Considering buying a 914, Considering buying a 914, need advice Options

[Ken4444]

Hello all!

I am skilled at general automotive mechanic and restoration work but want to get an idea what I might run into if I buy a 914. My goal would be have a stock-looking 914 and enjoy driving it around town.

1) What are the common (perhaps expensive) problems with a flat 4 914 ? (possible examples: electrical wiring flaky, MFI broken, transmission needs expensive rebuild, ignition system poor, oil leaks, heater doesn't work)

2) What are the common fixes/swaps/upgrades performed, but while keeping a generally stock appearance and function to the car? (possible examples: replace MFI with carburetors, new/modern/aftermarket ignition system, upgraded coil springs, upgraded brake parts)

3) Other than checking for rust, what problems should I look for when buying a 914?

4) Should I assume that owning a 914 is going to be a continual money drain?

5) Do VW flat 4 engines cost any more or less to rebuild than any other engine? (I realize this is a very broad question). Is there something odd about these engines that a typical engine machine shop can't handle?

6) Are there any common parts that I am likely to need that are either hard to find or really expensive?

Thanks!

[GeorgeRud]

Rust is your main problem and should be carefully checked for. Especially check the jack points along the sides (best to remove the outer longitudinal covers), on the battery support and the area under and in front of the battery (known as the 'hell hole').

The car's mechanicals are pretty simple compared with today's cars, so most things can be done by a home mechanic. Parts are available but are getting more expensive over time. Check with Pelican Parts to get a rough idea of part prices.

If you can find one, try to get a '73 or '74 914 2.0 as they're the most desirable and should hold their value over time. Good luck on your search!

[brant]

Flat 4 motors do cost more to rebuild than a traditional inline watercooled motor.

I have lots of friends with similar era cars... example bmw 2002 cars. they can not believe what we 914 owners spend on rebuilds

price out parts for a british mgb motor rebuild, or any similar era water cooled car.

the "affordable" nature of rebuilding a "VW" motor has changed in the last 10 years as part quality has degraded and Type 4 parts have become more expensive (at least ones that are a quality part)

[stevend914]

Check the engine number to be sure the car has a 914 engine. A '73 or '74 2.0 engine will have a GA prefix & '75 or '76 2.0 engine will have a GC prefix. p914.com has a listing of vin & engine numbers.

[Ken4444]

Check the engine number to be sure the car has a 914 engine. A '73 or '74 2.0 engine will have a GA prefix & '75 or '76 2.0 engine will have a GC prefix. p914.com has a listing of vin & engine numbers.

Thanks to everyone for the replies. I appreciate the info. Great stuff. This gives me some research to do.

How reliable or unreliable are the Bosch fuel injection systems?

[BillC]

How reliable or unreliable are the Bosch fuel injection systems?

As long as they are maintained and adjusted properly, the 914 fuel injection systems are quite reliable. Normal maintenance is pretty simple -- replace fuel filter & lines as needed, inspect and replace vacuum lines as needed, check fuel pressure and ignition timing periodically, etc. Sometimes diagnosing hiccups can be a bit frustrating, but there's a ton of info and support on this site, which really helps.

[SirAndy]

3) Other than checking for rust, what problems should I look for when buying a 914?

Besides rust, you need to look for corrosion, iron oxide, hydrated iron(III) oxides Fe2O3·nH2O, iron(III) oxide-hydroxide (FeO(OH), Fe(OH)3 and weak spots where the metal has been dissolved ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[Ken4444]

Great continued information, thanks again.

I looked around Pelican Parts for 30 minutes and I guess I'm not surprised. Some of the critical parts are much more expensive than the same parts for a 70's/80's Jeep. Parts like ignition and clutch disk are reasonable. Brake calipers? Ouch! Carburetor kit? wow! It was a good lesson though.

Ultimately I am reminded that when you buy a used car, you're just buying a bunch of parts, hopefully at a volume discount.

[Rand]

LOL Andy. Yup, spell it any way you can, it all boils down to the same damned crunchy flaky thing.
Damned nemesis :shaking stick: (or icon I can't remember)

[mzalanka]

The calipers of which you speak on PP are in no way comparable to your random Jeep part. Those are Eric Shea's art (mod and generally great guy around here). Google "PMB Performance" and see why they cost what they do (IMO and that of many others, a bargain).

The general answer to your question is that these are 40 year old, ungalvanized Porsche-branded sports cars. When you buy in, you buy in to everything: a new MIG welder, unending D-jet/L-jet/carb misery, a seat adjuster breaking off in your hand, World arguments about when Big Ugly Bumpers will become desirable, and, hopefully, in the end, an amazing driving experience.

