Flood damaged 914, Ouch Options

[forrestkhaag]

i agree with take the money and run but onyour way out of the insurance settlement office, offer to buy bak the salvage for a few hundre dollars / you then will have a decent check, and some additional cash flow from the bits and pieces.

i did this with my 82 SC Targa when my girlfriend was broadsided (no pun intended) and the car was totaled. They sold the salvage for 1200 bucks. I then sold the engine for 5K, seats for hundreds, and interior parts, etc.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[r_towle]

strip it and redo it.
The inner heater baffles are wrecked, so open up the longs and remove those, then dip the car and start again..

rich

[GregAmy]

So let's think about this is purely economic terms. Let's say the car is a primo 2L and worth $15k, and is insured for $15k. Ins co pays out $14k after deductible, you're down $1k. Let's say you can buy it back for $1k, now you're down $2k.

How much work, time, money, parts, effort, repairs are you going to have to do to that thing to get it back to a $15k level? Can you completely strip and restore a 914 2L for $13k just to break even?

Maybe you're bored, maybe you look forward to doing that and it's a hobby, but how much in repairs and parts are you going to spend out of pocket? I mean you're talking major disassembly here, maybe even an engine overhaul, just to get it back to a level of what you could buy if you took that $14k and bought another one. And then you have a car on a salvage title.

I cannot even imagine the value of taking on such a project, unless it's just something you want to do.

Just jet it go. Put the VIN in the database with that photo and walk away from it. There's another one just like it around the corner.

[r_towle]

Since when does logic weigh into these decisions?
I missed that memo.

So let's think about this is purely economic terms. Let's say the car is a primo 2L and worth $15k, and is insured for $15k. Ins co pays out $14k after deductible, you're down $1k. Let's say you can buy it back for $1k, now you're down $2k.

How much work, time, money, parts, effort, repairs are you going to have to do to that thing to get it back to a $15k level? Can you completely strip and restore a 914 2L for $13k just to break even?

Maybe you're bored, maybe you look forward to doing that and it's a hobby, but how much in repairs and parts are you going to spend out of pocket? I mean you're talking major disassembly here, maybe even an engine overhaul, just to get it back to a level of what you could buy if you took that $14k and bought another one. And then you have a car on a salvage title.

I cannot even imagine the value of taking on such a project, unless it's just something you want to do.

Just jet it go. Put the VIN in the database with that photo and walk away from it. There's another one just like it around the corner.

[blackmoon]

Since when does logic weigh into these decisions?
I missed that memo.

So let's think about this is purely economic terms. Let's say the car is a primo 2L and worth $15k, and is insured for $15k. Ins co pays out $14k after deductible, you're down $1k. Let's say you can buy it back for $1k, now you're down $2k.

How much work, time, money, parts, effort, repairs are you going to have to do to that thing to get it back to a $15k level? Can you completely strip and restore a 914 2L for $13k just to break even?

Maybe you're bored, maybe you look forward to doing that and it's a hobby, but how much in repairs and parts are you going to spend out of pocket? I mean you're talking major disassembly here, maybe even an engine overhaul, just to get it back to a level of what you could buy if you took that $14k and bought another one. And then you have a car on a salvage title.

I cannot even imagine the value of taking on such a project, unless it's just something you want to do.

Just jet it go. Put the VIN in the database with that photo and walk away from it. There's another one just like it around the corner.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[dakotaewing]

Since when does logic weigh into these decisions?
I missed that memo.

So let's think about this is purely economic terms. Let's say the car is a primo 2L and worth $15k, and is insured for $15k. Ins co pays out $14k after deductible, you're down $1k. Let's say you can buy it back for $1k, now you're down $2k.

How much work, time, money, parts, effort, repairs are you going to have to do to that thing to get it back to a $15k level? Can you completely strip and restore a 914 2L for $13k just to break even?

