 Money and motor options, What is a realistic budget and parts list |
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| thelogo |
 Mar 13 2017, 09:50 PM
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#1
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Senior Member  Group: Retired Members Posts: 1,510 Joined: 6-April 10 Member No.: 11,572 Region Association: None  |
1st off the engine im going for in no way needs to
Be optimised for performance (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) What is the best combo for just cool reliable running In socal heat . Im trying to stay clear of d jet (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bootyshake.gif) So carbs or i like cb performance f.i kit but know little actually about it . What Crank Pistons Rods Cam Cyclinder s Fuel delivery Etc should i be putting together and what kinda budget windfall Should i be prepared for . I know its a sickness but cant be that expensive? I will use a machine shop to build the motor That have extensive experience with type 4 So i know thats gonna cost me major $ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif) Talk to me about proven engine combinatios (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) |
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| thelogo |
Mar 13 2017, 09:54 PM
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#2
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Senior Member Group: Retired Members Posts: 1,510 Joined: 6-April 10 Member No.: 11,572 Region Association: None |
Im looking for air cooled type 4
And basically the exact opposite of this Attached image(s)  
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| Mueller |
Mar 13 2017, 10:25 PM
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#3
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 17,146 Joined: 4-January 03 From: Antioch, CA Member No.: 87 Region Association: None 
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I think McMark does the 2056 for about $5k , don't think that includes the fuel delivery.
So figure another grand for for fuel and spark. |
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| Dave_Darling |
Mar 13 2017, 10:29 PM
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#4
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914 Idiot Group: Members Posts: 14,982 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Silicon Valley / Kailua-Kona Member No.: 121 Region Association: Northern California
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A sock 1.7 should hold up just fine under darned near any circumstances you throw at it. If you want to avoid D-jet, stick some Dells on it. Maybe drop the compression to the lower 73 CA-only spec (about 7.6:1) so you don't have to run premium.
You said it wasn't about performance.... --DD |
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| thelogo |
Mar 13 2017, 10:47 PM
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#5
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Senior Member Group: Retired Members Posts: 1,510 Joined: 6-April 10 Member No.: 11,572 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Mar 13 2017, 09:29 PM)  A sock 1.7 should hold up just fine under darned near any circumstances you throw at it. If you want to avoid D-jet, stick some Dells on it. Maybe drop the compression to the lower 73 CA-only spec (about 7.6:1) so you don't have to run premium. You said it wasn't about performance.... --DD Thats pretty much the setup im runnin now 1.7 d,jet not running correctly, may just be f.i related But Do i rebuild a separate 1.7 and swap in Wait till my 1.7 breaks down then rebuild it It it even worth it building a fresh 1.7 or does that cost the same as a 2056 ? |
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| thelogo |
Mar 13 2017, 10:54 PM
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#6
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Senior Member Group: Retired Members Posts: 1,510 Joined: 6-April 10 Member No.: 11,572 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Mueller @ Mar 13 2017, 09:25 PM) I think McMark does the 2056 for about $5k , don't think that includes the fuel delivery. So figure another grand for for fuel and spark. Thats a pretty doable budget i think As long as its cheaper than a / 6 six |
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| Chris914n6 |
Mar 13 2017, 10:56 PM
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#7
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Jackstands are my life. Group: Members Posts: 3,316 Joined: 14-March 03 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 431 Region Association: Southwest Region |
Depends on what you are starting with.
66mm or 71mm crank? 1.7 block/heads or 1.8/2.0 b&h? new or used carbs? You can hit $10k pretty quick if you veer far enough away from stock. I find a stock 2.0 pretty decent. I'd ask the shop what they like and what they might have stashed in storage. "socal heat" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) My high today was your summer high average. |
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| Larmo63 |
Mar 13 2017, 10:57 PM
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#8
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,264 Joined: 3-March 14 From: San Clemente, Ca Member No.: 17,068 Region Association: Southern California |
Look for a complete 2.0 core, tear it down to a long block and take it down to Jorge at EMW.
He can give you options, he's easy to work with, and you can do the tins, fan shroud, powder coating & painting yourself. He takes CASH too. I made payments to him. My $.02 |
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| struckn |
Mar 14 2017, 08:45 AM
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#9
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,069 Joined: 9-November 11 From: South Central York Pennsyvania Member No.: 13,764 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Most people won't get what I'm saying but here's where I'm at. In tune with KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID, and I'm talking about me, not anyone else, we all have are own ideas, but I will say some get in over their heads trying to do it their self and dreaming of major improvements in a short period of time.
