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> Hot Summer; Hot, Overheating V-8 Radiator Setup., Hot Summer; Hot, Overheating V-8 Radiator Setup.
BRAVE_HELIOS
post Jul 26 2016, 08:35 PM
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Can anyone divulge details on the Renegade Hybrid radiator system such as dimensions, Inlet and outlet sizes and rad type (number of rows, if cross flow etc...). Is it even allowed ;-)?

This hot summer has proven that my system cannot handle it. I have some good components such as a 2000 cfm, 9 blade fan out of a Ford Taurus. The remote mechanical water pump is a standard R.H. unit. I also have a Griffin radiator, model 125241-H... no radiator cap (inlet=1.5" and outlet=1.75").

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/gri-1-25241-x

The dimensions are 16"x 27.5" x 3". it is a 2 row unit. Although the inlet/outlet sizes are different, the hoses carrying coolant from front to rear are all the same size at 1.25 inch diameter. The Tech rep at Griffin seems to think that the rad should be fine but I ain't no 4 core unit either.

The other part of this is the car has a Chalon kit installed. I question whether the bumper opening for rad air is sufficiently sized. The opening is ducted to the bulkhead opening. The inner fender walls are fully open to allow the air to exit.

From all that I've read; the viable solutions is to either go with a RH rad setup (or as close to as possible) and/or go with an electric water pump. I think I have some (most) of what RH would sell me as there rad kit. The only difference I can see is the rad size/type and the bumper opening size.

Pictures of my current setup can be found here:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...132273&hl=#

I feel like I am close to getting this figured out. Just a bit more tinkering is needed.

Thanks!
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Mike Bellis
post Jul 26 2016, 09:21 PM
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Your radiator should be big enough. Mechanical pump? Like a stock chevy pump? Might be a flow problem. The outlet holes should be double the inlet hole for best low pressure behind the radiator.

You can only have a few problems...
Poor water flow
Air pocket in the system (very common)
Poor air flow through the radiator

That's it.

My AFCO radiator was the same size when I ran a V8. The key was to ensure there was no possible path of air around the radiator. None.

I would also use a vacuum pump through a holding tank to pull a vac on the system at the high point. At the low point I would have a tank of water with a ball valve closed. Once full vacuum was pulled, I would open the ball valve to suck in water. close the valve and do it again and again until no air came through the holding tank.

I now run a Celica GTS radiator and it fits way better and has absolutely ZERO possible air flow around it. Engine never, ever gets above about 180F. Even if I leave it idling on a hot summer day.
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messix
post Jul 26 2016, 09:37 PM
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link doesnt go to build thread
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BRAVE_HELIOS
post Jul 26 2016, 09:51 PM
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Interesting. What year GTS? Did you pick it up at a dismantler? How much?

I Don't think I have any air pockets but I am not 100% sure. If I can rig something up like you describe, I will try it.

I forgot to add... I recently purchased a couple of 12 inch AC condenser fans off of a 90's Toyota 4Runner. So far I attached them to the inner fender walls to help exhaust the hot air from the radiator and main fan. No difference really. Any other suggestions to place the fan(s)... perhaps as a pusher on the front side of the rad or as a puller on the back side of the bumper grill opening? How about the engine bay area?


QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Jul 26 2016, 09:21 PM) *

Your radiator should be big enough. Mechanical pump? Like a stock chevy pump? Might be a flow problem. The outlet holes should be double the inlet hole for best low pressure behind the radiator.

You can only have a few problems...
Poor water flow
Air pocket in the system (very common)
Poor air flow through the radiator

That's it.

My AFCO radiator was the same size when I ran a V8. The key was to ensure there was no possible path of air around the radiator. None.

I would also use a vacuum pump through a holding tank to pull a vac on the system at the high point. At the low point I would have a tank of water with a ball valve closed. Once full vacuum was pulled, I would open the ball valve to suck in water. close the valve and do it again and again until no air came through the holding tank.

I now run a Celica GTS radiator and it fits way better and has absolutely ZERO possible air flow around it. Engine never, ever gets above about 180F. Even if I leave it idling on a hot summer day.

