Optimusglen's build off challenge, 6-cylinders of goodness. Ready for my next cross-country trip. |
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Optimusglen's build off challenge, 6-cylinders of goodness. Ready for my next cross-country trip. |
ConeDodger |
Aug 9 2016, 08:27 AM
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#121
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Apex killer! Group: Members Posts: 23,543 Joined: 31-December 04 From: Tahoe Area Member No.: 3,380 Region Association: Northern California |
Radio delete panel complete . (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/c2.staticflickr.com-19709-1461521472.1.jpg) Growing up in Minnesota and being a Met Council of Sports Car Club member, one thing I remember is that there were some rally FREAKS in SCCA. You show up with those sexy stop watches and you're going to make some friends pretty quickly... |
Optimusglen |
Aug 11 2016, 07:31 PM
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#122
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 901 Joined: 26-February 16 From: Minneapolis Member No.: 19,709 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Two done, two to go.
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/c2.staticflickr.com-19709-1470965470.1.jpg) |
Optimusglen |
Aug 28 2016, 02:09 PM
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#123
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 901 Joined: 26-February 16 From: Minneapolis Member No.: 19,709 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
All 4 wheels are now finished. Waiting on me to install the 5-lug swap and change the tires over.
More cleaning (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/c1.staticflickr.com-19709-1472414961.1.jpg) Pulled the oil pump. Looks good and no contact between the cam rivets and pump. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/c1.staticflickr.com-19709-1472414962.2.jpg) Camshaft, wish I could tell what is is. I was told it was swapped out with the carb install, but based on other things below it is possible that's not the case. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/c1.staticflickr.com-19709-1472414962.3.jpg) Now for the biggest part. I tore down one of the heads and started cleaning. Put a ton of elbow grease into it. There were some marks where something bad had happened in one of the combustion chambers, but I thought that since it had been running in this state, I would just clean, reassemble, and go from there. The pic makes them look worse than they are, they're just filled with carbon still. (Bottom head in the pic below) Then I put it all back together and started in on the second head. I spent a good 3 minutes just pulling the valves out and a light scraping and found that the passenger side head was in far worse shape. One combustion chamber looks like a 14 year old boys face, huge gouges, something was bangin around in there something fierce! Strange part is that for both heads, the damage is on the cyl closest to the trans. Wonder what caused this... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/c1.staticflickr.com-19709-1472414962.4.jpg) At any rate, I wasn't going to put a ton of time into cleaning this one up, looks toasted. So I messaged the local 914 guy that I've picked up a bunch of parts from and turned out that he had exactly what I need. Drove down to his place and picked these up. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/c1.staticflickr.com-19709-1472414962.5.jpg) New heads are super clean. He was unsure of the exact history, but he had gone through it and it looks like everything was done to them. There is one exhaust stud hole that I will need to fix some threads on, but otherwise they're cherry. I'll probably pull the valves and inspect it all to be on the safe side but these are great. Further inspection of what I have shows that I have the stock crank (66mm stroke) and that paired with the 96mm pistons means the engine is actually a 1.9 and not a 2.0. This is also what makes me fear that the factory cam is still in there... Follow my line of thought... At some point in the cars history there was some sort of catastrophic event that caused the head damage. The event also caused significant piston and cylinder damage. The owner probably brought it to a shop and they swapped the 96mm pistons and cylinders in. The 1.7 heads still have 100mm registers for the cylinders, so they got the 96mm cylinder necked-down kits that were used back then that meant not having to machine the 1.7 heads for larger cylinders. They must have been on a budget. That's why they may not have swapped the cam. Either that or they dumped all their money in the cam, carbs, P's and C's and didn't have enough for new heads, or headwork... Who knows. If they were really on a budget I feel like they would have just done a stock set of P's and C's. For the cam, I cam probably measure the lift, may not be able to get an accurate duration measurement with the cam still in there. So next on the project list: -pull valves on new heads and inspect and fix exhaust stud -reassemble new heads -clean up block some more -pull a rod and inspect bearing surfaces -clean some more Also, I'm going to try and duplicate the engine lift plate shown in the factory manuals. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/c1.staticflickr.com-19709-1472414962.6.jpg) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/c1.staticflickr.com-19709-1472414963.7.jpg) I am aware that Tangerine sells something similar for just north of $100, but I like the idea of fabbing one myself. I'll probably take measurements off the block for the important parts, just wish someone I knew had one of the actual VW tools. |
porschetub |
Aug 28 2016, 07:39 PM
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#124
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,695 Joined: 25-July 15 From: New Zealand Member No.: 18,995 Region Association: None |
Glenn that damage in the head was most likely caused by a broken piston ring @ some stage.