Maybe you're bored, maybe you look forward to doing that and it's a hobby, but how much in repairs and parts are you going to spend out of pocket? I mean you're talking major disassembly here, maybe even an engine overhaul, just to get it back to a level of what you could buy if you took that $14k and bought another one. And then you have a car on a salvage title.



I cannot even imagine the value of taking on such a project, unless it's just something you want to do.

Just jet it go. Put the VIN in the database with that photo and walk away from it. There's another one just like it around the corner.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Sorry Guys, but as an insurance adjuster I disagree. If the owner wants to get another car of the same make and model and the insurance company will allow the owner to keep the car based on state laws. It all depends as well on the salvage value that the insurance company has determined for the car. In his case, the salvage lots most likely are flooded as well, and it will be 6 months before the salvage yards are anywhere close to handling business normally. This affects directly how the insurance companies are able to handle these vehicles when it comes to flood losses. If the new/used replacement car needs parts, the owner already has a resource. Of course, this is also implying that the owner has properly gotten the flooded car dried out in short time frame. In my experience, there are several factors to be considered...

Take lots of pictures of the car before doing anything! Document the water line, and how high the water was on the car. Use a tape measure, and show the tape measure in the photographs. Make sure the photographs are well lite, and sharp (in focus). Provide the adjuster photos of the car prior to the damage, otherwise the adjuster will use average values unless you have an agreed value policy. Stated value policies are useless. The adjuster most likely will use a evaluation from Mitchell, or one of the other valuation providers. If you don't agree on the evaluation amount, request a copy of the evaluation, and ask them to provide photographs of all the comparibles that they use. Most likely they can't, and you will be able to use that fact to your advantadge when negiotiating a settlement.

[rick 918-S]

Fresh water and limited electrical. Piece of cake. With all the repop parts available now I would save it. I will be sending a 914-6 to the e-coater soon. I will document the prep on the site. If it was a solid car save it.

[mepstein]

So let's think about this is purely economic terms. Let's say the car is a primo 2L and worth $15k, and is insured for $15k. Ins co pays out $14k after deductible, you're down $1k. Let's say you can buy it back for $1k, now you're down $2k.

How much work, time, money, parts, effort, repairs are you going to have to do to that thing to get it back to a $15k level? Can you completely strip and restore a 914 2L for $13k just to break even?

Maybe you're bored, maybe you look forward to doing that and it's a hobby, but how much in repairs and parts are you going to spend out of pocket? I mean you're talking major disassembly here, maybe even an engine overhaul, just to get it back to a level of what you could buy if you took that $14k and bought another one. And then you have a car on a salvage title.

I cannot even imagine the value of taking on such a project, unless it's just something you want to do.

Just jet it go. Put the VIN in the database with that photo and walk away from it. There's another one just like it around the corner.

Mr. insurance man, can I have $50K to restore my $20K car.
Well, that's how much it will cost if you hand it over to a shop for a restoration. Do the restoration yourself? Why shouldn't insurance pay for a complete repair? Did you pay for DIY insurance? Like I said, my vote is to take the money and use it to buy a comparable car to what you had.

[EdwardBlume]

Nothing is impossible. Just don't roll it outside and let it sit for 5 years.

[dakotaewing]

So let's think about this is purely economic terms. Let's say the car is a primo 2L and worth $15k, and is insured for $15k. Ins co pays out $14k after deductible, you're down $1k. Let's say you can buy it back for $1k, now you're down $2k.

How much work, time, money, parts, effort, repairs are you going to have to do to that thing to get it back to a $15k level? Can you completely strip and restore a 914 2L for $13k just to break even?

Maybe you're bored, maybe you look forward to doing that and it's a hobby, but how much in repairs and parts are you going to spend out of pocket? I mean you're talking major disassembly here, maybe even an engine overhaul, just to get it back to a level of what you could buy if you took that $14k and bought another one. And then you have a car on a salvage title.

I cannot even imagine the value of taking on such a project, unless it's just something you want to do.

