Tangerine Racing in the house!, Chris arrived at 1Am..... Options

[ChrisFoley]

First of all let me say that there was nothing wrong with this engine. We were totally thorough with our procedures and didn't let any schedule pressures dictate our decisions. All through this we have had options. When one plan didn't come together we switched to the next.
Jake and Len's work is absolutely top notch and I have the utmost respect for their commitment to my program.
After dynoing the engine we made the decision this engine was ready to race and it definitely was.
Sure Pete and I stayed up late to finish the install, but we work incredibly well together when it matters.
What bit us was something that none of us considered ahead of time. The car had old race gas in it that was supposed to have been burned the day before in the old engine where it wouldn't have created any issues.
The gas had lost some octane and the engine ran a little lean from the elevation change. If I had the same CHT setup as Jake prefers I might have noticed the heat near the plug and stopped the engine before the detonation burned through the head at the thinnest spot, right next to the spark plug.
We have to regroup now, but this experience will make us stronger for the rest of the season, rest assured.

[Thorshammer]

Chris,

Bad luck, better luck next time, Summit National???

Erik

[grantsfo]

Bummer ...Maybe more reliability and less power is the way to go? Youre expecting alot from a type 4 once you get over 175 HP. As you learned it didnt take much to fry it. But I'm still holding hope out for ya all.

[Bleyseng]

"Remember, sleep is a weapon" Jason Bourne

Sounds like human error of somekind but live and learn...

Good work all around guys!

Geoff

[Brett W]

Chris, Jake, Pete, and Len,

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. I got Scott's message late tonight when I got in from the shop. I left messages on both of your cells, my offer still stands so if you need help call me and I will head that way. I think I am going to stay at the shop and do some more work on my car since the weather is headed down hill and seems as though you guys got it under control. Good luck at Summit.

To bad I didn't get to meet you guys.

[ChrisFoley]

Thanks for the support guys, and special thanks to John, Scott and Greg for stopping by.
I'm well on the way to having the old engine back in, while Pete gets his beauty sleep.
I won't be as fast but in the rain I'll do just fine.
As far as going with less power for more reliability, I already have one of those. We're trying to make our way to the front of the pack and the new engine will put us pretty close. I just have to control more parameters more tightly, and learn to trust my experts. As the three of us (Chris, Jake, Len) get more comfortable with working to each others' strengths I am confident the Tangerine Racing team with Aircooled Technology and Hoffman Automotive Machine support will make big waves in F Production. Len's heads are a thing to behold, Jake's engine building and dyno expertise is truly impressive, and the new Tangerine Evo Header was a key factor in surpassing our 175 hp goal. (We actually hit that on the first pull to 7000 rpm on the dyno.)
I was near tears for a while this afternoon, as I am sure both Len and Jake were too. In fact Jake had it out (verbally) with a smart aleck neighbor in the paddock. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/chair.gif)
Unfortunately Len is the one who will have to do the hardest work as the heads took the big hit this time.
If racing was easy though, we wouldn't bother doing it. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif)
Now it's back to work...

[redshift]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sad.gif)

I am saddened by this news! I just want everything to work out for my buddies.. You guys put alot of prep work into racing, I mean, hey, it's why you do-what you do.

The best team wins, but they rarely win the first time out.. sorry man..


M

[redshift]

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Mar 26 2005, 08:08 PM)

-good stuff-

WTG Jake, your enthusiasm alone could take Chris to a championship, in any class.

It's all about the team, you guys have it..


M

[URY914]

Jake and Chris,
I've met both of you guys seperately and I'm really looking forward to seeing you two do well. The knowledge you two bring to the track has to produce a winner. You'll have a lot of support from the members here and we all will be following the progress.

I ONLY WISH I WAS THERE! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/clap.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/pray.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beerchug.gif)

Paul

[Rleog]

I, with many others, am following this thread with a lot of interest. Encouragement is about all I can offer, and a hope that you guys can overcome the problems. You're living the adventure that most of us, for various reasons, can only dream about.