Those replacement heads look clean but ask the seller if the exhaust valves are new or used,IMO put down some cash on new ones if not you will be walking on thin ice .good luck (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif) |
Optimusglen |
Aug 29 2016, 07:29 AM
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#125
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 901 Joined: 26-February 16 From: Minneapolis Member No.: 19,709 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Glenn that damage in the head was most likely caused by a broken piston ring @ some stage. Those replacement heads look clean but ask the seller if the exhaust valves are new or used,IMO put down some cash on new ones if not you will be walking on thin ice .good luck (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif) Is there something inheretly wrong with exhaust valves on these engines? I had heard bad things about failing valve seats, but this is the first I've heard of valves having issues. Care to elaborate? I did figure that it was either piston ring bits, or maybe an exploded plug. I just can't figure out why it would happen to both of the cylinders on that end of the engine. The carbs are ready to roll. New filters arrive today. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/c1.staticflickr.com-19709-1472477389.1.jpg) And I picked up a set of Hella fogs with stone guards. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/c1.staticflickr.com-19709-1472477389.2.jpg) I like the road rally style. I'll use regular horn grills and fab a bracket that comes out to mount the fogs. Easilly reversable if/when I decide not to run them anymore. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/safetystance.files.wordpress.com-19709-1472477389.3.jpg) |
914time |
Aug 29 2016, 08:07 AM
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#126
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Member Group: Members Posts: 68 Joined: 7-August 14 From: St. Paul, Minnesota Member No.: 17,750 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Great work, Glenn. I appreciate your regular updates!
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Optimusglen |
Aug 29 2016, 08:19 AM
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#127
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 901 Joined: 26-February 16 From: Minneapolis Member No.: 19,709 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Thanks!
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mbseto |
Aug 29 2016, 09:38 AM
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#128
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,253 Joined: 6-August 14 From: Cincy Member No.: 17,743 Region Association: North East States |
Always good to make sure the carbs have a full charge before you put them in...
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wndsrfr |
Aug 29 2016, 11:05 AM
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#129
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,427 Joined: 30-April 09 From: Rescue, Virginia Member No.: 10,318 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Always good to make sure the carbs have a full charge before you put them in... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) |
Optimusglen |
Aug 31 2016, 08:37 AM
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#130
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 901 Joined: 26-February 16 From: Minneapolis Member No.: 19,709 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Lookin pretty good!
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/c1.staticflickr.com-19709-1472654241.1.jpg) Last night I pulled the heads apart to inspect. If these were run at all, they were cleaned up really well after. I did a quick lap of the valves and reassembled. Lapped the cylinders into the heads too. All the heads need now is for one of the exhaust studs to be repaired. Will probably do a stepped stud. I looked the exhaust valves over, based on your comments. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/c1.staticflickr.com-19709-1472654468.1.jpg) stamped with "T-TRW 3908" P.O. didn't remeber their history, so if anyone here can shed some light on if these are stock or not, I'd appreciate it. Tonight I might hone the cylinders and then scrub them down. Getting close to reassembly! |
Claus Graf |
Aug 31 2016, 08:35 PM
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#131
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Member Group: Members Posts: 51 Joined: 25-November 14 From: Houston, TX Member No.: 18,154 Region Association: None |
Great job! Save the Porsche!
Sincerely Claus Graf |
barefoot |
Sep 1 2016, 04:58 AM
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#132
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,264 Joined: 19-March 13 From: Charleston SC Member No.: 15,673 Region Association: South East States |
[quote name='Optimusglen' date='Aug 29 2016, 09:29 AM' post='2391588']
[quote name='porschetub' post='2391409' date='Aug 28 2016, 08:39 PM'] Glenn that damage in the head was most likely caused by a broken piston ring @ some stage. Those replacement heads look clean but ask the seller if the exhaust valves are new or used,IMO put down some cash on new ones if not you will be walking on thin ice .good luck (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif) [/quote] Is there something inheretly wrong with exhaust valves on these engines? I had heard bad things about failing valve seats, but this is the first I've heard of valves having issues. Care to elaborate? I did figure that it was either piston ring bits, or maybe an exploded plug. I just can't figure out why it would happen to both of the cylinders on that end of the engine. Not sure if all years used sodium filled exhaust valves, but my 2L had them. When I was getting ready to dis-assemble the valves, zI gave a light rap to the stems with a brass hammer to check to see if any valves were stuck, one did this: NEVER NEVER re-use 40 year old sodium filled exhaust valves ! |
Optimusglen |
Sep 1 2016, 07:27 AM
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#133
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 901 Joined: 26-February 16 From: Minneapolis Member No.: 19,709 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Ah, yeah that looks bad!
