This one's "Killing" me. I "must" comment to show everyone how much I know!, (don't) Options

[Evil914]

While I agree that personal disagreements and name calling don't really serve much purpose on this site I think that others opinions on a car for sale can be quite informative. I myself have learned quite a bit about the good,the bad and the ugly on 914 from people on this site that know quite a bit more than me about the pitfalls of buying a "used 914". I wished I had read most of this constructive criticism before I bought my first few 914s. There seems to be a few people who don't mind taking advantage of those that don't know or haven't suffered thru repairing a misrepresented car.I'm sure I'm not the only one who has learned the hard way but again I repeat,I'm greatful to all the members here that voiced their opinions on cars that were not what they seemed. Most people here seem to look out for the rest of us that don't know everything so I'd say I'm not the only one that gleans most of my info on good and bad from the balanced discussions on cars,parts etc. Quote:"If you're a buyer; Caveat Emptor - be aware there are various "Resellers" who are scouring our classifieds trying to sell you stuff. Caveat emptor = Buyer Beware. Be "very" cautious about pricing. Do your homework. We're not saying these people are "bad, crooked, evil or dishonest". It has simply been brought to our attention that some are attempting to price gouge our members.

"Gang - Fair Trade is just that... "Fair". If you're haunting our classifieds just to make a buck off our members; fine. Do it at a fair price. Make no mistake, we feel this is a valuable service to our members. HOWEVER, if you're price gouging our members; we'll work together to call you out. " Anyone here agree?

[Mike Fitton]

While I agree that personal disagreements and name calling don't really serve much purpose on this site I think that others opinions on a car for sale can be quite informative. I myself have learned quite a bit about the good,the bad and the ugly on 914 from people on this site that know quite a bit more than me about the pitfalls of buying a "used 914". I wished I had read most of this constructive criticism before I bought my first few 914s. There seems to be a few people who don't mind taking advantage of those that don't know or haven't suffered thru repairing a misrepresented car.I'm sure I'm not the only one who has learned the hard way but again I repeat,I'm greatful to all the members here that voiced their opinions on cars that were not what they seemed. Most people here seem to look out for the rest of us that don't know everything so I'd say I'm not the only one that gleans most of my info on good and bad from the balanced discussions on cars,parts etc. Quote:"If you're a buyer; Caveat Emptor - be aware there are various "Resellers" who are scouring our classifieds trying to sell you stuff. Caveat emptor = Buyer Beware. Be "very" cautious about pricing. Do your homework. We're not saying these people are "bad, crooked, evil or dishonest". It has simply been brought to our attention that some are attempting to price gouge our members.

"Gang - Fair Trade is just that... "Fair". If you're haunting our classifieds just to make a buck off our members; fine. Do it at a fair price. Make no mistake, we feel this is a valuable service to our members. HOWEVER, if you're price gouging our members; we'll work together to call you out. " Anyone here agree?

+1. I try not to negative comment. When I see an item that is for sale and I know the original source I will just start a new thread next to the FS thread with the direct source. NOS stock and very rare items the sky is the limit on price and market will dictate if it sells. Just my .02

[Tom_T]

I agree Mike, & have occasionally been what is now defined as an "offender" weighing in on particulars about certain cars or parts - always with the intend to be helpful.

To take your points a bit further - if we can only comment or correct things on a car/part by PM - then nobody else ever sees nor knows about the issue, & the seller can ignore the comments.

However, I think your topic here should be in the Garage Forum for a broader discussion, with an explanation of why you're bringing it up now, for those who maybe didn't see the series topics rant posts. Maybe you cn do another thread on there?

I don't know what precipitated the Admin to fire them off like that, but I suspect that it must've been something serious to set that all off. I agree that name calling, complaints, etc. shouldn't be on the ad posts (unless it's a valid problem with the part, delivery, etc. of that ad & done in a polite way).

Hope it's not too hot & sticky in W.Penn for you! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
We're just hot here in SoCal. < LOL - Never mind, I thought the OP was Dr. Evil

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[Bruce Hinds]

Dang . . . and I missed it all. Except for the Admins 5 or 6 repeated punches.
I'm dying to see the original post now . . . anyone have a link?

