Affect of mods on resale value Options

[bbrock]

I have a couple decisions to make soon on my restoration that could affect resale value of the car. So I'd be interested to hear opinions.

The car is a numbers matching (I'm pretty sure - need COA) '73 2.0L so on paper, very desirable. But it is currently a rust basket case, but becoming less so every day. I'm trying to restore it to a very high standard but it seems silly to think such a Frankencar would ever be a concours contender. I certainly have no interest showing it. But I am kind of a fanatic about originality with a few exceptions. I'm keeping the car very near original with a few "bolt-on" mods that are easily reversible like euro signal lights, reproduction parts for budget (no thousand dollar OEM interior light going in here), etc. The biggest mod is that the engine has been converted to carbs, including cam. But I still have the original FI and may start working on restoring that down the road. I'm contemplating a couple of mods that won't be so easy to roll back but I don't want to sacrifice potential resale value of the car. Below are the mods and my twisted rationale for doing them:

Delete Fender Warts - this is the biggie. I hate them and the warts I have are in bad shape. I hate to think of spending money to replace something I think is ugly and Porsche didn't really intended to be on the car. My rationale is that no warts and euro lenses ARE original in European markets. But if I sold the car, would that kill the originality premium?

Late style fuel pump location A PO relocated the fuel pump to inside the steering rack and did a crap job of it. I recently picked up a 75-76 fuel pump blister with the intention of cutting the firewall to relocate the pump the way the factory did. Makes sense to me. It's a factory improvement, right? But what would a buyer looking for an original car think?

Black anodized trim My car is performance group, but not appearance group so it has black bumpers which I like. Decades ago, I lightly sanded the scratched up window and targa trim and painted it satin black. I really like the look and am thinking of having them black anodized as part of the restoration. Or would it be smarter to go back to bright anodized to preserve resale value? Seems like this would be an easy one to reverse if someone wanted to.

I have no plans to sell this car but never rule it out. Just curious how far a person can deviate from dealer delivered original before the car loses that "all original premium"... And realizing that such things are impossible to predict.

[Freezin 914]

I think the most important thing is to do what you like. It's your car (at this time). With that all being said in my personal opinion, any mods should be very well done. Well planned/ engineered. In the long run if everything is done to very high standards and none of the mods are to flashy/ loud (color). Most buyers will pay up for a well executed well sorted car. Good luck with your decision! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif)

[Tom_T]

The rustoration itself - if done properly, won't detract as a "resto-mod" - that's just what resto of older rust prone cars is about. Andy T./SoCalAndy resurrected a basket case 914-6 in a way that was period correct & he has the ability to put his original 2L -6 back in, so it hasn't suffered any value loss from being a rust bucket - more like amazement from folks who see the start point.

The key is to do nothing irreversible, if you want to be able to benefit from an original car value.

So things like ability to put it back to EFI, using those 914 logo cover plates instead of welding up the F-side marker holes, having the chrome/shiny aluminum/SS trim bits to put back on in the future, for the black you want - are all things that are reversible.

FYI - your PO didn't just "wing" that FP relo. That fuel pump relocation to up behind the steering rack cover on 70-74 914s 4/6 is the factory Service Bulletin location, so I'd say just clean it up, & use the 70-74 3-port pump with new hoses, clamps, mount ring, isolating rubbers & other bits (AA sells a FP relo kit with the parts originally supplied with the factory kit). It's less work for you, less cutting to create the access hole/cover, & less to change the plumbing from the original 3-line to later 2-line, etc. - & the 3 port pump was a better & more durable pump.

Many of us 70-74 owners have that factory relocation done - either back in the day (mine was done in 76), or in the time since. Being a FSB work, it won't detract from originality nor value, but will save you from vapor lock!

Dollars & percentages are all over the place on this now, as they will be in the future, for your "whenever" time comes - but the values across the board will be going up. So mistakes now, will cost more value then than now. When I did an informal survey on 914s color changed from OE with another 914 correct color, I found that the color changed ones seemed to sell at 25-50% of a correctly restored to original, & the other more serious mods which you're contemplating may be as much or more of a devaluation.

