Just another 2056 build, Misc Questions Options

[stugray]

I even agreed a while back that it seemed right
At least all of my confusion/interest has been due to the trimming of the cylinders and the existence of that lip.

Sdoolin's method will work out fine, its just somewhat non-standard (unorthodox? :-).

Almost, but not quite, entirely Un-like tea?
It's all the same until he needs a replacement cylinder .... or head.

[sdoolin]

Waiting for some more parts to come in and waiting for my buddie's lathe to become available to manufacture an adjustable pushrod. Can't bring myself to bolt the heads on until I have the adj. pushrod in hand - they are just to pretty...



So many parts still to go...

Dual Dells need to be completely gone through (and I purchased a second set) - I am comfortable rebuilding them - done it plenty with my old bus. Still need to find a dizzy and all engine tin and fan housing still being prepped for paint and/or powder coat.

I munged up (slightly) one exhaust manifold stud whilst installing into head. Really (really) pisses me off.

[Bulldog9]

Y'all are killing me. I think we are in violent agreement that my CR is very nearly 9.0:1?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/hissyfit.gif)

LOL, I feel your pain......... I am little better than an assembly monkey, and all the fancy pants math makes me head hurt....

You can check your attitude.... My only weighing in was my concern over the issue of how reducing deck height would increase your CR, but I'm just an Army grunt.... Looking at my HAM remanufactured heads (as in the original heads being remanufactured) I dont see the step.

In my 2056 build I used the HAM Remanufactured Stock Heads, Stock Crank, Stock Con Rods, 96mm Keith Black Pistons and EMW Jugs with a .060 spacer to get an 8.6 +/- CR. Why did I use a .060 spacer? Jorge at EMW recommended it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drunk.gif) No science involved. My goal was to stay as stock as possible and when I set up the pushrods, came out with measurements within .001 to stock pushrods, so I am guessing my deck height at least as it relates to valve train was pretty close to stock.

I'd hate to see you with a super high CR or to have unauthorized valve/position contact.....

This has been a great learning experience.

[stugray]

I'd hate to see you with a super high CR or to have unauthorized valve/position contact.....

I have:
~9.2 CR
heads that were cut to give me a 56cc comb chamber
.035 Deck Height
~.500 Valve lift with stock valve sizes

And I have sufficient room to avoid valves hitting pistons.

he should be fine, but the clay test is in his plans to be sure.

[sdoolin]

Completed machine work on 1.7 rockers last night. Set the lathe up with a single rocker shaft and its mounts so that I could more or leass assembly line this procedure. Take material off, remove rocker, leave shaft in the "erector set jig", slide another rocker on shaft, repeat.



Now - strangely I seem to have misplaced a single rocker shaft mount. This stuff has been bouncing around my garage and barn for like 20 years. So now on a search for a single item in order to bolt up the rockers...

[stugray]

with all of the jigs and measuring capability you have, is there any way for you to measure the rocker ratio?

[sdoolin]

with all of the jigs and measuring capability you have, is there any way for you to measure the rocker ratio?

Good question, I'm not sure how to approach that? Amount of movement on the pushrod side of the rocker vs amount of movement on the valve side?

[sdoolin]

Not to highjack my own thread - but shouldn't rocker arm ratio for these rockers be known (I haven't googled it yet)? They are like 40 years old (probably older) and I'd think the spec would be published somewhere.

While I had not intended to measure this - in fact it never crossed my mind (ever), now I continue to mull it over... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[sdoolin]

Adjustable pushrod finally complete. It isn't pretty, but I believe it will work. Used a scrap piece of chromoly tubing with same OD as pushrods from T IV Store (Manton), squared up the ends on the lathe, welded in a nut on one side and a bolt on the other and off we go. Happily the ball ends are the _exact_ same ones that will go in the finished engine and my reading indicates that to be important.



So in the picture we have all of the stuff I had to fabricate for this build (so far). The adjustable pushrod, the deck height measuring apparatus, and the much maligned fixture to deck the jugs. I put a high polish on the jug fixture since I am the only guy in the world to ever have to go down this road and I figure it'll never get used again. But - it will live proudly on a shelf in my shop.

Don't tell my lovely wife about the white faced gauges please...

[Bulldog9]

Adjustable pushrod finally complete. It isn't pretty, but I believe it will work. Used a scrap piece of chromoly tubing with same OD as pushrods from T IV Store (Manton), squared up the ends on the lathe, welded in a nut on one side and a bolt on the other and off we go. Happily the ball ends are the _exact_ same ones that will go in the finished engine and my reading indicates that to be important.