[cal914]

I think you should be allowed to comment on cars and parts for sale , there's a lot of people on this site who know a great deal more than myself and I appreciate there opion
When selling if you have nothing to hide let people have there opion if it gets personal then Admin should intervene other wise leave well alone

[My 914]

I would also be curious to see what the offending link was as I check the site regularly and don't remember seeing anything in particular (unless it was quickly removed)
There are a lot of astute 914 enthusiasts on this site who can spot a flaw or problem a mile away and I think that most comments made are helpful to potential buyers because they often point out issues that may be overlooked in the rush to make a deal. Or over looked because of inexperience.
I also feel that there is a big difference between a member putting a car up for sale on the site and the ebay and craigslists ads which are also often included. The ebay and craigslist listings may be honest but are occasionally scams or attempts to sell a car that is "not as advertised" These listings should be fair game to any and all comments about the car or the seller that members feel like sharing, especially if they know the car or seller from a previous bad experience.

[sixaddict]

Frankly these posts are an example of the problem ...this is a "Cars for sale" forum. Unless the seller has asked for comments you are out of line. The administrator tried to get that message through but y'all would rather debate it...
Get it now (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[Mike Fitton]

I would also be curious to see what the offending link was as I check the site regularly and don't remember seeing anything in particular (unless it was quickly removed)

I was thinking it might have been my comments on this FS thread where I posted a link to the original parts source, not sure but here it is.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...=289817&hl=

Since you are still able to view it I might not be the offender.

[Tom_T]

Can an Admin move this to the Garage forum please, for a broader discussion & proper placement.

I don't think the OP knew where to put this one.

I do think that we 914world members should be able to look out for each other on here with a modicum of helpful comments in ads - as in helpful either to seller or buyer(s) or for both.

We shouldn't be protecting only sellers like they do on evil-bay & craig's lost does, with their caveat emptor to buyers.

IMHO - Mike F's post noted above saved some serious coin to some members over a high mark-up! Moral of the story: if you want to make a business of trolling evil-bay & finding items, then maybe only mark up a reasonable margin, but not 3-4x what you paid ($34.77 > $111 incl. shipping in this case). That is just taking advantage of members here.

BTW - DHL shipping from Europe/UK is pretty good, about 1-1.5 weeks to the West Coast for me, if you see stuff over there.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
Tom
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[Tom_T]

Frankly these posts are an example of the problem ...this is a "Cars for sale" forum. Unless the seller has asked for comments you are out of line. The administrator tried to get that message through but y'all would rather debate it...
Get it now (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

I think the OP didn't know where to post this, so did it where the other posts occured in here. Yes we should be able to debate or discuss such matters, but the Garage Forum is the appropriate place for it.

While I respect your opinion & your right to it & to express it, I disagree that the seller should expect to post anything & not be called on it. We should look out for each other, & 914world not be the wild west for sellers.

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[era vulgaris]

I thought it had to do with this thread regarding fduval's car, which honestly I thought was an odd thread to start in the FS section anyway. It should have been posted in the garage, but I think the newbie poster didn't know.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=289224

Why not just disallow comments in the cars for sale section? Make it like the Samba, where if you want info or have questions, you have to email the seller? That would solve the problem. If anyone has questions about a car for sale, they can start a thread in the garage.
If you want to dissect cars, you can always go to BaT (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Mueller]

I thought it had to do with this thread regarding fduval's car, which honestly I thought was an odd thread to start in the FS section anyway. It should have been posted in the garage, but I think the newbie poster didn't know.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=289224

Why not just disallow comments in the cars for sale section? Make it like the Samba, where if you want info or have questions, you have to email the seller? That would solve the problem. If anyone has questions about a car for sale, they can start a thread in the garage.
If you want to dissect cars, you can always go to BaT (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Yes, the garage seems to be a better place for questions that are going to get answered by someone other than the seller!

Sellers are not always honest or they could be clueless with no intent to hide things.

Buyers are often clueless as well so sometimes the nitpicking is really an education for many.

[Mark Henry]

Maybe all that is needed is a sticky at the top of the page linking to a thread on how to do your own PPI, what questions to ask, what you want re: pictures, etc...

Asking for pictures of the hell hole, etc., is ok in my book, just keep the comments to yourself or in PMs if you are actually serious about the car.

[mepstein]

Eric's post is pretty clear -

"Do not comment on people's ads unless you are interested in purchasing the item or vehicle and you are requesting further information from the seller.

If you have personal issues with a seller, keep them as such... personal.

