Affect of mods on resale value Options

[bbrock]

Just remember - (and this is only true when you start the restoration for real...)

Take the anticipated cost and the anticipated time to complete. Multiply both by Pi. This will get you into your ballpark if you follow the usual bell curve of completed restorations...

I really don't want to think about the money I have into my car over the years. Its way more then 10K. Probably close to 20K... for a car I'd probably be able to sell for $10K-14K.

Zach

Noted! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif) I'm actually well into the restoration for real (Intro from Montana thread). Only in the last couple days have I gotten to where I have cut enough of the rust out to estimate the cost with any confidence. In reality, it will probably go north of $10K but could potentially sneak under. I'm pretty confident I will stay under $15K though. What will really blow the budget is if I botch the DIY paint job and have to farm it out.

For time, my estimate is sometime before I die (hopefully). People keep asking when I think I will be done. I just say, "I'll be done when it is finished." For now, I'm enjoying the ride.

[Spoke]

I have a couple decisions to make soon on my restoration that could affect resale value of the car.
...
But what would a buyer looking for an original car think?
...
Just curious how far a person can deviate from dealer delivered original before the car loses that "all original premium"

I'm not sure there are many buyers looking for an all original 914. Most of us want a dependable 914 that we can drive that really scoots. As long as you do tasteful modifications, you shouldn't lose perceived value.

For opinions, here's my list of things to do:

o Repair rust, fix dents, paint (color of your choice or original)
o Delete or keep front side warts. Doesn't matter to me although removing safety lamps doesn't feel right.
o 5-lug upgrade: 911 front suspension with under- or through-body sway bar, re-drilled rear hubs with sway bar.
o 7x17 Euromeister Fuchs-look wheels all round with 205/50/17 tires.
o 96mm P & C with either carbs or FI
o Stainless Steel Heat Exchangers
o Bursch or equivalent performance muffler
o Rebuild transmission.
o Drive it like you stole it!

[TM_Corey]

I had my warts removed during restoration, but made sure the shop made me a perfect template so if a future owner ever wants to put them back on it will be easy to do so.

I can scan it if anyone ever wants it.

[bbrock]

I had my warts removed during restoration, but made sure the shop made me a perfect template so if a future owner ever wants to put them back on it will be easy to do so.

I can scan it if anyone ever wants it.

Ha! Perfect timing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) I was just getting ready to post that after staring at that hole in the fender for way too long and waffling back and forth on this, I've decided to apply wart remover and do exactly the same thing. I'll just make good templates beforehand and store them with what I have of the marker assemblies. After all the cutting and welding I've done, and still have to do to make this car solid again, re-drilling those holes will be minor surgery if there is ever a need to do it.

Let's face it, a car with euro signals and warts is just wrong. I also have an idea for using waterproof amber LED strips to replace the safety function of the warts without modifying the chassis and in a way where you would have to look hard to notice them. Playing with that is WAY down the road though.

Gorgeous car BTW! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

[ConeDodger]

The infamous George once said that flares and six conversion added the most value. Those modifications will cost much more value than they add unless your uncle left you a 3.2 and a bunch of conversion parts.
I have stuck faithfully with what the factory GT cars had. It makes me happy. In another 10 years, cars like Dr. Bizaglou's in Michigan will be untouchable price wise. Totally original and in preservation condition.

[Coondog]

I always laugh when people talk about 914 resale value. Where not talking real money here. 914-6 are the exception. OMG, maybe on your lucky day your bone stock 914 will bring a extra 5 grand. It's the stock low mile cars that are getting a higher price but those are far and few between.

Mod the crap out of your car I say and enjoy.

Now in 25 years when stock 914s are bringing 60K then you can call me out. Of course 60K Will be chump change in 2042.

[bbrock]

I always laugh when people talk about 914 resale value. Where not talking real money here. 914-6 are the exception. OMG, maybe on your lucky day your bone stock 914 will bring a extra 5 grand. It's the stock low mile cars that are getting a higher price but those are far and few between.

Mod the crap out of your car I say and enjoy.

Now in 25 years when stock 914s are bringing 60K then you can call me out. Of course 60K Will be chump change in 2042.