The more desirable 914 sub-models will always be more valuable, & therefore more important to maintain the best value by staying with the originality. So the factory versions of: 914-6, 74 914-2.0 LE, 73-74 914-2.0, 75-76 914-2.0 are probably always going to be worth keeping as or easily back-dated to original. If yours is a factory 73 2L, then it falls in that group. And as time goes on, supply drops & interest increases, even the 1.7s & 1.8s will come up & be well worth saving as originals.

If that 2L motor is the original, then you could also do a carb swap into another core 2L engine, & put the OE motor back to original with EFI & proper cam etc. then store it, if you still want to run the carbed substitue motor - maybe at 2056 or something a tad more than stock HP/TQ.

That said - hey, it's your car, your time, effort & money - so you have to make you happy - then just swallow the consequences for changes.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[Chris914n6]

If you want restoration value at the end, don't do anything that can't be undone or replaced easily.

[bbrock]

FYI - your PO didn't just "wing" that FP relo. That fuel pump relocation to up behind the steering rack cover on 70-74 914s 4/6 is the factory Service Bulletin location, so I'd say just clean it up, & use the 70-74 3-port pump with new hoses, clamps, mount ring, isolating rubbers & other bits (AA sells a FP relo kit with the parts originally supplied with the factory kit). It's less work for you, less cutting to create the access hole/cover, & less to change the plumbing from the original 3-line to later 2-line, etc. - & the 3 port pump was a better & more durable pump.

I should clarify here. I wasn't complaining about the location of the pump. It was the quality of the work. It may have been a nice factory relocation job at one time, but by the time I got it, it was two rusty sheet metal screws barely holding the pump on and a rat's nest of crimped on butt splices and chaffing wire. My interest in relocating the pump to the 75 on location is just that I think Not that one location is better than the other from a vapor lock standpoint. I do like the idea of the little door to service pump and filter without getting under the car. It's also the kind of detail project that I like. But not at the expense of originality. The 3-port plumbing is something to think about too. I'll be stripping out all the fuel lines and replacing (this car still has plastic lines). And I'll be running a non-stock pump for the carbs for now. But... I might be going back to stock FI some day. Honestly, if I had started the engine rebuild today instead of 30 years ago, it wouldn't be a question, I'd be restoring the FI. But back then, all the cool kids were doing it.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Anyone have any pics of a reversible side marker delete? I'm having a hard time picturing anything I'd be satisfied with. I forgot to mention one of my twisted arguments for deleting. It IS reversible, you just need a hole saw and drill bit. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

Lot's to think about. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[IronHillRestorations]

Will your mods effect value, except for the fuel pump; yes. How much? That's the $64,000 question.

I personally don't think that the changes you propose will significantly impact a rusted out and welded up car, unless you plan to get it to a high level of restoration.

Your personal preference might eliminate some buyers at the time of sale, but I'd say that the main thing is that you have it the way you like it. If you foresee selling it two years after you get it done, that's another story, but if you are going to hang on to it forever, go for it.

[Larmo63]

The front "wart" lights ARE ugly, but they came on thousands of U.S. bound cars. I think the car looks much better without them, and down the road, mine will be deleted. They do give you a bit more light on the front of the car, so there is a safety factor. Many cars have been returned to Europe which sport the American side markers and many over there just leave them on. As for the black trim, I actually don't like it on a stock(ish) looking car. On a custom car it is okay, heck LEs came from the factory with it.

I'm doing a /6 911 conversion on my car which was a pretty original, fully optioned '73 2.0L. IDGAS what anybody thinks about me dropping in 190 HP of true Porsche grunt.

After I'm dead, somebody else can change it back if they like.

Go for what makes you happy.

[arne]

I think this question is more appropriate for me as someone who is refreshing my car as a project, but plans to sell it not long after it is done. Not looking to make a profit, this is a retirement hobby for me. But I do need to break even so I can afford to do something else in the future. So resale is something I think about, both value and marketability. I don't want to do mods that might limit the car's audience, nor hurt its value. But since it is never going to be a concours car, some mods are probably ok.