Just jet it go. Put the VIN in the database with that photo and walk away from it. There's another one just like it around the corner.

Mr. insurance man, can I have $50K to restore my $20K car.
Well, that's how much it will cost if you hand it over to a shop for a restoration. Do the restoration yourself? Why shouldn't insurance pay for a complete repair? Did you pay for DIY insurance? Like I said, my vote is to take the money and use it to buy a comparable car to what you had.

You can have $50k minus your deductible if you have an agreed value policy for $50K. Otherwise, you would be lucky to get your $20K.
The point was, long term, you might be financially better off buying the car back for salvage value. That does not mean you are required to repair the car -

[ThePaintedMan]

Greg, that's awful advice for folks trying to actually save these cars. Some of you folks with more seniority in life seem to still see them as disposable, but a lot of us from my generation want to save them (we just dont have the money to buy them all up right now). This car is salvageable without ridiculous work/money. Save it, and those if us buying them later on thank you for it.

[GregAmy]

Greg, that's awful advice for folks trying to actually save these cars. Some of you folks with more seniority in life seem to still see them as disposable, but a lot of us from my generation want to save them (we just dont have the money to buy them all up right now). This car is salvageable without ridiculous work/money. Save it, and those if us buying them later on thank you for it.

It's not "awful" advice, it's practical advice from someone who understands the time, effort, and money it would take to "salvage" this car back to its original condition; time, effort, and money that needs to be done immediately to at least stop any further damage from water intrusion and subsequent corrosion (the clock is already ticking...I can hear the rust creeping from way up here...) Water can siphon and wend its way into some strange places...40-yr-old electrics, gauges, motors that were already on the edge now have to be replaced. The interior will mostly have to be replaced. The chassis will need to be completed stripped, drained, and flipped 7 ways to Sunday to ensure all water is clear from all little crevices, and all of those areas cleaned, stripped, repainted or coated. The engine will have to be rebuilt (you want to tell a potential buyer the engine was flooded and all you did was popped the plugs and changed the oil?) New clutch and axles. All bearings and seals replaced.

And then, as noted, you have a formerly-flooded car on a salvage title, which will never be worth as much as it was before.

Is it possible to restore this car? Of course it is! Anything is possible with enough time and money. But is it practical? I don't think so. No matter how nice this car may have been, a 2L 914 is not as rare as hen's teeth.

Hey, maybe this car had a special place in this guy's heart; honeymoon car, daughter learned to drive stick in it, whatever. His collection indicates he may have the cash flow and money is less important to him. In that case, good for him I hope he saves it. But do you have $30k to toss into a $15k car? Not me, brother.

This car does not have to be crushed; if disassembled immediately it could be a good source of parts for the rest of the fleet. Or, maybe a good candidate for a stripped out race car project (Prod?). If it were me I'd not let it get crushed; I'd buy back the salvage, park it on my lift, and open a 914 used parts eBay store... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[rick 918-S]

Greg, that's awful advice for folks trying to actually save these cars. Some of you folks with more seniority in life seem to still see them as disposable, but a lot of us from my generation want to save them (we just dont have the money to buy them all up right now). This car is salvageable without ridiculous work/money. Save it, and those if us buying them later on thank you for it.

It's not "awful" advice, it's practical advice from someone who understands the time, effort, and money it would take to "salvage" this car back to its original condition; time, effort, and money that needs to be done immediately to at least stop any further damage from water intrusion and subsequent corrosion (the clock is already ticking...I can hear the rust creeping from way up here...) Water can siphon and wend its way into some strange places...40-yr-old electrics, gauges, motors that were already on the edge now have to be replaced. The interior will mostly have to be replaced. The chassis will need to be completed stripped, drained, and flipped 7 ways to Sunday to ensure all water is clear from all little crevices, and all of those areas cleaned, stripped, repainted or coated. The engine will have to be rebuilt (you want to tell a potential buyer the engine was flooded and all you did was popped the plugs and changed the oil?) New clutch and axles. All bearings and seals replaced.