Good luck and (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

[zach914v8]

Hello all!

I am skilled at general automotive mechanic and restoration work but want to get an idea what I might run into if I buy a 914. My goal would be have a stock-looking 914 and enjoy driving it around town.

1) What are the common (perhaps expensive) problems with a flat 4 914 ? (possible examples: electrical wiring flaky, MFI broken, transmission needs expensive rebuild, ignition system poor, oil leaks, heater doesn't work)

2) What are the common fixes/swaps/upgrades performed, but while keeping a generally stock appearance and function to the car? (possible examples: replace MFI with carburetors, new/modern/aftermarket ignition system, upgraded coil springs, upgraded brake parts)

3) Other than checking for rust, what problems should I look for when buying a 914?

4) Should I assume that owning a 914 is going to be a continual money drain?

5) Do VW flat 4 engines cost any more or less to rebuild than any other engine? (I realize this is a very broad question). Is there something odd about these engines that a typical engine machine shop can't handle?

6) Are there any common parts that I am likely to need that are either hard to find or really expensive?

Thanks!

Welcome, another Houston dude.


1. Common problem is rust, under the battery and in the longs under the doors. Really rusty cars can fold up.

2. I am a bit biased but a common performance upgrade is a v8.

3. I am just going to put rust here again.

4. A money drain? Depends what your plans are. Spending more to get a good one is much better money wise in the long run. My car when I got it was basically a rust free running shell. No interior or trim, lots of small pieces missing. The nickle and dime stuff kills you. (Plus with the growing value of these cars, most stuff costs more than nickles and dimes.)

5. Air cooled Porsche motors are money. I sold my 2.0 and was able to build my whole v8 engine and have money left over.

6. No worse than another 40+ year old European car.

7. <-- I added this... V8 and 6 swaps cost money! Don't be fooled. Swaps are expensive. If you decide to go that way do your research.

I don't know if you even interested in seeing a swapped v8 car but since you live in Houston maybe you would like to meet up and we can talk cars, and you can see what a money pit looks like.


Zach

[mgp4591]

3) Other than checking for rust, what problems should I look for when buying a 914?

Besides rust, you need to look for corrosion, iron oxide, hydrated iron(III) oxides Fe2O3·nH2O, iron(III) oxide-hydroxide (FeO(OH), Fe(OH)3 and weak spots where the metal has been dissolved ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

Some of these conditions are accelerated by the presence of a NaCl and H2O mixture both in the air close to the coasts and its use in colder climates on the roads.

[Ken4444]

Welcome, another Houston dude.

Thanks!

1. Common problem is rust, under the battery and in the longs under the doors. Really rusty cars can fold up.

Got it. Will check for rust. I know the evils of rust, how it can be improperly covered up, and what it truly takes to eliminate it. (Jeep people have the same concerns)

2. I am a bit biased but a common performance upgrade is a v8.

If I were to pull the trigger on a 914, my goal would be to keep it generally stock except for areas where aftermarket parts were better for not a great deal more money. I can totally see how people get pulled into engine swaps and even pushing the 2.0 to 140+ HP, but I'd have to keep the expenses minimal for the car.

4. A money drain? Depends what your plans are. Spending more to get a good one is much better money wise in the long run.

That sound like solid advice, and that's why I'm even here. I found a 914 for under $5000 that looks to have a lot of restoration work done to it. All I would need to do is install the (used, not rebuilt) engine/trans which is sitting on a pallet. Unfortunately I'd have to trailer the thing to Houston which would be a fun day trip.

My hesitancy is that I know how it will pan out: I will get the thing running and driving, and then I'll immediately have to start working on the brakes. Tires, belts, and fluid changes are important too. Then I will notice that there's an oil leak somewhere so that will have to be investigated. Then some electrical thing will quit working, so I'll spend a week tracking that down. Then the engine will start running weird and that will lead to some carburetor and ignition system exploration. Might as well throw in the Pertronix electronic ignition and a Blaster II coil. Probably have to rebuild the carburetor at some point (owner says this 2.0 has a carb). One year and $1500 later I will probably have it running great, but with enough miles on the thing I'm sure more issues will crop up.

I don't know if you even interested in seeing a swapped v8 car but since you live in Houston maybe you would like to meet up and we can talk cars, and you can see what a money pit looks like.

Ever go to Houston Coffee and Cars? That's one possibility.