The exhaust valves in the new heads looked to be brand new, and I don't believe they are original valves because of the TRW stamping (unless TRW supplied OEMs back then) So I will run what I have. |
porschetub |
Sep 2 2016, 02:00 AM
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#134
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,695 Joined: 25-July 15 From: New Zealand Member No.: 18,995 Region Association: None |
Ah, yeah that looks bad! The exhaust valves in the new heads looked to be brand new, and I don't believe they are original valves because of the TRW stamping (unless TRW supplied OEMs back then) So I will run what I have. TRW are replacements, great I like them,fairly unlikely you will have original sodium ones. Valve guide wear has a lot to do with exhaust valve breakage in VW engines,if the guide is badly worn there is poor heat transfer into the head casting ,the heat stays in the valve and repeat excessive heat cycling causes it to break. The seats come loose as a result of the above issues and overheating that's why many won't rebuilt old heads anymore. My machine shop won't touch them anymore but they still do type 1 heads,they don't do welding on any of them after having issues. Over the years (many of them) I have seen my share of exhaust valve and seat issues with the type 4's. |
Optimusglen |
Sep 2 2016, 05:41 AM
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#135
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 901 Joined: 26-February 16 From: Minneapolis Member No.: 19,709 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Ah, yeah that looks bad! The exhaust valves in the new heads looked to be brand new, and I don't believe they are original valves because of the TRW stamping (unless TRW supplied OEMs back then) So I will run what I have. TRW are replacements, great I like them,fairly unlikely you will have original sodium ones. Valve guide wear has a lot to do with exhaust valve breakage in VW engines,if the guide is badly worn there is poor heat transfer into the head casting ,the heat stays in the valve and repeat excessive heat cycling causes it to break. The seats come loose as a result of the above issues and overheating that's why many won't rebuilt old heads anymore. My machine shop won't touch them anymore but they still do type 1 heads,they don't do welding on any of them after having issues. Over the years (many of them) I have seen my share of exhaust valve and seat issues with the type 4's. Great info! The valve guides in the new heads are all awesome, no slop but still allow the free movement of the valves. Last night i honed the cyclinders. Plateau hone with 260 and then finished with 600 and an intense cleaning. Then i gapped all the rings for their specific cylinders and installed them on the pistons. Piston grooves are well within spec as well. This thing is shaping up pretty well. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/c1.staticflickr.com-19709-1472823165.1.jpg) |
Optimusglen |
Sep 3 2016, 06:04 PM
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#136
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 901 Joined: 26-February 16 From: Minneapolis Member No.: 19,709 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
More work today. Waiting on stuff for the engine so I started on getting the 5 lug hubs swapped in. First, I needed to put it in the air. 2 feet of air. It's no lift, but these jackstands are awesome.
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/c1.staticflickr.com-19709-1472947451.1.jpg) Started on the rear. Pulled the control arm and everything related to it. Greased a new wheel bearing and installed, new bushings of course, and put it all back together. Test fit one of my new wheels then called up my tire guy to set up a day next week to swap my tires to the new wheels. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/c1.staticflickr.com-19709-1472947451.2.jpg) |
Optimusglen |
Sep 8 2016, 07:31 AM
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#137
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 901 Joined: 26-February 16 From: Minneapolis Member No.: 19,709 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Got the tires swapped over.
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/c1.staticflickr.com-19709-1473341470.1.jpg) Tires are the same size front/rear. Probably the widest tire I can fit in the rear, as it sits I will need to roll the inner fender lip out back. Since the wheels are staggered, the rears have a slight stretch. Overall I don't think it detracts from the looks noticably, and performance differences are negligable, so they'll work. If I was buying new tires for these I would probably do staggered sizes, but alas, that's not in the cards right now. |
Optimusglen |
Sep 9 2016, 07:43 AM
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#138
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 901 Joined: 26-February 16 From: Minneapolis Member No.: 19,709 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
More progress last night. No pictures, but i fixed the exhaust stud. Drilled and threaded it up to 10mm then used a stepped stud.
Then I started in on swapping one of the front rotors, quickly discovered that the new 5 lug rotors were made from the late model 914 so I cannot use them. Well, I can use them enough to get this picture, but thats it. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/c1.staticflickr.com-19709-1473428617.1.jpg) Difference is offset. To use these rotors I need late 914 spindles, calipers, ball joint, and I believe control arms. So now I'll be looking into getting my old rotors drilled. Next I will be measuring deck height and figuring out which spacers I will need under the cylinders. |
gms |
Sep 9 2016, 09:11 AM
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#139
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,692 Joined: 12-March 04 From: Chicagoland Member No.: 1,785 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
The car is coming along nicely!
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Optimusglen |
Sep 9 2016, 09:19 AM
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#140
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 901 Joined: 26-February 16 From: Minneapolis Member No.: 19,709 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
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