OT: wanna be Machinist ... Where to start?, and what equipment to look for? Options

[cha914]

Hey all,

So I would like to get into doing my own machine work, but don't really know where to start. About three years ago I started welding, and now have a pretty decent welding setup (mig, tig, bender, plasma, bandsaw, drill press, grinders, etc...) but as I progress to more and different projects I am finding that being able to do some machining would be real handy, and I get green with envy every time Muller and others start posting their creations...

So, I really want to know where to start...it doesn't seem that the local schools offer a course (would like to find something where I could get some hands on experience). Can you suggest any good intro books and/or websites/forums/etc...

Just from some preliminary reading it seems like a smaller lathe would be a good place to start, or would you suggest different? If I am on the right track, what would you suggest to start looking for? Most of my projects are car related, so I won't need a huge lathe, but something that should be able to handle brake and suspension components. And of course being a 914 guy, it has to be cheap (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/tongue.gif) Seriously, I would like to spend around 500 to get started, but could probably go to a grand if I found something I couldn't do without. Not really in a rush, so I can look around for those old guys who are selling their hobby stuff, or auction stuff, but don't really know what to look for yet.

Any and all help/advice appreciated, you guys are a great resource...

Tony

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/welder.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sawzall-smiley.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smash.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/type.gif)

[Joseph Mills]

Hi Tony,


How's the Massive 4 running?

Craig Mitchell (Cametal), is a machinist and could be of help. You met him at MUSR6. He was driving the brown primered 914-6 conversion. He will be on the TALIMENA 1 tour. I will alert him to your ambitions.

I'm sure many on this board will have great support/tips for you.

Let me know when you're ready to make me something cool. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[TimT]

I got a lathe about 10 years ago, I happened on a garage sale and the poeple were selling among aother things a really old Craftsman (South Bend or Atlas) metal lathe with all sorts of accesories.. The lathe had been the fathers and had sat unused for many years after his passing.

I bought the whole lot for $100 I think.. came with manuals, how to books etc. So I taught myself the basics

I want to buy a mill now but dont have room for a Bridgeport, so will put this idea on hold..

Ebay is your friend now, they have tons of used lathes/mills etc for sale...and all the documentation and handbooks

go to Ebay and type lathe, or Bridgeport into the search field, and be prepared to wade through dozens of pages....

[scotty b]

Check with your local tech schools or community colleges. When I went back a few years ago to get my welding certification,I found that part of that was taking the machining classes. We have a guy here locally that buys out tech schools,companies etc old equipment regularly and gets 1500.00 for larger size bridgport mills and lathes. Only problem is they are almost always 3 phase (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/headbang.gif) You might want to look for someone like that in your local

[cha914]

Joseph,

Things are going well, but there is always something left to do...I think it might be CV joint time though...ugh...and those rear bushings again, so ...you know how it goes...

I remember Craig and his 6...I do remember him having some trick parts on there so it doesn't supprise me to hear he is a machinist...I would love to hear what he had to say.

Tim,

I have been shoping ebay a little bit, and found a few deals, but I think shipping would end up being the problem, and I really want to know what I want first...as I really don't even know what the different sizes of lathes really mean and what I should expect from one model over another. I am hoping I can fall into a deal like yours, I just have to start keeping my eye out.

Scotty,

The local community college doesn't offer a machining class, I wish they did, but I havn't checked with all the tech schools yet, and will try there next. I think a coworker goes to those auctions pretty often, so I need to get details from him about how often those happen.

Keep em coming (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/tongue.gif)

Tony

[Verruckt]

I would definitely look into some classes. Lathes and mills are some dangerous machines if you don't know what you're doing.

If it were me, I would get a mill first. You have SOOO much more flexibility with a mill. I don't know how big the parts are you intend to make, but you might check out some of the smaller mills out there. I have seen some for $399 with a decent capacity for home/hobby stuff. At least that way you aren't out the 2grand or so for a decent bridgeport. All of those chinese mini machines are not going to be as good as a bridgeport, but you should still be able to hold within 3 thousandths. Let me know if you have any specific questions, I used to be a tool and die maker before I had my "career change" (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/tongue.gif)

[riverman]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif)

Start out with a mill - you can do alot more. Or, why not jump ahead of the curve and get a CNC? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

[MattR]

I wouldnt call myself a "machinst" but I know my way around a machine shop. It all started for me by wanting to make stuff. I was 12 years old and I had "ideas". My dad told me to draft them, then I turned, milled, sawed, and drilled. It helped that I have a machine shop in my garage... Now I'm onto CNC. My dad got a table top CNC machine when I was about 16 and Ive been programming since. Now I can use full size with no sweat. Its just a matter of needing stuff to get done, in my opinion. Material is cheap, just get in there and do it!

[MattR]

QUOTE (riverman @ Apr 7 2005, 07:10 PM)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif) Start out with a mill - you can do alot more. Or, why not jump ahead of the curve and get a CNC? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

In my opinion you're not jumping ahead of any curve on CNC. You're still operating under the same parameters with a CNC mill or lathe as a manual one, but you have motors to do the precise work. I know a few people in school that have learned CNC just on a computer screen and they couldnt write a full CNC program because they dont know how to use a mill. I know a LITTLE BIT about manual milling and it helps immensly with my CNC.

[jandro62]

UT Engineering has a machine shop, but its restricted access - and I think I know a couple of ME's who would be happy to make an extra buck or two machining parts if you need them. Having started machining myself less than a year ago - A mill will get you further. I don't think ACC offers any machining courses, unfortunately.

in addition to the mill itself
good set of end mills (drill bits basically), collets, edge finder, and boring bar will get you going.
Oh, and if you want to be fancy a nice set of digital calipers, although the mechanical ones do just fine.
and a corner of your shop that is easy to sweep up all the metal scraps.