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messix
post Jul 26 2016, 09:54 PM
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the pictures of your set up show that there is unsealed areas around the radiator to the front of the air inlet. you have to have that air tight to keep the air flow from going around the radiator. http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act...t&id=264162 http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-...85753_thumb.jpg this is a sealed inlet.
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Mike Bellis
post Jul 26 2016, 10:00 PM
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Mine is an ebay special http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-ROW-DUAL-CORE-BO...rVe&vxp=mtr

I am running a factory style dual fan setup.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-2005-TOYOTA-C...Kds&vxp=mtr


for vacuum I use a harbor freight vac pump to a modified 5 gallon air tank. I use claer hos so I can see the liquid. Hos in top of tank to vac pump. hos in bottom of tank to car. I also setup a manometer on the side of the tank so I can see how much liquid is in the tank. I think I have about $150 into the setup.
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Mike Bellis
post Jul 26 2016, 10:02 PM
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Radiator install

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...7914&st=420
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BRAVE_HELIOS
post Jul 26 2016, 10:03 PM
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Thanks for the info. Out of curiosity, what are the dimensions of your bumper grill opening?


QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Jul 26 2016, 10:00 PM) *

Mine is an ebay special http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-ROW-DUAL-CORE-BO...rVe&vxp=mtr

I am running a factory style dual fan setup.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-2005-TOYOTA-C...Kds&vxp=mtr


for vacuum I use a harbor freight vac pump to a modified 5 gallon air tank. I use claer hos so I can see the liquid. Hos in top of tank to vac pump. hos in bottom of tank to car. I also setup a manometer on the side of the tank so I can see how much liquid is in the tank. I think I have about $150 into the setup.

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Mike Bellis
post Jul 26 2016, 10:05 PM
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QUOTE(BRAVE_HELIOS @ Jul 26 2016, 09:03 PM) *

Thanks for the info. Out of curiosity, what are the dimensions of your bumper grill opening?


QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Jul 26 2016, 10:00 PM) *

Mine is an ebay special http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-ROW-DUAL-CORE-BO...rVe&vxp=mtr

I am running a factory style dual fan setup.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-2005-TOYOTA-C...Kds&vxp=mtr


for vacuum I use a harbor freight vac pump to a modified 5 gallon air tank. I use claer hos so I can see the liquid. Hos in top of tank to vac pump. hos in bottom of tank to car. I also setup a manometer on the side of the tank so I can see how much liquid is in the tank. I think I have about $150 into the setup.


The width is a standard GT opening but I raised the opening 2" to match the dimensions of my oil cooler.
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BRAVE_HELIOS
post Jul 26 2016, 10:06 PM
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Yes, but since those pictures were taken, I added foam around the perimeter of the radiator blocking any air from circulating around it.

QUOTE(messix @ Jul 26 2016, 09:54 PM) *

the pictures of your set up show that there is unsealed areas around the radiator to the front of the air inlet. you have to have that air tight to keep the air flow from going around the radiator. http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act...t&id=264162 http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-...85753_thumb.jpg this is a sealed inlet.

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Mike Bellis
post Jul 26 2016, 10:09 PM
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What pressure is your cap?

Do you run a water wetter?

Does it overheat when the car is moving?
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BRAVE_HELIOS
post Jul 26 2016, 10:16 PM
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Not sure what a wetter is. Coolant additive? Yes.

Rad cap pressure... I believe 15-16 psi.

Generally speaking; the faster I go (even at constant velocity) the whotter it gets.



QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Jul 26 2016, 10:09 PM) *

What pressure is your cap?

Do you run a water wetter?

Does it overheat when the car is moving?

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Mike Bellis
post Jul 26 2016, 10:21 PM
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QUOTE(BRAVE_HELIOS @ Jul 26 2016, 09:16 PM) *

Not sure what a wetter is. Coolant additive? Yes.

Rad cap pressure... I believe 15-16 psi.

Generally speaking; the faster I go (even at constant velocity) the whotter it gets.



QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Jul 26 2016, 10:09 PM) *

What pressure is your cap?

Do you run a water wetter?

Does it overheat when the car is moving?


I'm thinking you have a water flow problem. Time for an electric pump. Even if you have bad air flow, it should run cooler while moving if your water flow is good.
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cali914
post Jul 27 2016, 12:47 AM
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QUOTE(BRAVE_HELIOS @ Jul 26 2016, 07:35 PM) *

Can anyone divulge details on the Renegade Hybrid radiator system such as dimensions, Inlet and outlet sizes and rad type (number of rows, if cross flow etc...). Is it even allowed ;-)?

This hot summer has proven that my system cannot handle it. I have some good components such as a 2000 cfm, 9 blade fan out of a Ford Taurus. The remote mechanical water pump is a standard R.H. unit. I also have a Griffin radiator, model 125241-H... no radiator cap (inlet=1.5" and outlet=1.75").

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/gri-1-25241-x

The dimensions are 16"x 27.5" x 3". it is a 2 row unit. Although the inlet/outlet sizes are different, the hoses carrying coolant from front to rear are all the same size at 1.25 inch diameter. The Tech rep at Griffin seems to think that the rad should be fine but I ain't no 4 core unit either.

