Where is the HorsePower breakpoint?, For adding flares Options

[boxsterfan]

As I sit here pondering my 914 restore, I was wondering what others thought the breakpoint was for adding flares to a 914 vs staying narrow body?

Seems like at a certain horsepower, you are going to need some more rubber for the road. What's the general thought? Is it around 175HP (~2.7L /6 ?), 190HP (~3.0L /6 ?), 220HP (3.2L /6 ?) or more?

I recognize that there are also some considerations with tire choices also. Even on the narrow body car, you may have to roll the fender just a bit to get a bigger tire on there just for the sake of selection/choice of manufacturer tires.

[colingreene]

I think that it has a lot to do with expectations of how the car should behave and how you drive it.

[Mark Henry]

For a street car I don't really think there is a HP "must be flared" breakpoint, just a "I want / I don't want" personal taste point.

Racing is a different ball of wax.

I'm staying narrow body with a 3.0, 10:1CR twin plug, GE60, webers....going with 5 bolt fuchs 205/65-15 tires.
I don't plan to race my car.

[SirAndy]

I run 225 tires on the street which one could easily fit under a narrow body car.

I gots me some 300+ horses ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Steve]

If you drive nice it's not a problem. My issue was throttle induced oversteer. Just upgrading to a 2.7 six with webers, caused very dangerous throttle induced oversteer with my car. I only had this problem when giving it to much gas in a corner
Curious if a limited slip differential would of helped?? Instead I cut off the rear fenders and installed 993 16" rims with 245 series tires, that and a stiffer roll bar up front, helped a lot. I bought a set of fiberglass Gt rear flairs and riveted them on. Now even with modest throttle in a corner, the car will just slide sideways versus spinning out.

[mgp4591]

Scotty?? Any reply?
He's running a GM LS type V8 with probably over 300hp and gobs more torque all mated up to a Boxster 6 spd. Narrow body. It rotates enough on mountain roads to make you require a change... of shorts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

[raynekat]

I'll be doing the "narrow body" thing.....no flares with a 2.7 240hp flat six.
Like some have said....it's not the horsepower....it's how you want the car to look.

[sixaddict]

Several have come close to saying it......to me from a performance perspective track or ax car needs flares to get enough rubber to really make it go once you hit a healthy HP....otherwise you are giving up time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[mepstein]

We drop a lot of built 3.2's and 3.6's into early narrow body 911's. It really does depend how you plan to drive the car. Sometimes a little tire slip can be fun. Today's tires offer a lot more grip than years ago. If you decide you need flares, you can always add them on later. I wanted at least one 914 with flares because I've always liked the look.

[914dave]

I wrestled with this for quite a while. For a street car it's about the style you want. Like driving a Sunbeam Tiger or TVR. Lots of hp for the rubber. But I contacted Campbellcj ,
914R project and asked him what he thought. He ran narrow body for a long time with a lot of track time before he switched to wide body. He said the traction coming out of the corners and braking was noticably improved. Made the car more stable in extreme conditions. Send him a pm. He's a good guy to talk to. It pushed me to flares. My car will be street and regular autocross. Good luck.
BTW I'm running a US spec 3.2 with a Steve Wong chip. 235 +/-

[Mark Henry]

The flip side to this question is that even with a 120hp type 4, that you plan to seriously AX or take to the track, you likely would want to add flares and wider tires.

You are forgetting it's a package as a whole, to get better handling for racing you need to add stiff springs, torsion and sway bars, corner balance, stiffen the tub, roll bars, etc....all this stuff is what makes it handle, but it also can make it ride like a truck.
Great for the track but it would really suck on a long distance run and a wife/GF is definitely not going to like it.
Also with flares and wide tires your gas milage will go down.
Adding flares and wide tires without the suspension work is just fluff, a personal taste addition to make it look pretty. Tires alone will not make it handle better.

Another consideration to me is the overall condition of the car, adding flares to a car that's had tons of rust/crash repairs is no big deal. But I'd have to think long and hard about adding flares to mint car or real /6.

[Dave_Darling]

IMHO there is not HP level where flares are required for street driving.

For the track, your very very very first step is to read the rule book until you understand it. That is also your second, third, and fourth step. Sometimes flares are not allowed, and sometimes they are only allowed with other changes that you may or may not want to make, or only allowed in "cubic dollar" classes where you will be a moving chicane without dumping serious money into the car.

Mark's point about 120 HP is also spot-on; you can probably improve your times going with wider rubber even if you have a modest amount of HP, but you have to do other stuff to properly take advantage of it.

--DD

[MoveQik]

I ran my 3.2 with a narrow body for 9 years and never felt the "need" for more rubber. I just ran really good tires. I eventually wanted the look of wider meats on the back so I did the cut & pull routine on my rears. Now I run 16x8's with 225's. Unfortunately, the Falkens I have now are not anywhere near the tire that my narrower BFG's were. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

I'm doing my best to wear these out so I can go back to BFG's (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[Mike Bellis]

I have flares and 9" wheels with 245/50/16 tires. I find my 300+ hp can quickly exceed the friction coefficient of my tires...

[Andyrew]

~295 sticky tires on the rear. In first I can spin the tires easy when the boost comes on even at my ~275hp lowest setting. Second gear which is from 45-80mph it will get a little light footed at over 14psi, probably about 350hp,

On the track I have to be very gentle out and through any corner.


Please note this is with an open diff. LSD is coming shortly.
But that just means more boost (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[tomrev]

I think it's 98% about looks for most folks; remember, as you add the flares, you suddenly have to add the fat tires/wheels, and a bunch of un-sprung weight. As an autoX'er you now have a much wider car to fit thru gates, etc. I equally like the look, both narrow, and flared, but left my 3.L six, with 240hp, and my current 3.5 Honda six narrow bodied, with seven's and 205's, mostly because I like the clean look, and with the six, even with a lot of racing, it was only a problem trying to put power down exiting very narrow corners. On the street, there are too many other limiters, like surface sand/gravel unexpected shit , cops, speed limits (some times, any way), other traffic. Even with 300hp, if you find you are out of shape too often in a street car, I think you need to work on your technique, or try to find a track, where most of the limiters are removed, and then see if it's grip alone you need, or more talent.

[boxsterfan]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm still mulling the /6 vs the 2270 /4 for my car. I had intended to stay narrow body because I like the look. For the /6, I'd probably be looking at a 3.0L or 3.2L.

[Mark Henry]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm still mulling the /6 vs the 2270 /4 for my car. I had intended to stay narrow body because I like the look. For the /6, I'd probably be looking at a 3.0L or 3.2L.

Love the six, it's what I'm doing...but damn expensive to do right. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

I hope the wife never finds all the bills (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[MoveQik]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm still mulling the /6 vs the 2270 /4 for my car. I had intended to stay narrow body because I like the look. For the /6, I'd probably be looking at a 3.0L or 3.2L.

I too am a fan of the narrow body :-) If you want to maintain that look(for the most part) you can cut and pull the rear fenders to get wider tires. There are several ways to do it but this is what I came up with.

[Jetsetsurfshop]

My car is a track only car. Narrow body with a 2258cc/4. My HP is about 130 at the wheels. I believe were right at the breaking point. She's so fun to wheel around Sebring that I can't imagine a better car for me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)
With that said, I to was thinking about installing a 6. Our race series, Chumpcar, just allowed 6 cylinder cars to enter. We could be a to ten car for sure.
I just think of what can of worms that opens up. I own flares, just never installed them. I love the narrow look too. What to do....
This stuff keeps me up at night. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)