If you think the ad is misleading, contact the seller and an Admin via private message.

Any further abuse or violations of the site rules (name calling) will get you banned."

[Tom_T]

Eric's post is pretty clear -

"Do not comment on people's ads unless you are interested in purchasing the item or vehicle and you are requesting further information from the seller.

If you have personal issues with a seller, keep them as such... personal.

If you think the ad is misleading, contact the seller and an Admin via private message.

Any further abuse or violations of the site rules (name calling) will get you banned."

Then Mark, I guess some of us are pretty clearly saying that we disagree with Eric's approach to that, on this forum of members who should be looking out for each other, rather than letting sellers post anything they chose & then chose to ignore being called/corrected on it privately.

IIRC, you too have chimed in on occasion to correct something glaring to those who know, on some other folks classifieds. So I think that you do or have felt that way too, at least then.

Rennlist, Pelican, TheSamba (contrary to the comment above), Bimmerfiles, AirForums, & a number of the other forums which I'm on do not restrict other members pointing out things & corrections for the benefit of all, as Eric is trying to reinterpret the rules now.

These ARE the classified rules:

"Classified Rules!, Return to the forum

We've established the following guidelines to help make your sales/purchases as successful as possible!
- Please List WTB:, FS:, TRADE: etc (want to buy, for sale, and trade respectively) before your add title.
- Please put a price in your ad and state how you would like payment.
- If you'd like to bump your ads, feel free to do so every two days.
- DO NOT MAKE YOUR ADS IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS! It's considered rude.
- All eBay ads belong in the eBay category.
- Please consolidate your ads into one big lump... listings and pictures together in one thread. Please be considerate of other classified users!!"

It says NOTHING of the sort which Eric put in his several posts on this matter.

PS - Eric is usually pretty easy going, so I'm guessing that he was having a bad day &/or something in particular set him off on it.

PS - I do agree that ongoing OT discussions on someone else's ad is inconsiderate, & should be avoided to be polite, but pointing out something to help the seller &/or prospective buyers is not OT IMHO, & is what we should be doing for our fellow members. And I've suggested to many advertisers on CL & other places to come to 914world to list their cars & parts etc. to reach the 914 community worldwide - so i'm not anti-seller, even when I may not want/need their particular item (i.e.: no malice intended).

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[mepstein]

Eric's post is pretty clear -

"Do not comment on people's ads unless you are interested in purchasing the item or vehicle and you are requesting further information from the seller.

If you have personal issues with a seller, keep them as such... personal.

If you think the ad is misleading, contact the seller and an Admin via private message.

Any further abuse or violations of the site rules (name calling) will get you banned."

Then Mark, I guess some of us are pretty clearly saying that we disagree with Eric's approach to that, on this forum of members who should be looking out for each other, rather than letting sellers post anything they chose & then chose to ignore being called/corrected on it privately.

IIRC, you too have chimed in on occasion to correct something glaring to those who know, on some other folks classifieds. So I think that you do or have felt that way too, at least then.

Rennlist, Pelican, TheSamba (contrary to the comment above), Bimmerfiles, AirForums, & a number of the other forums which I'm on do not restrict other members pointing out things & corrections for the benefit of all, as Eric is trying to reinterpret the rules now.

These ARE the classified rules:

"Classified Rules!, Return to the forum

We've established the following guidelines to help make your sales/purchases as successful as possible!
- Please List WTB:, FS:, TRADE: etc (want to buy, for sale, and trade respectively) before your add title.
- Please put a price in your ad and state how you would like payment.
- If you'd like to bump your ads, feel free to do so every two days.
- DO NOT MAKE YOUR ADS IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS! It's considered rude.
- All eBay ads belong in the eBay category.
- Please consolidate your ads into one big lump... listings and pictures together in one thread. Please be considerate of other classified users!!"

It says NOTHING of the sort which Eric put in his several posts on this matter.

PS - Eric is usually pretty easy going, so I'm guessing that he was having a bad day &/or something in particular set him off on it.

PS - I do agree that ongoing OT discussions on someone else's ad is inconsiderate, & should be avoided to be polite, but pointing out something to help the seller &/or prospective buyers is not OT IMHO, & is what we should be doing for our fellow members. And I've suggested to many advertisers on CL & other places to come to 914world to list their cars & parts etc. to reach the 914 community worldwide - so i'm not anti-seller, even when I may not want/need their particular item (i.e.: no malice intended).