In my case, I have done two of the three you mentioned. I deleted the warts and relocated the fuel pump. I don't think either of those mods will hurt me when time comes to sell. I thought about black trim, since the windshield trim that was on the car was damaged. But I decided that might make it either harder to sell or be a haggling point on price. So I bought new silver trim.

But if you are not looking to sell it soon, do what you personally like. Don't worry too much about "value", make the car your own.

[RickS]

Took a 71 rust and accident free appearance group 1.7 and wanted it to be a sleeper with the following mods:

Conversion to 3.0 carbed 6
Front oil cooler
Full Elephant polybronze suspension
Widened rear fenders to accommodate 7" Fuchs
Full 5 lug conversion
911S front calipers
Euro front and rear turn signals
H4 100/80 relayed lights
Quad gauge
Hidden Engine cut-off switch
Solenoid operated trunk release with emergency manual release
Later model backpad
Vintage Seats Nurburgring driver seat and movable passenger seat
Side shift with bronze bushings
6" and 7" Fuchs
Porsche back panel (blacked out) with remote trunk open
Fogs replaced with driving lights rewired to use as daytime running lights
Tunnel mounted fire extinguisher
LED brake/running and strobing third brake light
Genuine 6 heat exchangers and oil tank
Warts changed from orange to clear to better blend with silver paint.
Console delete
Cup holder added to extinguisher mount
High torque starter
GT style engine grill/s
Fittipaldi stearing wheel
Coco mats

So how does my value now compare to stock with 65K miles?

[IronHillRestorations]

73/4 2.0's are recognized as the highest value 4 cyl cars, so you did the right thing with your 71 Rick (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[JeffBowlsby]

All mods effect value. Most are not upgrades and devalue the car because they are too personalized. Those that do add value usually cost more than the value they add.

The warts are a safety requirement for the USA cars, so that your front end can be seen from the side in the dark.

Not aware that the fuel pump relocation was a FSB upgrade...can I see documentation of that? The FSB was to insulate the fuel lines and redirect heat from the passenger side HE.

It's your car but they are not making them anymore. Buying a modified car is buying someone else's "improvements". Whether a future buyer wants them is anyone's guess and the value cannot be known until their money is in your pocket.

[bbrock]

Great info guys. I'm not too worried about the trim since that's easy to roll back. I think I've decided not to do the pump relocate. I still think the FSB reloc to steering rack was a quickie solution to a problem, whereas the trunk reloc is the more polished solution. But it isn't worth sacrificing originality.

I think it is clear the majority of people prefer these cars without warts. So I can't imagine deleting them reduces the number of potential buyers. But it sounds like it will turn off the relatively few buyers who are willing to pay that extra premium for originality. But will they be willing to pay that premium anyway if there are a lot of easily reversible things like replacing repro lenses and domestic carpet to make it factory fresh? In other words, is the premium only for cars that are just a good detailing away from a concours competition, or does it include cars that need a fair amount of parts swapping to get to pure original? I am trying to restore this car to a very high level - restoring factory plating and finishes, stickers, etc. I just won't be including expensive OEM parts if there are 914rubber quality and priced items available.

Tom mentioned the engine. One other mod from original I've made was to install Mahle OEM euro spec pistons and cylinders. I would not think that would affect the originality value of the car at all, but maybe I'm wrong? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Rick, my car is also metallic silver and I'm digging your clear side marker treatment. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) I'd still prefer those markers be gone completely, but they do blend much better with the car. Might be a tolerable compromise. Did you ever have any luck shaving them to lower profile? And do you have amber bulbs inside them?

I think Ricks car is interesting. It seems to me that the market rewards for cars taht are original, and as one deviates from that originality, the value decreases. But at some point, the level of modification takes the car into a different market where value has little to do with originality and is driven by the quality and nature of the mods. I would think the value of the best of those cars could surpass the value if they were restored to original. Just my guess.