[scotty914]

i would beg to differ you can do more with a lathe, you can mill with a lathe, but you cannot turn iwth a mill

to mill with a lathe you put the bit in the chuck, and put a vice on the tail stock or the tool holder/ clamp . but once again you cannot turn with a mill

[airsix]

The problem with buying machine equipment online is getting it shipped. Case in point - I want a surface grinder. I want one real bad. There are some very decent manual grinders going on ebay for $500-$1,000. Problem is shipping. Most would cost $1,000 to $2,000 to ship. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sad.gif)

If you don't like what you see on ebay take a look at HGR Industrial Surplus. Good prices and quite a wide selection. If you don't see what you like check back in a week - they have a lot of inventory turnover.

Your best deals will probably be found locally because it will be cheaper to get pieces to your shop. My problem is living in a small community - there are no local sources for used machine equipment, but I bet you've got a lot more resources around a big place like Austin.

I'm not a real machinist - I just play one in my garage. I've got a mini-mill, a 7"x14" lathe, a 2"x72" belt grinder (self made), and a band-saw. Next purchase will be a bench-top surface grinder. At that point I'll have all the essentials I need to do most small-scale stuff. Maybe some day down the road I'll move up to the big equipment once I know what I'm doing.

-Ben M.

[Verruckt]

QUOTE (scott thacher @ Apr 7 2005, 09:44 PM)

i would beg to differ you can do more with a lathe, you can mill with a lathe, but you cannot turn iwth a mill to mill with a lathe you put the bit in the chuck, and put a vice on the tail stock or the tool holder/ clamp . but once again you cannot turn with a mill

An experienced person could get quite creative with a lathe yes. But if this person were mostly inexperienced? Not to mention that even for an experienced person, milling on a lathe is a bitch compared to just doing it on a mill. There is a reason god invented round stock (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

[airsix]

Oh, I almost forgot...

Go HERE for a copy of the US Army Fundamentals of Machine Tools manual in a series of pdf files. Undoubtably the best FREE reference matterial on the subject.

-Ben M.

[Jake Raby]

Coming from one that never took a single machining class keep in mind that a lot of what you learn with machining is done with trial and error..

I was lucky enough to have my own lathe at age 14 and mill by 16...

You do need some basic classes or research done on your own to learn the math and etc else it takes years to do it yourself.....

I Built an entire cylinder head on two different mills without a day of formal machine shop teachin......... I goofed up 32 times at last count and thank god I have a Tig and some skills to fix the goofs..

Seriously consider the classes to teach you about the math and different tooling and when to use what cutters and speeds and etc....

Keep in mind that many of these machines work from 3 phase power and most non industrial areas won't have it available, and even if it is I doubt your house / shop will be prewired for it..

If not you can build a 220V phase converter with a large electric motor, some capacitors and etc to create your own 3 phase current..... I have plans from mine it's big enough to run my entire machine shop at once because 3 phase is not available here...

[Mueller]

I have no formal machine shop training, it's been trial and error....

a good read is:

Tabletop Machining

There are also monthly mags. dedicated to the home shop guy:
Home Shop Machinist and the Machinist's Workshop

Lots of newbie projects as well as more difficult projects.

Even thou I have a CNC mill, I like the pleasure of make'n chips with my manual lathe and benchtop mill.

You can even make your own DRO for the mills and lathes if you really get into the hobby.

[BatFromHell]

Tony:
Sounds like you have a good start and some excellent advice above.
But if you are looking for something that is cost effective and can machine fairly large parts (brake rotors, flywheels and clutches), you may want to look at a Smithy machine. This unit combines a drill press, lathe and milling machine all-in-one for about the cost of a medium priced milling machine. This is an American made product from a company in Ann Arbor, MI. Below is info:

Smithy Co.
170 Aprill Drive P.O. Box 1517
Ann Arbor, MI 48106-1517
USA

Phone: 1-800-476-4849
Mon-Fri 8:00 to 5:00 eastern

www.smithy.com
You can order a catalog on-line.

At minimum you will need a machine with at least 1HP and preferrably runs on 220V. Make sure mill head is R8 to minimize chatter. Do not buy a machine that has a Jacobson chuck (keyed chuck) for the mill head, most import machines will have these.
Another source for excellent machining reference material is
www.engineering.com
Good Luck
BatFromHell

[PatW]

No mention about the Machinists Handbook?. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) Its got me in & out of trouble many times over the past few years. It's deep reading can put me to sleep but, the thread sections are valuable. IMHO. And practice, practice, practice. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) ,

I've been going to school for over a year now and I found it critical to my success in the shop. My .02c.

Pat

[BatFromHell]

Machinery's Handbook!!!
Forgot about the bible had my 20th edition sitting right in front of me on my desk.
Good call Pat but Tony is a beginner we don't want bore him to death with dry text. He might like some pretty pictures too. Helps with identifying parts of the machine. LOL (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

[bondo]

QUOTE (scott thacher @ Apr 7 2005, 08:44 PM)

i would beg to differ you can do more with a lathe, you can mill with a lathe, but you cannot turn iwth a mill to mill with a lathe you put the bit in the chuck, and put a vice on the tail stock or the tool holder/ clamp . but once again you cannot turn with a mill

But you CAN turn on a mill (sort of). I had to do it once because the part I was turning was too big to fit in the lathe. I used a big honkin' rotary table, and turned the crank as fast as I could (boy did my arm get tired). Of course it gets real clumsy real fast if you're doing anything fancy (just like milling on a lathe does).

That smithy thing looks pretty darn cool, but it probably has some limitations. I'd bet it's a great compromise if you don't have room for a lathe and a mill though.