Concours judging for preservation class Options

[22truckie]

Ok. At the risk of offending I have a question. I plan on submitting my unrestored 914 in the preservation class for judging at the national Porsche Parade in Spokane WA next year ( live in the state). I was advised by a very helpful member of this site about how the judging goes. He stated in preservation class judging, if you have factory paint and there are some runs in it , from the factory, that I needed to wet sand those down or I would get deducted. I also noted to him that on my car there were areas where the person at the factory who applied the adhesive for the weather stripping was a little over jelious and got some brush strokes outside the weather stripping. He also stated those would probably need to be removed to prevent point deduction. He then stated he was a concours judge for 914's. Now I have entered major concours shows in preservation classes and placed and never heard anything along those lines. I guess my question is this : If you are not judging on how the car was made exactly from the factory with no alterations or modifications at all, including, and especially, factory imperfections. Then what exactly are you preserving? How the car was made at the factory or how you wish the car looked from the factory. I know I am a new member but I am a long term unrestored, untouched addict who works hard at having people understand how important these treasures really are. Hope this spurs some good posts. Again no offense was ment by this post. I very much appreciate the help the judge was trying to give me

[JeffBowlsby]

Concours. Beauty contests. Who needs' em? Beauty is subjective and cannot be judged. I have seen stunning cars 'lose' to mediocre cars because of political connections of their owners in these events. And technical goofs like backpad adhesive being mistaken for rust because the judge was not competent regarding 914s. Gives me a distaste for the whole concept of these events.

Cleanliness and technical things can be judged but those are merely rational evaluations which is what these events are really about. These events become so subjective and often times the car owners and participants know more and care more about their car than the judges do. Then there is the winners/losers issue - someone always 'wins' and someone 'loses'...anyone who cares enough to display their car 'wins' in my book - they are putting it all out there - to share what is important to them, with others.

I wish all events like these were simply for display purposes only, for everyones enjoyment. No judging, no awards - they take the fun out of the event.

[tod914]

Every one of the cars that I've owned over the years, had glue residue and paint runs. Paint runs were mainly in the front and rear trunks, and the under side of the doors. I wouldn't even consider wet sanding it smooth. Never came up as an issue in zone 1. What did come up, like Tom and others mentioned were untouched up chips/scratches and dings. If they were touched up, then no deduction. A couple tenths of a point is the difference between winning and losing.
I did have glue residue pointed out on some of the cars at events. For the following show, I addressed that. Being I pulled a fair amount of the seals to prep the cars anyway, cleaning that up wasn't a big deal. Nor did I feel it was detrimental to the car's originality. The products I used, took it off anyway. Getting a coat of wax under where they lie for protection was more important to me.
The front trunk gutter seal I would always pull off and clean up. Each time you wash the car, water will get trapped in there. I made it a point to pull the front trunk seal, and rear trunk seals off after a wash so they could be properly dried, and prevent future rust. Make sure the seals are completely dry before you put them back in.
Glue residue, up to you. But think about water sitting in the gutters when you wash it. Factory paint runs leave.
By all means enter your car. You can use the gigs as a check list for the next event. If you feel something is going to diminish the cars originality, then don't do it irregardless of who is suggesting it to you.
Like Tom said, you can always bring that matter up with the panel to discuss it and right the wrong (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Good luck!

[CVLCPorsche]

Small world, I sold the OP the car he is prepping for Parade. Great car and RARE color! I just stumbled across this thread and figured I would add my experience.

I have never shown a 914 at Parade but have shown my 88 3.2 Carrera and 964 in Parade Preservation class. I recently won Best in Class (964/993) at the Rennworks Reunion 2016 in Monterrey which utilized Zone 8 Concours Rules. I have also shown and judged in my local regions. Here are my key takeaways:

-Rules- READ the rules over and over, know them inside and out. Sadly I have seen amazing cars lose because they didn't know the rules, the expectation or the classing. Winning is a good portion knowing how the system works and how to work within it.