[Ken4444]

The calipers of which you speak on PP are in no way comparable to your random Jeep part. Those are Eric Shea's art (mod and generally great guy around here). Google "PMB Performance" and see why they cost what they do (IMO and that of many others, a bargain).

PMB certainly looks like the one to get. After all, does anyone want to go cheap on brakes? Break out another thousand bucks.

The Jeep (old Jeep) guys are buying reman calipers at $35 each and they last a long time. So I'm spoiled.

I can see going the route of rebuilding one's used 914 calipers though.

..hopefully, in the end, an amazing driving experience.

That's what I'm after. I love to drive. I had a VW Jetta for a few years and while not exotic, it was really fun to drive with turbo and a 5 speed. I swore I'd never buy another German car because the Jetta was not built to last because all of the plastic parts under the hood, but I figure if I buy something as old as I am then it doesn't count.

[KELTY360]

My hesitancy is that I know how it will pan out: I will get the thing running and driving, and then I'll immediately have to start working on the brakes. Tires, belts, and fluid changes are important too. Then I will notice that there's an oil leak somewhere so that will have to be investigated. Then some electrical thing will quit working, so I'll spend a week tracking that down. Then the engine will start running weird and that will lead to some carburetor and ignition system exploration. Might as well throw in the Pertronix electronic ignition and a Blaster II coil. Probably have to rebuild the carburetor at some point (owner says this 2.0 has a carb). One year and $1500 later I will probably have it running great, but with enough miles on the thing I'm sure more issues will crop up.

...and your point would be?

A well sorted 914 is so much fun you'll forget about all that other stuff. These cars are all about the driving experience.

BTW, if it only has one carb, don't rebuild it! You'll want to dump it and get duals, or find a complete d-jet system to retrofit. Spend a lot of time searching this site and you'll learn everything you need to know.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[Ken4444]

...and your point would be?

..to try to talk myself out of the purchase (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

A well sorted 914 is so much fun you'll forget about all that other stuff. These cars are all about the driving experience.

BTW, if it only has one carb, don't rebuild it! You'll want to dump it and get duals, or find a complete d-jet system to retrofit. Spend a lot of time searching this site and you'll learn everything you need to know.

That's the other thing... short of buying a $12 or $15K+ 914 that's already had the major kinks worked out, this would be a project car and a money drain. Of course until I get one and start digging into it and learning, I won't know how much of a drain it could be..

[HansJan]

Ken4444,
I live in Sugar Land.
Bought one last spring on Craigs-list. It cought in fire (on my first drive).
Have been working on it ever since. Getting close to get it on the road again.

Please do not purchase it unseen.

Btw: this is a great support group. Im going to post a question later tonight, and I bet you that I will have a solution within an hour.

Good luck,

[Coondog]

That's the other thing... short of buying a $12 or $15K+ 914 that's already had the major kinks worked out, this would be a project car and a money drain. Of course until I get one and start digging into it and learning, I won't know how much of a drain it could be..

I searched for two years to buy a 914 that had been well taken care of, and yes I paid $12,000. Always cheaper to buy a well sorted 914.

[Ken4444]

I live in Sugar Land.

Hello there. I'm just up the road from you over in the west side of town.

Bought one last spring on Craigs-list. It cought in fire (on my first drive).

Any idea what caused the fire?

Please do not purchase it unseen.

Absolutely. Even driving to another city to see a car means that I'm potentially saving a lot of money and problems if I see obvious warning signs in person.

[iankarr]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

A few answers...well, my take anyway.

1) Rust. There's always more than you can see. Also, lots of 914s suffer from a "hot start" issue. The electrical circuit driving the starter is crazy long and was marginal when new. After 40+ years, the additional heat resistance in the wiring can prevent the starter from engaging. Many owners have resorted to adding a solenoid in the starter circuit as a fix. Not expensive, but common. Oil leaks are also common. Usually from the pressure sender area and the pushrod tubes.

2) The most common "mod" is probably ditching the FI for a dual carb setup. There are pluses and minuses to doing that. Search is your friend there.

3) The presence of rust can't be overstated. Definitely make sure the longitudinal frame members (longs) are solid before you buy. Or get ready to pony up thousands or lots of time (or both) to fix.

4) 914s aren't any more "draining" than any other collector car. If you're like me, the car is only "done" when you sell it.

5) Most machine shops aren't really familiar with type IV engines. You'll need to do your homework or ship parts to the known experts.

6) There's nothing crazy unusual, but bumpers and bumper tops aren't cheap.

All this said, these cars are totally addictive. Definitely the most fun I've had driving and wrenching!