Help me find the time bomb....., Rocker arm shaft fell out....found two nuts and one wavy washer |
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Help me find the time bomb....., Rocker arm shaft fell out....found two nuts and one wavy washer |
second wind |
Jul 26 2017, 12:50 PM
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#1
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 851 Joined: 30-December 10 From: Los Angeles, California Member No.: 12,543 Region Association: Southern California |
Here is a stresser.....my '73 2.0 lost power and during diagnosis found out rocker arm shaft had come loose and fallen out. No damage to anything except a groove worn into the pushrod two inches in from the valve cover side. I found the two nuts but only one wavy washer. Car runs with no noises or any odd sounds but I hate to button it up without finding the missing washer. Changed oil and nothing on super magnet plug. Any ideas where it might be?? Thank you!!
gg |
Ferg |
Jul 26 2017, 12:57 PM
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#2
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,948 Joined: 8-January 03 From: Boulder CO Member No.: 116 Region Association: None |
May be time to buy or borrow a bore scope. I'd pull the sump screen, cut open the filter. Use the bore scope to look around near the sump.
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Valy |
Jul 26 2017, 01:35 PM
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#3
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,671 Joined: 6-April 10 From: Sunnyvale, CA Member No.: 11,573 Region Association: Northern California |
1. I would assume the cut in the pushrod is from the retaining wire that either released and moved when the rockers shaft released or was incorrectly mounted to begin with.
2. It might be that the shaft released because you were missing that wavy washer, that's there to prevent the nut to untie under vibration. 3. The only place that washer can go is in the pushrods tubes. There's no way for it to reach the combustion chamber without a big hole in the head. Also it can't pass to the crank side. |
Spoke |
Jul 26 2017, 04:12 PM
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#4
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Jerry Group: Members Posts: 6,977 Joined: 29-October 04 From: Allentown, PA Member No.: 3,031 Region Association: None |
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914sgofast2 |
Jul 26 2017, 05:11 PM
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#5
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 613 Joined: 10-May 13 From: El Dorado Hills, CA Member No.: 15,855 Region Association: None |
3. The only place that washer can go is in the pushrods tubes. There's no way for it to reach the combustion chamber without a big hole in the head. Also it can't pass to the crank side. So to find the washer the pushrod tubes should be pulled on that side? I agree with Spoke. The washer is probably down inside one of the pushrod tubes and getting bounced around by a lifter. Pull all the pushrod tubes on the side of the engine where the nuts and washers came off and you will probably find the missing washer on top of one of the lifters. |
TheCabinetmaker |
Jul 27 2017, 07:00 AM
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#6
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I drive my car everyday Group: Members Posts: 8,300 Joined: 8-May 03 From: Tulsa, Ok. Member No.: 666 |
And you didn't post a pic of this? Why does that not surprise me?
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second wind |
Jul 27 2017, 08:15 AM
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#7
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 851 Joined: 30-December 10 From: Los Angeles, California Member No.: 12,543 Region Association: Southern California |
And you didn't post a pic of this? Why does that not surprise me? And I thought I didn't know how to add a picture.....thank you for pushing me to higher level of computer excellence Attached image(s) |
Dave_Darling |
Jul 27 2017, 09:07 AM
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#8
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914 Idiot Group: Members Posts: 14,981 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Silicon Valley / Kailua-Kona Member No.: 121 Region Association: Northern California |
I love that the wear mimics the shape of the end.
--DD |
second wind |
Jul 27 2017, 09:58 AM
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#9
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 851 Joined: 30-December 10 From: Los Angeles, California Member No.: 12,543 Region Association: Southern California |
Well.....???? I haven't found the missing washer yet.....maybe it doesn't even exist. Did the wire do this? I made a magnet probe with a N52 magnet and can't get even a sliver of metal on it.....pushed it down the push rod tube almost a foot....nuthin'.....I am all ears you guys....