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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It didn't look to be a discussion. I just took it as face value and probably representing Sir Andy's wishes. Since he's the one who controls the "ban button" I'm following the request. If you want to challenge it, be my guest.

[Tom_T]

It didn't look to be a discussion. I just took it as face value and probably representing Sir Andy's wishes. Since he's the one who controls the "ban button" I'm following the request. If you want to challenge it, be my guest.

PS - I meant that this topic was started as a discussion in response to these new "off the books" classified rules.

Mark, nothing personal.

I was just pointing out that the Classified Rules say nothing about the new restrictions, & that many of us have a different opinion.

I too have been PMing a couple of classified posters on their clarifications myself - & the true loss to this site in general, is that the sources/alternatives for the WTB one that I PMed on are now "lost" to the rest of the membership who may be looking for the same part. We've had a couple of PMs back & forth re rain trays, & I think/hope that I helped the OP, but nobody else knows that info now, which has been a big value to many on this site, as a few have noted above.

I don't know about Andy's thoughts on the matter Mark, but I do feel it's worth discussing how we let sellers operate in our classifieds, & whether members can/should publicly comment on key issues about classified posts.

However, I do think that trying to resolve a sale, price, delivery or other issue with a seller should first be tried privately by PM/email/call.

And maybe that was what Eric (& other Admins?) was getting at for his posts, & then just went beyond that aspect with the multiple posts?

I would think that Andy (914world owner) & the other Admins would be open to hearing other members' thoughts on the matter.

But this topic really should be moved to the Garage for that reason.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[mepstein]

It didn't look to be a discussion. I just took it as face value and probably representing Sir Andy's wishes. Since he's the one who controls the "ban button" I'm following the request. If you want to challenge it, be my guest.

PS - I meant that this topic was started as a discussion in response to these new "off the books" classified rules.

Mark, nothing personal.

I was just pointing out that the Classified Rules say nothing about the new restrictions, & that many of us have a different opinion.

I too have been PMing a couple of classified posters on their clarifications myself - & the true loss to this site in general, is that the sources/alternatives for the WTB one that I PMed on are now "lost" to the rest of the membership who may be looking for the same part. We've had a couple of PMs back & forth re rain trays, & I think/hope that I helped the OP, but nobody else knows that info now, which has been a big value to many on this site, as a few have noted above.

I don't know about Andy's thoughts on the matter Mark, but I do feel it's worth discussing how we let sellers operate in our classifieds, & whether members can/should publicly comment on key issues about classified posts.

However, I do think that trying to resolve a sale, price, delivery or other issue with a seller should first be tried privately by PM/email/call.

And maybe that was what Eric (& other Admins?) was getting at for his posts, & then just went beyond that aspect with the multiple posts?

I would think that Andy (914world owner) & the other Admins would be open to hearing other members' thoughts on the matter.

But this topic really should be moved to the Garage for that reason.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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I'm guessing the - new "off the books" classified rules- are the new classified rules. That's why Andy has admins, to help - administer his rules to his site.

[Tom_T]

I'm guessing the - new "off the books" classified rules- are the new classified rules. That's why Andy has admins, to help - administer his rules to his site.

Mark,

I just cut-n-pasted the current classified rules in their entirety, as we replied this morning.

If there are new rules, then they would be at the click on button for the rules.

In the meantime for any changes to them, I assume that we're allowed to discuss the question.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[G e o r g e]

I'm guessing the - new "off the books" classified rules- are the new classified rules. That's why Andy has admins, to help - administer his rules to his site.

Mark,

I just cut-n-pasted the current classified rules in their entirety, as we replied this morning.

If there are new rules, then they would be at the click on button for the rules.

In the meantime for any changes to them, I assume that we're allowed to discuss the question.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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link to no comment rule in effect for last 4 years

Tom, you must have missed the member meeting when this new rule was voted in. Eric as the classified admin posted the new rule, in the worlds admin rules an regs pamplet he has 90 days to update the Main section rules posting. Eric as with the other admin do this for free, get off their backs, making an assumption he had a bad day and thats why he posted the new rule over and over shows how self absorbed you are , Why do you believe Eric or any other admin needs to address your thoughts on this?

Ask a question, don't make a comment, seems easy enough...