New 914 owner looking to Build HP, New owner of a 914, looking to get a parts list going for an engine build Options

[BimmermanJp]

Hi everyone! I'm proud to say that I will taking delivery of a good looking 914 this upcoming month and have been doing some research on getting more Hp out of the Type 4.
My 914 has a 1.7 so I'm looking to do a stroker to get around 150-180ish HP and I'd probably go with dual Carbs vs FI
I would love some advice on stroker kits/ cams and lifter suggestions to make this possible. I've seen Rabys kit, AA kits etc..., but I'm looking to do the build myself and send the case and heads to get machined. This would be my first engine build so I'm getting excited. I do have Shop experience working as a service tech.
Any tips and advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

[green914]

Looks like a nice car. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

[mrfourteen]

Nice one. 180hp? I'm sure the gang will chime in on that optimistic figure.

[BimmermanJp]

Thanks!

Well I'm shooting for around 150, but I know that going more would require a lot of work and $$$. And I'd like to stay within a budget

[JeffBowlsby]

Don't do that to that beautiful 914.

[Cairo94507]

Welcome to the madness. Seriously, before you commit to anything for a motor, read some of the engine build threads and do a lot of research.

Were it my 914, I would shoot for a 2056 build to provide a reasonable HP bump and still give you dependability and about 110-115 HP. I would also want to have FI and not carbs. It does not take a lot of HP to get these cars moving. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

[BimmermanJp]

Haha I need to!
There a background story to the car, it was my uncles who passed away young of cancer and wanted to give it to his son. His son is 14 now so I have a couple years to make it right.l before I give it back.

[BimmermanJp]

Why FI over Carbs? Retaining the stock FI for value?

[Tom_T]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png) JP

You don't say where in SoCal you're at, so here are some OC options & some out-of-state resources - then others can add in for LA, SD, IE, etc.

Talk to Ron at FAT Performsance in Orange OC, they've been building Type IV for race, Baja 500/1000 & street for decades, & he can give you a tour of his shop &

http://fatperformance.com/home/

http://fatperformance.com/home/?page_id=51

If you want to got further afield than SoCal.... or just for more info....

You can also contact McMark @ Original Customs - now back in Frostbite Falls (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
> see ads on the webpage top/bottom & as member vendor here

&/or Jake Raby - although I don't think he's building them anymore, but sells parts & kits -

http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/

http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/index.php/porsche-914

Note that FAT/Ron has been at this much longer than either of the above, Mark uses Raby Parts & IIRC is the only one still doing the Raby 2056 Kit builds, & IIRC Raby worked for FAT &/or one of their machine shops to learn the trade.

If you're further south, then Bill Brewster in South OC & AASE in Fullerton are also top notch shops for T4 & 914s - & aircooled Porsches in general.

http://brewsterporsche.com/

http://aasemotors.com/

I also know some 914 vintage racers & VeeDubbers who've used Der Buggy in Garden Grove to build their T4 race engines.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/der-buggy-shop-garden-grove

A thought (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

.... you may want to pull & prep for & long term store the original 1.7 complete with the D-Jet & related parts - if it's numbers matching the car, which looks to be in excellent & collectible condition, & buy a "solid" long block 2.0L GA motor to do the bore/stroke/carbed build you mention, since the crank area was already worked by Porsche to get to 2L in the first place. So the 2L can accept more cc's more easily.

Also consider Megasuirt or one of the other "modern" aftermarket EFI's out there instead of carbs - unless you just happen to enjoy re-jetting & balancing carbs etc. in your spare time! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

T4's can & have been built to 270 hp as far as I know, but that high is a short lived, hot running race engine - 150-180 is more realistic, but still may run a bit hotter & may not be great in traffic/DD/commuting.

Ron & the others can explain the trade-offs of it all to you, & builds them to all specs - as do the others. Raby's website has some good informative write-ups & HP/TQ charts on the various size kits/engines he sells/does/did as a good place to start reading up.

PS - another option is to put Euro heads on a 2.0 GA (73-74 engine) & tweak the D-jet & MPS etc. to take the stock Euro from 100 HP to a bit more TBD by bench testing. Porsche was notoriously conservative in rating their engines, so they more often than not turned out more HP than advertised - smog control BS on the CA market cars aside, & the GA in USA/CA or Euro flavor was no exception, as would be some conservative builds. IIRC the 2056 with D-jet can go as high as 125 HP IIRC.

PSS - Also heed what Jeff & I are saying about saving the car - especially now that I read that you're caretaking the car for your nephew, since even the lowly 1.7's will eventually be worth top dollar in the future in really nice unmolested shape, ergo save the engine if it's the original & mess with another, then the original can always be swapped back - if you don't hack or do mods that can't be undone easily.

Good Luck! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

[colingreene]

building a big power hot rod and "first build' are generally not condusive.

[Coondog]

Nice looking 914. I would suggest you drive it for at least a year. This will give you time to fix all the unknowns and upgrade all the little things. You will be much happier with a car that looks and drives like new. This will also give you time to sort out your future needs for more HP.