I have a '74 1.8 that came with a SIMPLE Single 2V Weber 32/36 Carb. Five years ago it dropped a Valve Seat so I took it to Translog GT for a complete mechanical inspection and overhaul resulting in installation of a new Carb Cam, (2) replacement Heads splitting the case new Bearings, Valve Seats, Fuel Pump, SS Fuel Lines, pulling the Trans axle New Clutch, Bearings, Shift linkage Bushings, Heat Billows replacement wiring and everything else that was needed to make it as dependable and as problem free as possible. In the last five years I have not had to make any adjustments, or replace any parts, other then an Oil and filter. The cost was around $5K with the understanding it would be a few months to allow them to get it done when convenient to the operation of their shop, and a pay as it goes terms. Documentation of Time and Material provided. I'd have no concern driving it every day, or cross county.......except my 'Ol body in the car would probably fall apart before anything on the car would. |
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| mepstein |
Mar 14 2017, 09:02 AM
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#10
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914-6 GT in waiting Group: Members Posts: 19,258 Joined: 19-September 09 From: Landenberg, PA/Wilmington, DE Member No.: 10,825 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
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Another option is a WTB request. Every year, many guys on this site convert to a six and sell their four. Many times the engine is in great running condition. It might not happen right away but it always happens. Dion just sold his. Ran like a top, looked great but he got 6 fever. I brought home a good running, complete with FI and tin, 2.0 from Virginia for a local 914 owner for $1,000. That was a no brainer.
When we were at Octeenerfest, Bob told me that half of the participants were not on 914world. I bought a great car from CA for $2,500 from the 914 yahoo group. So as big as 914world is, don't be afraid to reach out to other sources. |
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| mgphoto |
Mar 14 2017, 09:39 AM
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#11
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"If there is a mistake it will find me" Group: Members Posts: 1,339 Joined: 1-April 09 From: Los Angeles, CA Member No.: 10,225 Region Association: Southern California |
QUOTE(thelogo @ Mar 13 2017, 09:47 PM) QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Mar 13 2017, 09:29 PM) A sock 1.7 should hold up just fine under darned near any circumstances you throw at it. If you want to avoid D-jet, stick some Dells on it. Maybe drop the compression to the lower 73 CA-only spec (about 7.6:1) so you don't have to run premium. You said it wasn't about performance.... --DD Thats pretty much the setup im runnin now 1.7 d,jet not running correctly, may just be f.i related But Do i rebuild a separate 1.7 and swap in Wait till my 1.7 breaks down then rebuild it It it even worth it building a fresh 1.7 or does that cost the same as a 2056 ? sort out the d-jet your car should be worth more with FI than a single carb, which is the cheapest way to go. |
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| Tom_T |
Mar 14 2017, 10:01 AM
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#12
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TMI.... Group: Members Posts: 8,318 Joined: 19-March 09 From: Orange, CA Member No.: 10,181 Region Association: Southern California
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Since you're in SoCal ....
I'm not sure exactly when they were supposed to close, but you might try getting with Ron at FAT Performance in Orange before he retires, to both advise you on what to build, & to build it if there's enough time before he hangs up the wrenches. FAT Performance has been building T-IVs since the came out in the late 1960s - for both street & competition - & many/most of the other engine builders learned from him. If he can't build it for you, then he may be able to recco the best shop. Tuttle's in LA has been doing VW engine rebuilds for decades. A 2.0 with Euro heads would give you a boost of HP & TQ over the stock GA 2.0 or 1.7, but you may need to bump to mid-grade or premium gas. I don't know that going to carbs will solve your problem, as the D-jet EFI was a great system for those who knew how to tune them properly. You my try Bill Brewster in South OC (San Clemente IIRC) or Der Buggy in Garden Grove to see if they can sort out your D-jet issue, before jumping to a new motor. Bruce Stone/bdstone may also have a shop in the IE who knows T4 motors & D-jet. PS - I think the optimal bore/stroke max on a 1.7 without compromising heat & driveablity is 1911cc. Good Luck! Tom /////// |
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| Dave_Darling |
Mar 14 2017, 10:58 AM
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#13
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914 Idiot Group: Members Posts: 14,982 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Silicon Valley / Kailua-Kona Member No.: 121 Region Association: Northern California
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QUOTE(thelogo @ Mar 13 2017, 09:47 PM) Do i rebuild a separate 1.7 and swap in Wait till my 1.7 breaks down then rebuild it It it even worth it building a fresh 1.7 or does that cost the same as a 2056 ? I'd say wait until yours is on the way out. Or get a spare (core 1.7s should be cheap!) and build it as time and budget allow. A 1.7 should be more reliable than a 2.0 or a 2056. They tend to be less stressed, have more robust rod journals, have heads that are less prone to cracking, and have less demanded of them. --DD |
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| thelogo |
Mar 14 2017, 04:41 PM
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#14