And then, as noted, you have a formerly-flooded car on a salvage title, which will never be worth as much as it was before.

Is it possible to restore this car? Of course it is! Anything is possible with enough time and money. But is it practical? I don't think so. No matter how nice this car may have been, a 2L 914 is not as rare as hen's teeth.

Hey, maybe this car had a special place in this guy's heart; honeymoon car, daughter learned to drive stick in it, whatever. His collection indicates he may have the cash flow and money is less important to him. In that case, good for him I hope he saves it. But do you have $30k to toss into a $15k car? Not me, brother.

This car does not have to be crushed; if disassembled immediately it could be a good source of parts for the rest of the fleet. Or, maybe a good candidate for a stripped out race car project (Prod?). If it were me I'd not let it get crushed; I'd buy back the salvage, park it on my lift, and open a 914 used parts eBay store... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

So your telling me no 914 even drove down a dirt road in a rain storm with the targa top off? Interior soaked silt and mud every place then had to have the interior pulled, pressure washed and steam cleaned? There may not even be any water in the engine. And ya, it's a hobby. How many rusted hulks have you seen pulled down to the shell and brought back to life on this forum? And were talking about a little dirty water

[GregAmy]

So your telling me no 914 even drove down a dirt road in a rain storm with the targa top off?

Are you really comparing the extent of damage of this totally-submerged, flood-damaged Porsche 914 to that of driving down a dirt road in the rain with the top off...?

I think you know better.

If you would buy a flood-damaged 914 for a grand and spend the money and time to completely restore it to its prior condition...more power and best of luck to you. And I truly mean that, because someone has to do it or they're all gone.

But not me, brother, there's other fish in the...er uh, well on dry land.

- GA

[sixnotfour]

keep the Porsche tractor

[gms]

the one thing I forgot to consider is the reduction in value if the car has a salvage title (in IL anyway), but if you are building for yourself to keep it wouldn't matter.

[mepstein]

Greg, that's awful advice for folks trying to actually save these cars. Some of you folks with more seniority in life seem to still see them as disposable, but a lot of us from my generation want to save them (we just dont have the money to buy them all up right now). This car is salvageable without ridiculous work/money. Save it, and those if us buying them later on thank you for it.

Should the car be restored - yes!
Should the current owner be the one to go through the restoration or take the insurance money and buy another one - you already know my answer.

But yes, i do hope someone will save it.

[JoeDees]

There's another odd option here nobody has mentioned: Work with the adjuster and agree to a "repair value" $100 less than total. It keeps the title clean, the car on the scene, and allows the owner to sell it cheap to someone who wants to repair it.

[dakotaewing]

There's another odd option here nobody has mentioned: Work with the adjuster and agree to a "repair value" $100 less than total. It keeps the title clean, the car on the scene, and allows the owner to sell it cheap to someone who wants to repair it.

My experience is that is not legal when it comes to flood cars...
(It does happen occasionally on near total losses when the vehicle has been in an accident.)
Each state has it own criteria. If water is over the engine, and into the electrics,
the adjuster is legally required to deem the vehicle a flood total and brand the title as such in most states. Additionally, under your suggestion, the insured could come back to the insurance carrier and state that the car is not completely repaired after they have spent the initial sum on repairs. The carrier would be required to total the car, and the insured can still owner retain the vehicle for the salvage value. In this scenario, the insurance company has paid to repair the car, and the insured gets a check for the vehicle minus the salvage value.

This happens in extremely rare cases, but the carriers are very unhappy about it, and the adjuster might be looking for a new employer.

[rick 918-S]

With rising values in the 914 market I don't agree there is a reduction in value factor. Anyone ever own a 914 10-15 years ago and have it totaled out because of a dented fender with a repair cost around $3500.00? Should a rusted out 914 needing structural repairs be salvage stamped?