]

Asking prices for the early cars is sometimes ridiculous (ie: $350k+)!

911 #13 (back then 901) has been sold to a guy I know for 1 million dollar. He imported it into The Netherlands a few months ago.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.vierenzestig.nl-18384-1450804034.1.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.vierenzestig.nl-18384-1450804035.2.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.vierenzestig.nl-18384-1450804073.1.jpg)

Menno

[Manny Alban]

So I've been into 914's since I was 18...thirty years ago. I'm lucky to own an original, preservation winner, 1973 914 2.0. I bought it 22 years ago. Not because I thought it was a collectible, but because it was fun to drive.

7 years ago I bought a 1990 911 C2 in great condition. All records, original, etc. Once again, didn't buy it as an investment, just was fun to drive. I bought it a few years before the bubble. 993's were still high and 3.2 were overpriced. 964's just wallowed in the cellar.

Both of these cars were cheap fun. Now they are worth a lot more than I paid for them. BUT to me, they are still cheap fun. Oh sure, I've upped my insured value for each of them, but, I still drive them.

I doubt the 914 or C2 will ever be considered collectibles when it comes to the big boy collectors. The 914-6 and 964RS (the real RS, not the RS America) will be always sought after. I'm fine with that. I"m not a big boy collector. I just have fun driving it. If my checkbook allowed me to buy a real RS, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

It just sucks that 914 and C2 parts are going up in value as the cars do. I remember buying perfect bumpers for $50.

[Maltese Falcon]

Buy 1978-1983 911SC's now...these are slowly creeping up. Nice torque 3L
light fun car. I'm not a car flipper, but appreciable cars are worth more than bank interest. A smart Porsche purchase is a good place to keep an investment.

[struckn]

Not sure if this was thought of, or mentioned, but, as the 914 cost increases, especially a rapid cost increase, the number of potential 914 buyers decreases due to affordability. The difference in the cost of todays 914 when compared to a used 911, or other vintage Porsche is huge making the existing 911 buyer one of the 914s biggest potential buyer.

However, the biggest competitor to the sale of a 914 is most likely MGB, Triumph or similar era sports car which although they too are increasing in value, they appear to be less costly while the current cost of the 914 seems to entering in to the too expensive range for the typical guy when compared to many British, Italian and Japanese cars on the market. This could reduce the number of potential buyers for the 914 and stabilize it's cost, or even drive down the cost.

[Cal]

Asking prices for the early cars is sometimes ridiculous (ie: $350k+)!

911 #13 (back then 901) has been sold to a guy I know for 1 million dollar. He imported it into The Netherlands a few months ago.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.vierenzestig.nl-18384-1450804034.1.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.vierenzestig.nl-18384-1450804035.2.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.vierenzestig.nl-18384-1450804073.1.jpg)

Menno

This car apparently didn't sell....the owner was offered more then $1M and he turned it down....

[EdwardBlume]

When all cars are electric someday, I wonder what our cars will be worth then..

[horizontally-opposed]

Asking prices for the early cars is sometimes ridiculous (ie: $350k+)!

911 #13 (back then 901) has been sold to a guy I know for 1 million dollar. He imported it into The Netherlands a few months ago.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.vierenzestig.nl-18384-1450804034.1.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.vierenzestig.nl-18384-1450804035.2.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.vierenzestig.nl-18384-1450804073.1.jpg)

Menno

This car apparently didn't sell....the owner was offered more then $1M and he turned it down....

So, was 13 a lucky number in this case?

I don't think 914s will ever be worth what long hood 911s are or will be. Nor, logically, should they—unless we are talking about 914-6s, 914-6 GTs, 914-6 M471s, or 916s. But I do suspect prices for the best regular 914s will track with good and great 912s, early 911Ts, and very good early 911 hot rods—plus or minus some percentage depending on whether it's a top 914-4, a real 914-6, and very good six conversions.

I think Charles Danek nailed it—there is a lot of utility/fun factor in 914s, and there are not a lot of other Porsches that offer a similar set of sensations and sentiments. And yet I've got very mixed feelings about the prices of 911s, 912s, and 914s over the last few years especially. It's a mixed blessing, I suppose, but I worry that the cars will disappear from the roads—whether they're investments or gathered into barns.

There will, however, be no "managing" of the market. It will do what it will do.