Keep us up on the thread, as you have been doing. Hopefully, there will be more video to view in Bolton sometime ahead.

Good luck.

[Jake Raby]

The weather is looking a tad better here at the house, so Beth and I are going to head down to catch the race after all.

After Chris told me about the fuel situation it made me feel a bit better knowing that there wasn't anything "wrong" with our engine.... With that kind of CR and power, bad fuel is absolutely dreadful...

It doesn't break my spirits at all. It doesn't make me happy either and actually it is pretty embarassing, but every hurdle makes us stronger...

This program will get even better and we'll make more reliable power... Now that I have seen the power potential that this regular season has we may take a bit of the CR away (not such tight deck) to still make our 175 HP.... and do so for the rest of the season. With such high CR if it ever leans out or has 1/2 of a chance to torch something it will... This engine was one of the few beats that I have built that made MORE power than I anticipated on the first try so we can detune, still make the power and do so more reliably to last the whole season.

The runoffs beast will have even more CR than this engine had and even a nastier cam- It only has to live 2 hours.....

[edgetoo]

Hi gang,

Hope you did well Sunday

You folks did it with much more class than I did. I flamed a head some years ago on a dyno. (Makes for some neet flame & sparks!) My cause was simpler. Old heads cut too close to the plugs with cracks and helicoils.

(I have Blake's chassis and (later) his motor) On the first outing with his motor back in the car, I apparently fouled up the oiling and expired the bearings in 3 laps-- but what a great 3 laps!)

Hopefully we will have it all together again for NHIS THANKS TO HELP from Jake, Chris, & ALL the rest.

Good luck at summit Pt

Ed Givler 08 FP 914-4

[Jake Raby]

Chris finished the race but hit the track in the back of the pack with no practice time with a new shifter to boot...

He did pretty well in the rain the last few laps of the race.

We tore down the new engine and found the issue. It was definately the fuel that caused the problems and Len is already repairing the heads. It melted one of the Nickies, but thats repairable with a Tig and some machining time and some re-plating...

This engine had MUCHO potential. Chris is going to have to update the way he does some things with the car and it's set up for our work to be effective.

If your race gas is over a month old. Don't run it! (I had no idea the fuel was 7 months old)

We decided not to detune the engine, we are going to make Chris adapt himself and the car to our environment- Else we are not benefitting from the vehicle being at the track at all.

Its all about pushing the limits. You can't push the limits when you detune to make the engine match the environment.

The runoffs engine will be even more scary than this one so Chris has to get used to working with a volatile beast.

[jd74914]

QUOTE (Racer Chris @ Mar 26 2005, 07:56 PM)

We have to regroup now, but this experience will make us stronger for the rest of the season, rest assured.

Just read this board for the first time since Friday.

That sucks, but I always have been told that you can't grow better without adversity. I'm sure you guys can resolve any problems. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

Its great to hear that Chris ran well for the first laps in the rain today without much experience on this track.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif)

[Jake Raby]

Yes I agree.. This engine is unlike anything Chris has had at his disposal yet and it takes getting used to.

[jd74914]

You know, I have seen and heard the old engine in person, and thought it was really cool, but this beast definately beats it Jake (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif) I can't wait to see it in person.

[Jake Raby]

Beats it by more than 40 HP!

[jd74914]

I'm just amazed. Thats alot of power from a 1.8 (a huge amount more than mine will ever have).

[Jake Raby]

Its all in the combo!

And thats with STOCK size valves and tiny 40mm carbs...

Len and I are now confident that with Chris switching to my DTM that we can get 200 HP from this engine combination within a year. I only did 4 dyno runs with it, give me another day on the dyno and I probably could have gotten another 6-8 HP from tuning alone.

Kevin Groot is the one that will have a bad ass power plant. He is running direct fire and a lot of other tricks and has a 2.0 to play with. I know we can get more than 210 from it now- More than confident!

[HotRod]

Chris, you gonna be at Summit this weekend...if so, I'll see ya there.