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Senior Member Group: Retired Members Posts: 1,510 Joined: 6-April 10 Member No.: 11,572 Region Association: None |
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)
Sound advice d.d Im happy with a 1.7 Not happy with djet . |
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| Mueller |
Mar 14 2017, 04:59 PM
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#15
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 17,146 Joined: 4-January 03 From: Antioch, CA Member No.: 87 Region Association: None
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QUOTE(thelogo @ Mar 14 2017, 03:41 PM) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) Sound advice d.d Im happy with a 1.7 Not happy with djet . Could be operator error (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Any fuel system be it a single carb or even a $5,000 Motec system can give you fits if not in tip top shape and if you don't know how to work on it, you could spend $10K on a new motor with modern EFI or dual carbs and be miserable if not tuned correctly or you miss a simple vacuum line. I'd go thru all the basic troubleshooting of the FI and ignition 1st as well as a full tune up. |
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| thelogo |
Mar 14 2017, 06:40 PM
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#16
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Senior Member Group: Retired Members Posts: 1,510 Joined: 6-April 10 Member No.: 11,572 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Mueller @ Mar 14 2017, 03:59 PM) QUOTE(thelogo @ Mar 14 2017, 03:41 PM) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) Sound advice d.d Im happy with a 1.7 Not happy with djet . Could be operator error (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Any fuel system be it a single carb or even a $5,000 Motec system can give you fits if not in tip top shape and if you don't know how to work on it, you could spend $10K on a new motor with modern EFI or dual carbs and be miserable if not tuned correctly or you miss a simple vacuum line. I'd go thru all the basic troubleshooting of the FI and ignition 1st as well as a full tune up. Yeh anything is possible But just to clarify i really never turn wrench s On my cars Im the driver " they told me to get in the car an drive an i could drive " I leave the tune ups and maintenance to a professional air cooled guy with 40years experience. But he refuses to deal with djet So there i am (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) |
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| thelogo |
Mar 14 2017, 06:42 PM
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#17
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Senior Member Group: Retired Members Posts: 1,510 Joined: 6-April 10 Member No.: 11,572 Region Association: None |
[quote name='Mueller' date='Mar 14 2017, 03:59 PM' post='2464197']
[quote name='thelogo' post='2464191' date='Mar 14 2017, 03:41 PM'] (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) Sound advice d.d Im happy with a 1.7 Not happy with djet . [/quote] Could be operator error (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Any fuel system be it a single carb How do you fuck up a single carb (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) |
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| Mike D. |
Mar 14 2017, 07:03 PM
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#18
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OK, It runs now, and pretty good too! Group: Members Posts: 1,445 Joined: 3-January 03 From: Santa Clarita, Ca Member No.: 85 Region Association: None
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QUOTE(thelogo @ Mar 14 2017, 05:42 PM) You don't, it fucks you up. They are POS. And lose the mechanic that won't work on your car. Take it to Leamon in Tajunga. PM him, he's HeelToe914 |
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| Mueller |
Mar 14 2017, 08:09 PM
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#19
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 17,146 Joined: 4-January 03 From: Antioch, CA Member No.: 87 Region Association: None
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[quote name='thelogo' date='Mar 14 2017, 05:42 PM' post='2464233']
[quote name='Mueller' date='Mar 14 2017, 03:59 PM' post='2464197'] [quote name='thelogo' post='2464191' date='Mar 14 2017, 03:41 PM'] (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) Sound advice d.d Im happy with a 1.7 Not happy with djet . [/quote] Could be operator error (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Any fuel system be it a single carb How do you fuck up a single carb (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) [/quote] Easy, they are already not the best solution for our motors, but they can be made worse by tweaking the settings, some people shouldn't be allowed to own a screw driver! Lot's of car problems are blamed on the fuel system when in fact the problems could be poorly adjusting valves or ignition problems. |
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| thelogo |
Mar 14 2017, 09:50 PM
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#20
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Senior Member Group: Retired Members Posts: 1,510 Joined: 6-April 10 Member No.: 11,572 Region Association: None |
Do or dont get me wrong djet is great
If they start makeing all new parts id buy them and go go go (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yellowsleep[1].gif) With the exception of guys who shouldnt own a screwdriver Carbs are universally understood by mechanics all across the world and the guys that know djet are either too old or retired to fix/ fiddle with it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) Im hopeing for a hail mary with this cb performance f.i kit But if it ends up carbs so be it |
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