So in the picture we have all of the stuff I had to fabricate for this build (so far). The adjustable pushrod, the deck height measuring apparatus, and the much maligned fixture to deck the heads. I put a high polish on the jug fixture since I am the only guy in the world to ever have to go down this road and I figure it'll never get used again. But - it will live proudly on a shelf in my shop.

Don't tell my lovely wife about the white faced gauges please...

What gauges? I'm eying that Whiskey Sour........ Or in my case Irish Mist/Drambuie & Lemon

Great looking shop and machining capability you have. Looking forward to seeing your project come together.

[sdoolin]

As the younger crowd says these days - "epic fail".



Maybe I need less valve spring for this operation?

I really (really) wish Type IV Store would sell me their re-engineered adjustable pushrod (from Manton) that uses the exact same ball ends that they supply with their pushrods (again from Manton). This item is "with Jake's engine builder" for evaluation currently. Hopefully he will bless it (soon) and I can move on...

[2mAn]

I cant help with your calculations but I can say Im quite amused with your attention to detail. Shold be a fun runner when you finish

[Java2570]

As the younger crowd says these days - "epic fail".



Maybe I need less valve spring for this operation?

I really (really) wish Type IV Store would sell me their re-engineered adjustable pushrod (from Manton) that uses the exact same ball ends that they supply with their pushrods (again from Manton). This item is "with Jake's engine builder" for evaluation currently. Hopefully he will bless it (soon) and I can move on...

I'm thinking I remember Len Hoffman saying that you should use the lighter valve springs to do the valve geometry measurements.....if your heads have the double springs. Since my RS+ heads just had the single spring, I didn't worry about it.
Perhaps Len will chime in here, or someone else with more knowledge than I!

[porschetub]

I cant help with your calculations but I can say Im quite amused with your attention to detail. Shold be a fun runner when you finish

Been following this one and what the OP is doing is a full blueprint motor,reason that Jake and others charge what they do,all about going past basic specs and doing it right,differance between average and top spec.

[stugray]

For my first iteration of checking my valve geometry I used some "surrogate" springs that I found at Ace that fit, but had far less strength than even my single spring setup.

If you cant solve your problem with the adjustable pushrod, I might consider loaning you mine.

[McMark]

I use full valve spring pressure. But I tapped the pushrod tube directly, so I'm using a thicker stud in between the rod halves.

[sdoolin]

Since the adjustable pushrod a manufactured was a failure, I thought I'd order one from Manton. Seemed easy enough, but you can see that what they sent me is not useful for a type IV build. This is becoming infuriating. I'll try aircooled.net next...

[sdoolin]

OK so I couldn't take it any longer and I thought I'd give this Manton adj. pushrod a shot. Can't really use the locking nut on it due to its location, but I think I got it to work. Pics of my setup, (and as is the norm now my pics are rotated by 914world to ensure confusion of reader)...



I used a piece of angle and drilled it to fit the rocker shaft studs. It is mounted very securely and the dial indicator is affixed to that. I ensured that the dial indicator returns to zero (the same zero) after turning the engine and even just from jiggling the engine stand. It is quite solid.

Some math (I'm not a math teacher but I did go to engineering school - but please feel free to double check my numbers if you are hugely bored):

Advertised cam lift = .435"
5% of advertised lift (.435 *.05) = .0218" (rounded to .022 below)
Max measured lift can be .435+.022 = .457"
Min measured lift can be .435-.022 = .413"

I managed to get a measured lift of 11.55mm = .454" after just a few adjustments to the pushrod. That number is very repeatable and is just under max measured lift value from above. So it seems I got this right?

This is all on the intake valve on #1.

With that measured lift, and with one spacer under the rocker shaft mounts (not measured yet), I get the following geometry at half measured lift (again pic rotated by 914world for some inane reason):



That geometry looks pretty good to me. I think I could get the adjuster only slightly better lined up with the valve, but I would lose some lift. A very - very small amount of lift.

Wondering if I should do this measurement and setup for all valves individually? Would love someone that has actually been down this road to chime in if possible.

[TheCabinetmaker]

I checked each one so I could measure for each rod and cut them to exact length individually.

[sdoolin]

I checked each one so I could measure for each rod and cut them to exact length individually.

I think I am going to do the same.