After 2 years, the teener finally broke, I "THINK" its a fuel problem Options

[ninefourteener]

Ok...... so I'm a dumbass.

And all that talk about how reliable my teener has been over the past 2 years, has finally caught up with me. Bad Karma perhaps?

Anyway.... about a week ago, I was out driving the teener pretty late, and I ran the gas EXTREMELY low. I know I shouldn't have.. but I did.

A couple days later, I pulled it out of the garage on my lunchbreak, started it up, and went back inside to let it warm up.

Came back out, and the car was stopped...... and wouldn't restart. I figured I ran out of gas, but that afternoon, I put a couple gallons in it (enough to bring it to 1/4 tank)..... but it still won't start.

I'll pump and pump and pump and pump and pump the gas pedal, but it still won't start. (I have dual Solex Carbs) You'd THINK that I would have a foul gas smell, gas coming out the tailpipe, etc... but nope... nothing at all.

I hear the fuel pump working..... which leads me to believe there is a fuel blockage somewhere. Perhaps something as easy as a clogged filter???

The simple fact of the matter is that I've done almost no friggin work on this car at all in 2 years... so I have no idea where to start looking.

I'm going to peek in there tonight, change out the filter, and make sure there's no obvious clogs in the engine compartment... hopefully I'll find something.

MY QUESTION IS: If I don't find anything........ where's the next place to start looking??

Thanks in advance for the help..

Matt

[ArtechnikA]

check the filters, check the trash screens at the carbs if your Solexes have them like Webers do; and your idle jets, in case anything got through everything upstream.

dribble some gas down each carb throat - not a lot. if it starts and immediately dies, you'll know you have a fuel issue. (it *could* be something else. i think we've all burned up days chasing a problem we were SURE we had, only to discover the real problem elsewhere...)

donno what kind of fuel pump you have. i had one fill up with rust flakes to the point it quit pumping; with the exception of some roller-cell pumps, they all have a check valve of some description that can get wedged and cause no pressure... could be that the pump lost prime - especially if it's still in the back. you'd think 1/4 tank would give the fuel enough head to resolve that issue, but we're trying to cover all the bases here...

[ninefourteener]

Yes.... the fuel pump is in the back. Although I've never actually seen it with my own 2 eyes..... I hear it back there.

What do you mean the pump lost "prime"??? How do I fix that??

Are there any filters between the tank, and the pump? Or is the filter between the pump and the carbs?

Or both?

Sorry to sound so ignorant, but I really haven't even popped the engine lid to look at anything yet.. I'm literally starting from scratch. Been so busy lately.

[Kerrys914]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif)

What type of ignition do you have? I have heard if the key is left on (As it would be with a stalled car) and you have a petronix (SP) ignition it could burn up??

It seems like a gas related issue so disconnect the inlet to the pump and see if you get fuel to that point, work you way through the system (Point to point) to verify you have no blockages to the carbs.

Best of luck

[Joe Ricard]

So open the drivers door, look behind the seat in the lower left corner. Pull the little knob.... don't forget to put your hand on the engine lid. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/lol2.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/lol2.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/lol2.gif)

Inside there would be your engine (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/lol2.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/lol2.gif)

[ArtechnikA]

QUOTE (ninefourteener @ Apr 8 2005, 09:45 AM)

What do you mean the pump lost "prime"??? How do I fix that?? Are there any filters between the tank, and the pump? Or is the filter between the pump and the carbs?

fuel pumps don't like to suck air. or at least, they don't do it very well. if you somehow got an air bubble between the tank and the pump inlet, it may be difficult for the pump to get past it. if you remove the fuell line from the tank to the pump and fuel spurts out, that's not your problem. if you get *no* fuel flow at the pump inlet line, you have some kind of problem there and you know which end to look at. SLIGHTLY pressurise the tank (if possible, considering the venting) and see if that gets fuel to the pump. and/or blow through it from the pump toward the tank, hoping to flush anything that mightta got wedged there.

it's anyone's guess where whoever converted your car to carbs put filters, and what kind, and how many. "the usual places" are up front by the tank, at the bottom, under the gravel shield (near the tank outlets) and in back, near the pump.

[ninefourteener]

QUOTE (Joe Ricard @ Apr 8 2005, 06:55 AM)

So open the drivers door, look behind the seat in the lower left corner. Pull the little knob.... don't forget to put your hand on the engine lid. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/lol2.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/lol2.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/lol2.gif) Inside there would be your engine (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/lol2.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/lol2.gif)

LMAO...

Guess that explains why the last time I popped the hood....... all I saw was a tire and a gas tank (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/chairfall.gif)

[ninefourteener]

I really need to get out of my "1970's GM musclecar" mentality.

I want to look for everything up top first, then crawl under the car if necessary.

I'll crawl under it tonight...... replace whatever filters I can find, and take a good look at the pump as well...... I'll post again if I find anything.