If all that sounds like BS to you then take it to Fat performance in Orange. Lot to be said for a turn key motor.

[BimmermanJp]

I'm in Ventura County!
Thanks for all the resources and info. I've been to a few of those sites but I'll dig deeper .
I'm looking forward to speaking with some of these guys to help me better understand the needs of this platform

I'd consider the mega squirt system and buying a 2.0 longblock. Might be a little more $$ than I'd like to spend but you're right about keeping it #'s matching

Thanks for the info tom!

[BimmermanJp]

Ha well a good friend builds type 1 engines so he'd be helping me through the actual build.
And in terms of fixing the unknowns I'm already buying replacement parts...At least suspension, brake upgrades

[r_towle]

Contact European motor Werks in California.
EMW for short.

They have the parts you want.
They have good advice.
They have a machine shop.

DRD makes the crankshafts.

type4store (Len Hoffman) heads are the only way you can get that kind of decent HP

Tangering racing (chris foley) for the tuned header which you will need if you want to make decent HP.

A common stroked setup makes a 2270, a motor Jake really likes.
A common big bore is using the 71 mm crank and 103 Pistons and cylinders.

You can also buy a built motor from FAT performance and others....no personal experience with that.

Elgin Camshafts, buy camshaft, gear and lifters from the same source, and go with a professional camshaft shop like Elgin to get a quality part.....versus a reseller of other people's Camshafts...Elgin will take care of you.
There are others as well that do a great job.

You will want a carbbed camshaft to produce the power you are seeking.
You need to make sure the heads breath and flow properly (Len)
His heads are tested, then replicated using CNc, so they are a lot more consistent then manually porting a head.

Ignition will be another thing you will want to upgrade to see that kind of performance.
Multi spark is a good choice and McMark (here) makes a trigger wheel setup that fits on the stock engine with stock cooling tin.

You will need a front mounted oil cooler, lots of good thread here on various setups for that.

There is a racing forum here that may have more information on the hot setups for Camshafts, timing, ignition, heads, headers etc.

Lastly, I would suggest you hunt down a core case and start with that.
Pull your stock motor and pickle it on the shelf. It may be valuable to the next buyer of your car.

Rich

[Cairo94507]

I just believe that FI is maintenance free once it is dialed in. Carbs seem to always be a problem.

[BimmermanJp]

I'll contact EMW this week.
I've read a little about the 2270 setup.

Thanks for the wealth of information
I'll get started this week on calling for info and parts

[BimmermanJp]

if I wanted FI could I get that power? And I'm guessing I couldn't use carbbed cams

[r_towle]

I just believe that FI is maintenance free once it is dialed in. Carbs seem to always be a problem.

If you think about it, what really goes wrong is fuel contamination issues.
So Jets may need cleaning, which is a quick thing to do.
Stale fuel can be solved with stabile.

Properly setup with Chris Foleys cable linkage, you never need to adjust those again.

Good fuel management is what really matters now with carbs.
Before foley built his linkage there was always synchronization issues on the carbs, that is now a thing of the past.

Properly rebuilt carbs are fine.


Certainly and aftermarket dual throttle bodied EFI and ignition system will be the best way to go.

For the OP, a 71mm*103mm motor can run from Djet or Ljet and produce 150 HP
It's has been done at least twice that I know of, on a dyno.
Both motors still run like tops. Though one is going to get a more aggressive carbbed camshaft now to see what more HP can be obtained, just for fun.

[Tom_T]

And in terms of fixing the unknowns I'm already buying replacement parts...At least suspension, brake upgrades

Yes JP - think of the 914 as more of a go-cart -- than a new car to be bench raced on the numbers.

These cars were made for fun on the twisties - not flat out 0-60 numbers. So do tale it out on some of the fun roads up by you to get a good feel for it first.

You may find at its age & miles that new suspension bushings, some classic Koni Red or Bilstein shocks & struts, good period correct & size tires will do more for the fun factor, than will hp.

If it's a 72, then that's about the best 1.7 of the brood for power & the tail-shifter being tweaked to shift better + interior & other improvements.

Also, if you do a 2L transplant, then get a rebuilt (& possibly re-geared?) side-shifter 901 trans from another 73-76 914 to fix the tail-shifter woes/slack (or convert another not the original tailshifter to side shift - kits out there to do it).

A common 1.7L build is to 1911cc, but again - if it's the original, then it may be best to save it. If not OE, then all bets are off, & maybe you do build it - but check first.

So spend the $ to get a COA from Porsche/PCNA (see the Porsche website - Classic section for the info & 800 number) to verify if the engine case # is OE & as some validation for the car. Joining PCA will get something like $20 off the COA price, plus connect you to other Porsche owners of all types - including 914ers - & there are several up in your area "north of LA mess".

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

[SirAndy]

McMark has a turbo on his 1.7L, rumor has it it drives quite nicely ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)