[bbrock]

Okay, between the great info here, and what Tom posted on the other thread, I've made some decisions. No cutting the firewall for the pump, and the ugly-ass warts will stay, but I will copy Rick's clear lens idea. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif)

Moving on. I'm shooting for a respectable #2 Hagerty condition car with this resto. Crossing my fingers I can pull it off. So some other questions as I move forward related to value:

Paint - my understanding is that 2-stage paint IS original for the metallic colors. Correct? Please be so (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hands.gif)

Dealer accessories - What about adding options like fog lights, rear window defrost, and tinted glass that don't show on on the COA? Any negative effect on value? Well, my windshield will be after market anyway because I live in Montana where windshields go to die (our '06 Honda is on its third windshield now). No point in spending $$ on OEM glass there. But my side curtains have some scratches so I may eventually change them out in the distant future.

[VaccaRabite]

IMO -
unless you are making the car to sell (flipping) make the car what YOU want.

If you want to remove the warts, remove them.

If you want a superfly 80's paint job, 383 small block stroker, fibeglqass body, etc., make that shit happen.

If you want a concourse car, clean and buff to your hearts content.

Few to none of us who are not making the car with intent to flip it will ever see a positive net with a 914, not for a long time yet anyway. We have to get into black with smiles per mile.

Zach

[Mark Henry]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

If you're only after resale value then yes keep it original.
If you're after smiles on your face do whatever floats your boat.

[bbrock]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

If you're only after resale value then yes keep it original.
If you're after smiles on your face do whatever floats your boat.

I totally agree with what you guys are saying and I love modified cars. My problem is that I'm in a real PIA place for what floats my boat. I tore this car apart over 30 years ago with the intent of restoring it with several mods to my idea of how the cars might be if they were still being made (in the mid-'80s). These included completely de-chroming the car, modernized center console, leather interior, etc. The project went into deep hibernation and my priorities have changed.

Now I just want to experience a new and original 914. I've owned 3 of these cars but all had tired suspensions and tin worms in the bodies by the time I got them. Even so, there were miles of smiles. I just want a car that is like it was when it rolled off the dealer's lot. My problem is that I think the purest versions of the Porsche designers vision rolled off of European dealer's lots.

No plans to sell the car, but it might happen some day. And because the car I want will be very close to original, I'm just trying to figure out the cost:benefit of the mods I'd like. Is shaving the warts worth a $5K hit in value to me? Probably not. I don't hate them that much. Is it worth a $500 hit in value? You bet! And to my mind, this car with euro pistons and signals is more original without the warts. But because of where the car was originally sold, the market doesn't seem to agree.

One last thing on the history of this car. I bought it in 1985 for $500. Ran great but the car was sidelined by the hell hole. I spent $150 on a junkyard inner suspension console and bottle of welding gas, and put the car back on the road for a few years of the most enjoyable driving I've ever done. Rust, oil leaks, and chronic EFI trouble convinced me to tear it down for a complete rebuild. Got the bottom end of the engine done and then life happened. Now I'm bringing it back to life and only have about $3K total invested in it at this point, including the original purchase. If I don't F it up, it is looking like I can get through this resto under $10K. It could be a rare resto that doesn't go upside down on investment. Which is part of the reason I have resale value on my mind. But no, profit is not a motivation here. I want to be a little conscious of how my decisions will impact my ability to recoup expenses down the road though.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[VaccaRabite]

Just remember - (and this is only true when you start the restoration for real...)

Take the anticipated cost and the anticipated time to complete. Multiply both by Pi. This will get you into your ballpark if you follow the usual bell curve of completed restorations...

I really don't want to think about the money I have into my car over the years. Its way more then 10K. Probably close to 20K... for a car I'd probably be able to sell for $10K-14K.

Zach

[kgruen2]

Just remember - (and this is only true when you start the restoration for real...)

Take the anticipated cost and the anticipated time to complete. Multiply both by Pi. This will get you into your ballpark if you follow the usual bell curve of completed restorations...

I really don't want to think about the money I have into my car over the years. Its way more then 10K. Probably close to 20K... for a car I'd probably be able to sell for $10K-14K.

Zach

Well said. I have a lot more in mine than I ever thought I would spend. Pi sounds about right. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

[Larmo63]

Nobody really cares that much about the warts not being there as long as it's done right.

[mepstein]

Nobody really cares that much about the warts not being there as long as it's done right.

I agree. They were a USA add-on. Not part of the original design or used on ROW cars.