Thanks everyone (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beerchug.gif)

[Pugbug]

I went through a fuel stavation problem with my carbed car also. It would start and run, but would start dying over 2500 rpm.
what I did was...
1.... Removed and cleaned the tank. There is a fine screen in the outlet, but the PO had blocked that and used the return (which is restrictive.and flush with the bottom of the tank allowing any rust scale to block it.) I changed it back to the outlet side with the screen.
That is the one closest to the center of the tank.

2....Changed and relocated the fuel filter under the tank.

3.....Installed a new fuel pump ( I don't know if this was needed, but it had a sad looking pump out of an old Honda.)

4.... Checked the screens in the Dells (under the banjos)

I hope this helps you out.

[Toast]

QUOTE (ArtechnikA @ Apr 8 2005, 07:41 AM)

dribble some gas down each carb throat - not a lot.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif)

I use to do that in the VW when I would run out of gas (gas gage didnt work (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif) ). I would put a tiny amount in the carbs, would have to pump it a bit, and it would fire.
I know its a diffent type of engine, but the problem would be that when I ran it completely out of gas, and just added fule to the fule tank; there would not be any gas in the fuel system or carbs, and it couldnt pump it through.
So adding gas to the carbs was really the only way to get it to fire, otherwise it would just constantly flood.

[p914]

You can always try starting fluid.

[ninefourteener]

QUOTE (Toast @ Apr 8 2005, 08:30 AM)

So adding gas to the carbs was really the only way to get it to fire, otherwise it would just constantly flood.

Thats the problem... I've flooded the car before in the past....... the problem is that no gas is even getting to the carbs

[Joe Ricard]

If you need a pump I got a few stashed away in boxes.

[merrill]

After 2 years your car didn't break (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/dry.gif) It just wants a little more attention from you (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif)

[Toast]

QUOTE (ninefourteener @ Apr 8 2005, 09:59 AM)

QUOTE (Toast @ Apr 8 2005, 08:30 AM) So adding gas to the carbs was really the only way to get it to fire, otherwise it would just constantly flood. Thats the problem... I've flooded the car before in the past....... the problem is that no gas is even getting to the carbs

welp, there ya go.

Put gas in your car, then dripple a little gas directly into the carbs. Pump it or floor it (however you usually start your car). It may take a few, and smell strong of gas, but it should (fingers crossed) start that way.

Good luck!

[ninefourteener]

Ok, now I'm really feeling stupid and need serious help..... My lunchbreak is almost over...... here's what I've done:

Crawled under the car, found the fuel filter right under the engine..... disconnected it..... gas all over the place... no clogs.

reconnected it........ and pumped and pumped and pumped....... it started....... and ran REALLY rough for about 5 seconds.

That happened twice.

Then...... SMOKE started pouring out of my air cleaner!!!! there is a burn mark on the top side of my passenger side air cleaner!!!!

it does NOT smell like gas... it smells electrical..... and it stopped when I turned the car off. I dont see any electrical wires going to that carb though.

The driver side air cleaner???? Stone cold.

I'm really lost..... someone HELP!!!

MATT

[Toast]

When was the last time you replaced or cleaned your air cleaner? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/huh.gif)

Ya know, you cant start a car with a completely clogged air cleaner. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

Since you haven't opened the engine lid in 2 years, im sure that air cleaner is spotless. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

[ArtechnikA]

QUOTE (ninefourteener @ Apr 8 2005, 12:45 PM)

... it started....... and ran REALLY rough for about 5 seconds. That happened twice. Then...... SMOKE started pouring out of my air cleaner!!!! there is a burn mark on the top side of my passenger side air cleaner!!!!

K&N's, yes ?

a dime'll get you a dollar you had a carb fire.

lean backfire through the carbs shoots flame onto the oil-soaked gauze.

you're lucky it went out when it did. have a fire extinguisher handy the next time you start it up - ideally with a helper. let the helper turn the key and work the throttle - *you* handle the fire bottle...

356's have this all too often - the float bowls empty, and then the lean-burn startup backfire through the intake sets one side alight.

[ninefourteener]

Unfortunately, I'm back at work now, so I can't be at the car... but I found this old pic of the engine... nothing has changed.

You can see on the far side.. the fuel pump mounted up against the firewall... an inline fuel pressure regulator, then the line directly to the passenger side carb.

I had K+N filters on my first teener.... these are not the same. its a wire-mesh air cleaner.. but I have no idea what they are... but someone should know by looking at them.

The burn mark was about the size of a quarter..... doesn't look like the whole cleaner was on fire. There is a sticker on the top of the air cleaner, and you can see it just got toasted.

Suggestions?

[hi ho silber]

Matt,
I'm up for trying to help.

I just sent a PM with my work/home numbers.

Brother ya just need to call!

I now you were MIA last year for awhile after we went to lunch. You missed the Fun Fest in effingham and the FFC. I've seen you posting on and off and now the weather's great let's get that beautiful car fixed!

Dave