OT Anyone here ever patent something?, where to start? Options

[GaroldShaffer]

With all the different products we have here, I am sure someone has got a patent. Got a few ideas that I think I would like to patent. I have been reading some websites but would like to get some first hand input from someone that has done this process before.

Thanks!

[larryp]

I am a patent attorney. What do you need to know?

[GaroldShaffer]

Larry, sent you a somewhat detailed email. I don't want to give away my idea's just yet (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) some general questions on cost of the patenting process. Some basic do's and dont's. How do you start the process?

[airsix]

QUOTE (larryp @ Apr 26 2005, 07:59 AM)

I am a patent attorney.  What do you need to know?

Guys, with the exception of the information that needs to be protected, please don't take this conversation off-line! I think a lot of people here would be interested in this topic.
Can I add to the question? Larry, what should a person like Gerold have prepared before going to an IP attorney such as yourself? What leg-work does he need to have completed? What aspects of the process are ok for DIY and what parts should be left to a professional? Do you consult with an attorney in the very beginning? At some point in the middle? Only toward the end?
-Ben M.

[Jake Raby]

Larry, I have some patent questions also.. I sent you a PM

[airsix]

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Apr 26 2005, 09:02 AM)

Larry, I have some patent questions also.. I sent you a PM

AARRRRRGGGG!!!! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/headbang.gif)
-Ben M.

[bd1308]

QUOTE (airsix @ Apr 26 2005, 11:13 AM)

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Apr 26 2005, 09:02 AM) Larry, I have some patent questions also.. I sent you a PM AARRRRRGGGG!!!! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/headbang.gif) -Ben M.

would somebody PLEASE INFORM US

[Mueller]

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Apr 26 2005, 10:16 AM)

would somebody PLEASE INFORM US

have you thought that it's none of your business what the conversation/subject matter is about??? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

[bd1308]

what if maybe possibly "I" might like to be informed as well....?

[Mueller]

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Apr 26 2005, 10:48 AM)

what if maybe possibly "I" might like to be informed as well....?

none of your damn business (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif) ...hence the PM feature (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[ss6]

OK, I'm not a patent attorney, but I know one (LarryP), and have a few patents.

Getting a patent pretty much boils down to a prior-art search, ie proving your idea is novel, ie not already covered in any other patent or knowledge in the public domain, then writing an effective patent application, submitting it to the patent office, addressing any concerns from the patent examination(s), ie amending the application, appearing before the examiner, etc.

Once you receive the patent, you have to defend it, ie search for and pursue any infringement, otherwise you may lose your exclusive rights.

The "price of admission" for a patent used to be anywhere from $7 - 15K, but today's mileage may vary. Prior-art searches have become much easier thanks to online databases, but the key to the kingdom is a set of claims in the application that give you the broadest possible coverage of your ideas, and you're not going to get that out of someone's mail-order workbook.

BTW, a patent is not a winning lottery ticket, companies will not come beating down your door offering megabucks. You'll have to "shop" your patent around if you don't plan producing the item yourself. If an idea is good, a *scrupulous* company will likely first assign their engineers to look for a work-around (this is where your claims earn their keep), or they will assign their attorneys to look for other flaws (ditto).

Some ideas are better off being kept as trade secrets, if the amount of disclosure required by the patent application teaches too much about the idea, or if detecting infringement is too difficult. Certain embedded software algorithms would be an example.

The US Patent Office has an extensive website, most patents are on line and searchable. It would be in your best interest to first take advantage of the USPTO's search capability and look for anything remotely related to your idea before putting any money on the table...

For a great introduction, check out their FAQ's:

http://www.uspto.gov/main/faq/

Did I do OK Larry???

[GaroldShaffer]

QUOTE (airsix @ Apr 26 2005, 08:40 AM)

QUOTE (larryp @ Apr 26 2005, 07:59 AM) I am a patent attorney.  What do you need to know? Guys, with the exception of the information that needs to be protected, please don't take this conversation off-line! I think a lot of people here would be interested in this topic. Can I add to the question? Larry, what should a person like Gerold have prepared before going to an IP attorney such as yourself? What leg-work does he need to have completed? What aspects of the process are ok for DIY and what parts should be left to a professional? Do you consult with an attorney in the very beginning? At some point in the middle? Only toward the end? -Ben M.

First, Larry thank you for offering to answer my, now our, questions. I don't want to take $$ out of your pocket for free legal advise so any insite you can give me / us is greatly appreciated

Ben great questions, pretty much teh same thing I asked offline but with more details on my ideas. I will post what I find out. I have no worries about people "using" my ideas, and I will post them here once I know all the legal stuff that I need to do first.

[airsix]

QUOTE (Mueller @ Apr 26 2005, 09:36 AM)

have you thought that it's none of your business what the conversation/subject matter is about??? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

I typed a big long response and then decided it was too much information. Summary: There are likely many here who could use some "What to do before you see a patent attorney" advice. If that conversation goes off-line we miss out. We don't want to know the secrets. Just some advice on managing our own. When is it time to see an attorney? What should we be ready to provide to the attorney? That sort of thing.

-Ben M.

[GaroldShaffer]

I have checked the website John spoke about. Found things simular to my ideas but for different umm... applications I guess is the term I would use (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif)

For me right now it is the cost to get a patent that might be an issue. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/dry.gif)

[Mueller]

you could be like our company..."Patent Pending" stickers are pretty cheap (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

We have a few products that we just couldn't justify the cost of a patent, we only sell a few a year and the market is so small that someone would be crazy to knock it off and try to sell them. I can see an end user of the product reproducing it for themselves, but good luck saving any money since only 1 item is usually used at the fabs.

We've also kicked ourselves in the @ss for not spending the 5K to get a patent and have a competitor rip off our design...we've lost about $100K in revenue...nothing we can do about it and if there was, too expenisive to deal with it...oh well is all we can say...

Our company used to specialize in reverse engineering parts (I still do a few small items), we'd check for patents and wouldn't touch anything we knew had a patent. There had a been a few items that I figured out how to make to get around the patent. What is interesting is that most of the time the individual parts didn't have patents, but the assemblies did, so we'd make and sell the parts for the customer to put together......

[ken914]

I have some patents on technical inventions and can tell you a couple of things.

1) It will cost more than you plan to patent it.
2) It will cost even more than that...
3) There are ongoing costs to keep it patented. They are more than you think also.
4) Getting it patented will take a lot of your time
5) You are going to have a very hard time licensing or selling you patent, no matter how good it is.
6) Nobody (including companies) like change. So a patent may just assure everyone that your idea will stay out of the public domain.
7) Having a great idea, patenting it, are turning it into a product are VERY hard. After you do all that remember that NOBODY knows about it and in order to sell them one you will first have to educate them.

I have patents on some ideas that were and still are revolutionary and could change the way a lot of prototyping is performed, but no one cares. The task of educating people to a new way of thinking is much harder than you think and much harder than selling existing and familiar technology.

Be a big pesimist on this issue and MAYBE you will break even.

Good luck.

[redshift]

I agree with Ken here.


M

[DipShit]

Dealing with the US Patent Office is like dealing with Congress. Prepare yourself for a long drawn out battle. Research before you spend the money to apply and keep the money mongering attorney's the hell away from it.

[morph]

We looked into it at one time, and It wasn't worth it for us.

HIEDI

[Mueller]

Inventors Network......

In case you have thought about using one of those Inventor/Patent companies you see on late night TV or in the back of some mags., you might want to read this:

inventor/patent scams....as seen on TV (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)