gg |
second wind |
Jul 27 2017, 03:36 PM
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#10
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 851 Joined: 30-December 10 From: Los Angeles, California Member No.: 12,543 Region Association: Southern California |
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914sgofast2 |
Jul 27 2017, 03:47 PM
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#11
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 613 Joined: 10-May 13 From: El Dorado Hills, CA Member No.: 15,855 Region Association: None |
Well.....???? I haven't found the missing washer yet.....maybe it doesn't even exist. Did the wire do this? I made a magnet probe with a N52 magnet and can't get even a sliver of metal on it.....pushed it down the push rod tube almost a foot....nuthin'.....I am all ears you guys.... gg I suggest you look in all 4 of the pushrod tubes on that side of the engine, not just the tube with the damged pushrod. The missing washer did not necessarily fall down inside the tube wth the damaged pushrod. It probably bounced around inside the valve cover a bit. |
second wind |
Jul 27 2017, 03:53 PM
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#12
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 851 Joined: 30-December 10 From: Los Angeles, California Member No.: 12,543 Region Association: Southern California |
1. I would assume the cut in the pushrod is from the retaining wire that either released and moved when the rockers shaft released or was incorrectly mounted to begin with. 2. It might be that the shaft released because you were missing that wavy washer, that's there to prevent the nut to untie under vibration. 3. The only place that washer can go is in the pushrods tubes. There's no way for it to reach the combustion chamber without a big hole in the head. Also it can't pass to the crank side. Hello Valy...your post gave me hope that the washer, if it exists, is closeby and can't destroy my engine. What the heck is the retaining wire anyway? Seems like the culprit to me. Can I just cut it out? Thank you, gg |
euro911 |
Jul 27 2017, 03:56 PM
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#13
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Retired & living the dream. God help me if I wake up! Group: Members Posts: 8,846 Joined: 2-December 06 From: So.Cal. & No.AZ (USA) Member No.: 7,300 Region Association: Southern California |
... or maybe someone failed to install the washers in the first place ... and possibly the reason the rocker arm shaft let go? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
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iankarr |
Jul 27 2017, 04:06 PM
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#14
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The wrencher formerly known as Cuddy_K Group: Members Posts: 2,472 Joined: 22-May 15 From: Heber City, UT Member No.: 18,749 Region Association: Intermountain Region |
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
That's my bet as well. BTW I have a bunch of 7mm and 8mm wavy washers if you need. |
mgphoto |
Jul 27 2017, 04:28 PM
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#15
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"If there is a mistake it will find me" Group: Members Posts: 1,337 Joined: 1-April 09 From: Los Angeles, CA Member No.: 10,225 Region Association: Southern California |
Wire when oriented correctly keeps pressure on the push rod tubes and prevents them from vibrating out.
You need them and you need them installed correctly. |
second wind |
Jul 27 2017, 04:31 PM
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#16
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 851 Joined: 30-December 10 From: Los Angeles, California Member No.: 12,543 Region Association: Southern California |
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) That's my bet as well. BTW I have a bunch of 7mm and 8mm wavy washers if you need. Thank you for the offer cuddyk....I found some new ones at local parts store. I can't imagine why there isn't a more fool proof way of securing these critical nuts. I will be using new 8.1 nuts whatever that is worth....hardness level I think. Thanks again, gg |
euro911 |
Jul 27 2017, 04:45 PM
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#17
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Retired & living the dream. God help me if I wake up! Group: Members Posts: 8,846 Joined: 2-December 06 From: So.Cal. & No.AZ (USA) Member No.: 7,300 Region Association: Southern California |
I had a Porsche 912 (616) motor that a PO had built, and when I pulled the heads to check the top-end internals, found that he 'forgot' to reinstall wave washers and new o-rings in various places. Don't discount the worth of wave (spring) washers ... the do the trick just fine.
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Dave_Darling |
Jul 27 2017, 05:28 PM
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#18
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914 Idiot Group: Members Posts: 14,981 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Silicon Valley / Kailua-Kona Member No.: 121 Region Association: Northern California |
Yes, the wires can absolutely cause that damage. The pushrod body is aluminum, the wire is steel. One of those things is harder than the other--guess which one wears? We've seen it dozens of times.
The cure is to install the wire properly. The lower parts of the wire should rest on the "shoulders" of the pushrod tube. They should not stick down into the tube. The wire is important, as it keeps the tube from sliding out as the engine grows and shrinks. (As it does with heat.) Unless you're Elyutt, in which case about six tubes of orange RTV is the perfect solution. They didn't really put many extra parts in these engines. (Follow Elyutt's lead if you want the same sort of abuse he gets for that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ) --DD |
Valy |
Jul 27 2017, 08:35 PM
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#19
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,671 Joined: 6-April 10 From: Sunnyvale, CA Member No.: 11,573 Region Association: Northern California |
1. I would assume the cut in the pushrod is from the retaining wire that either released and moved when the rockers shaft released or was incorrectly mounted to begin with. 2. It might be that the shaft released because you were missing that wavy washer, that's there to prevent the nut to untie under vibration. 3. The only place that washer can go is in the pushrods tubes. There's no way for it to reach the combustion chamber without a big hole in the head. Also it can't pass to the crank side. Hello Valy...your post gave me hope that the washer, if it exists, is closeby and can't destroy my engine. What the heck is the retaining wire anyway? Seems like the culprit to me. Can I just cut it out? Thank you, gg It's a spring wire, kind of zigzag shape, that retains the pushrod tubes in place. The wire is hold in place by the rockers shaft supports. |
Valy |
Jul 27 2017, 08:42 PM
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#20
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,671 Joined: 6-April 10 From: Sunnyvale, CA Member No.: 11,573 Region Association: Northern California |
BTW, the magnet trick might not work since the tubes are metal and the lifters are metal as well as the washer. The magnet will stick to anything in there and the washer may also get stuck at the end of the pushrod. You have to take all 4 tubes out and check inside and on the lifters as well. If you can show a picture of ALL 4 pushrod, including edges, we might see a clue of where the washer hides.
But, as I initially said, it might be that there was no washer and that's why the nut came off. |
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