-First Impressions is HUGE- The Judges for your class will walk all the entrants and usually decide on a very preliminary basis the first couple winners. You will find at most of these shows that this will be obvious to you as well. If there are 5 914's they will all be nice cars but 1 or 2 will literally POP from 50 feet away. Trust me, the judges need to streamline the process and while they won't admit it, they know which cars are the likely winner before official judging starts.They may alter their 1 and 2 or 2 and 3 spots, but keep this in mind. When you get to Parade Prep be there 2 days ahead and scope out your competition. Figure out how to make your car stand out before hand. Also talk very nicely to everyone who comes by during Prep, often the judges are walking the garage and seeing the cars early. You never know when your cars fun "backstory" plays into a Judges initial impression...

-Preparation and Cleanliness are EVERYTHING- Winning cars are WAY cleaner than the day they were delivered. In Preservation its full judging only (exterior, interior, storage and chassis). The chassis judging is a hands off style of judging (as opposed to Touring classes where judges are physically touching underneath the car looking for dirt, grease, etc. So it needs to look immaculate in EVERY nook and cranny. A lot of it is BS, remember you are playing the game. Little stuff is really ridiculous like Judges putting their finger in latches and finding grease. Of course it should have grease... Not in Concours! Clean, Clean, Clean is the mantra. As you prep this year disassemble every item as you service it and take the time to clean in places you can't get clean otherwise. If you think it could be cleaner, it can...

-Wear/Tear/Patina- In Preservation in theory you are not deducted for evidence of use as long as you have attempted to attend to it. So for example rock chips should be touched up as best as possible, but a car showing evidence of use is expected. I happen to know your car so other items should be attended to such as Paintless Dent Repair (PDR) as you can remove some door dings and not touch the original paint. The key with these items is as best as possible try to minimize their visual impact without repairing/restoring as that defeats the purpose. Its a fine line, ultimately its your car so attend to it as you see fit.

-Personality- Be prepared to tell a great story about your car when you meet the judges. They will give you a minute to tell them about your car, use is wisely and make it memorable. When they are judging your car, be quiet (observe closely for the future!) but don't stand over them. Make yourself available if they have any questions and use friendly body language. Basically be likable! Thank them when they finish! As a Judge its VERY distracting when your have an argumentative owner who is looming over you with crossed arms...

-Politics- Never forget PCA like any other organization suffers from the inevitable Politics, favoritism, etc. etc. The vast majority of the people are GREAT and they are volunteers but don't ever forget that sometimes you can do your best and not win and it isn't always just about the cars or the rules... Keep it in perspective, this is truly a first World problem!

-Judges- Never forget they are human and volunteers. If you are lucky you will get some people who are VERY 914 knowledgable. But its also possible you get a Judge or 2 who shockingly doesn't know much. This is quite common on less common models like 914's. You might get a Judge who knows 996 and 997's very well but somehow gets recruited to Judge 914's. Hence make yourself available and become a subject matter expert on your car. Oftentimes you can head off a potential issue just by providing a little background.

Second Set of Eyes- Ideally before you leave for Spokane recruit some local Judges to pre-judge your car. They will show you areas that could be improved. Do the same thing the day before the event at Prep. Even less experienced people will sometimes see things we don't. I lost points on a dirty spot on a battery that was OBVIOUS but I had looked at it so many times I simply didn't see it!

Have Fun and Don't Take it Personal- If its not fun, don't do it! Also don't let it affect how you feel about your car. You have an amazing car regardless of how it fares!

Nathan

[Cracker]

Nathan - Very nicely written and honest advice - anyone interested in this-side of the hobby should listen...none of which sounds like fun to me. Different strokes for...

You seem to know exactly how to win, what buttons to push, and stories to tell. I particularly like the "Also talk very nicely to everyone who comes by during Prep"; like as in odd/funny/sad. Isn't that how you should be naturally - cynical, I know on my part but...

There is a purity to racing - first one across the line wins. Much easier removing the human elements (mostly that is)!

Again, a well written blueprint to winning "car" shows...

Tony

[alfagta]

Nathan, I'm in Tacoma and was wondering about how judges look at factory cosmoline on the underside of cars in preservation class. Do you think it's neutral or a deficit worth going through the effort to clean it off? Thanks, Bill