The other part of this is the car has a Chalon kit installed. I question whether the bumper opening for rad air is sufficiently sized. The opening is ducted to the bulkhead opening. The inner fender walls are fully open to allow the air to exit.

From all that I've read; the viable solutions is to either go with a RH rad setup (or as close to as possible) and/or go with an electric water pump. I think I have some (most) of what RH would sell me as there rad kit. The only difference I can see is the rad size/type and the bumper opening size.

Pictures of my current setup can be found here:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...132273&hl=#

I feel like I am close to getting this figured out. Just a bit more tinkering is needed.

Thanks!

Man I went through the same thing with my old small block 914 tried regular water pump, different size hose lines and four different radiators finally I bit the bullet and purchased The Renegade set up with a 55 gallon Meizere water pump which I mounted close to the radiator and the car stayed between 160 and 190 all day long hot or cold days. Another biggie is to have your system where your air gets bled out and fluid is sucked in. The Renegade set up is a little pricey but it's proven especially with them being in Las Vegas and pay the man one time and be done with it. Then you can focus on a turbo set up. LOL (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
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veekry9
post Jul 27 2016, 12:59 AM
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A restrictive cooling system will overheat,in spite of good airflow.Testing the pump's capacity,against a simulated restrictor,will give the actual numbers.
Air entrapment is the usual suspect,or culprit,another is the pump's rpm.A simple change to a smaller diameter pulley may be sufficient.
A serpentine path of coolant hoses,with high points,will trap air,and restrict flow.
A remote expansion and overflow tank is needed at both ends in the typical installation for that reason.
The low point in the system should be at the center of the wheelbase,both ends rising steadily from there to opposite ends.
The inclusion of two tanks is to allow the waterborne steam bubbles to escape the system at each end.

"Rob Kozak: In your case you can run it any way you want. I run Hilborn on my MG with a Hilborn front cover and cam driven fuel pump. We run a Jabsco "water puppy" boat 12volt water pump plumbed into theports where the original SBC water pump bolted Jegs and Summit both have fittings that bolt on and take AN fittings. The return comes out of the Hilborn manifold and goes back to the radiator. BUT this year Hilborn had port in the back of the manifold and I utilized them by making a cross over hose. I don't know if its any more efficient but it does work as far as flowing is concerned."
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads...diagram.464209/
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/148-0504-...ng-system-info/
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/mc/water-pumps/
http://www.chevyhardcore.com/tech-stories/...ic-water-pumps/
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/engines-d...in/0408sc-pump/

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Go with the flow.The photos clearly show the hoses as much larger than 1-1/2",to allow the unimpeded flow of glycol/water mix.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
/
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Chris914n6
post Jul 27 2016, 01:35 AM
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Post pics of the whole system please.
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76-914
post Jul 27 2016, 08:04 AM
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QUOTE(BRAVE_HELIOS @ Jul 26 2016, 09:06 PM) *

Yes, but since those pictures were taken, I added foam around the perimeter of the radiator blocking any air from circulating around it.

QUOTE(messix @ Jul 26 2016, 09:54 PM) *

the pictures of your set up show that there is unsealed areas around the radiator to the front of the air inlet. you have to have that air tight to keep the air flow from going around the radiator. http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act...t&id=264162 http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-...85753_thumb.jpg this is a sealed inlet.


That's good but how are you sealing off the top. It needs to be a true, closed plenum. +1 on the Celica set up! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
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cali914
post Jul 27 2016, 09:28 AM
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Make sure your fill is higher than your radiator and its inline in the system and the air should come out and your overflow tank should replace with fresh coolant. Do you have a bleed anywhere else also.
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1stworks
post Jul 27 2016, 09:43 AM
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Heres my in and out on renegade set up.96 deg I run 200 to 225ish.

That's a lighter for ref.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i1315.photobucket.com-15718-1469634194.1.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i1315.photobucket.com-15718-1469634194.2.jpg)

5.3 Ls electric water pump.
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Andyrew
post Jul 27 2016, 09:43 AM
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If after you've done all of Mike's suggestions for air flow and removing trapped air then its time for a Davies Craig EWP and LCD controller.

Nothing but good things to say about mine. Granted Im only doing my 1.8T but the system was designed for v8's. Worst case scenario you can use it as an auxiliary flow pump, use the LCD controller to control it and your electric fan.

http://daviescraig.com.au/product/ewp150-a...2v-part-no-8870

This is where I got mine.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Yr-Wy-ALLOY-ELEC...G6w&vxp=mtr




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