I agree with that to a point. Profit is not a motivation for me and I wish I could say I don't care about resale. But I do for two reasons. One is that because I originally bought my car for practically nothing, and did most of the engine work back when parts and labor were cheap, I have a very realistic chance of completing a major rustoration without going upside down. That alone, is a fun challenge - to go where few have gone before. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I also have to be realistic. I am self-employed with a wildly fluctuating and unpredictable income. I've done well-enough so far, but I always have to consider the possibility of a string of bad years. If I still own this car when I die, it means fortune has smiled upon me. But for prudence's sake, it behooves me to at least consider the monetary consequences of any decisions I make now. Resale is a lower priority for me, but not trivial. It's important to me to have reasonable assurance that if my financial fortunes should turn, I could get back out of this car what I put in. No delusions of getting rich here, I just want to be able to refill the piggy bank.

Also, I don't want to mod the crap out of my car. That's just not what floats my boat. Even if resale value had zero importance to me, I'd still be pondering these decisions. Believe it or not, it's part of the fun of it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[somd914]

So how many of us live in an unmodified house?

My boat and every boat I've sailed (race or cruise) have been modified.

My DD's get mods to make them more fun and/or practical.

If you are looking to make money, cut your losses and walk away now. You will not recoup your restoration costs, at least anytime soon. Both of my 914s were bought for pennies on the dollar.

Do what makes you happy and what brings a smile to your face when you are driving or admiring your project. And remember, the average depreciation of a new car in its first year or two will likely far exceed any gains you will see between stock or mods, but how many of us have bought or will buy new cars despite thoughts to keep a 914 stock for value sake?

Ultimately it is your decision, opinions vary widely...

[Coondog]

When it's not 100% original then I will take a Resto Mod any day........... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif)

[mgp4591]

Tasteful bolt-ons can make a BIG difference... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif)

[oakdalecurtis]

Here's a list of the mods I have done on my car in the last 20 years. Most of them are not that noticeable. If it makes it easier or more fun for me to drive though, it's a done deal.
Engine, Original 2.0 Liter, Fuel Injected
- Monza exhaust system
- Crane electronic ignition system

Chassis and Suspension
- Empi rims

Exterior
- Dual Hella horns
- Cloth lined front trunk
- Engine lid restraint cable
- Porsche stripes on doors
- Black Widow security alarm
- External main battery charger port
- LED front signal and running lights
- Front fender parking lights removed
- High mounted LED 3rd brake strobe light
- Porsche rear reflector lens with LED illumination
- Porsche front bumper plate with LED illumination
- BlazeCut automatic engine fire suppression system

Interior
- Short shift kit
- HD Mirror Camera
- Porsche dash light
- Passenger cupholder
- LED dash gauge lighting
- Heater On dash indicator light
- Solenoid activated rear trunk release
- Momo steering wheel with eccentric lift spacer
- Fog lights wired for use as Daytime Running Lights
- Tartan cloth seats with driver’s side cushion thigh lift
- Raised center console armrest with driver cupholder
- Repositioned brake pedal to increase gas pedal foot room
- Blaupunkt six speaker stereo system with electric antenna

[bbrock]

Here's a list of the mods I have done on my car in the last 20 years. Most of them are not that noticeable. If it makes it easier or more fun for me to drive though, it's a done deal.

That's a nice list of mods and the sort of things I like too. In my original post, I said there were a few bolt-on mods I have planned (some already done). I just wanted some information on the more permanent ones to decide if they were worth it to me. But here is a list of mods cone or planned for this car.

Already done:

- Dual Weber 40 IDF carbs with Bosch 050 dizzy
- mild street grind carb cam
- Mahle 94mm 8.0:1 (euro spec) P/C
- Porsche crest shift knob
- European lenses front and rear
- Black window and roll bar trim
- Bursch exhaust
- SS heat exchangers

Planned:
- SVA dizzy with Pertronix ignition and high output coil
- Custom hand throttle to operate cold start circuit on carbs
- Subwoofer in passenger foot well
- Ash tray modified as cupholder
- Modern (Blaupunkt) stereo head unit
- Side marker delete
- Upgraded headlamps (not sure what yet)
- Rear window defrost (OEM switch with non-OEM element)
- LED lamps where ever I can plug and play
- Tinted windshield
- Intermittent wiper relay
- Starter relay
- Main battery circuit breaker
- Dual Hella horns

In the maybe pile:
- Evan0's relay and fuse panel update
- Fog or driving lights
- Fuel pump relocate to trunk
- Replacement center cushion with cup holders
- Replace clock with oil pressure gauge (probably will since I already have the gauge and dual sending unit)
- Modified combo gauge with CHT and Oil pressure (so I can put my clock back in the center console)
- Quieter exhaust

I drove this car a number of years and know how fast (or slow) it is. It is just dandy for me. I especially enjoyed getting up to 37 mpg highway. The carb conversion is just because the EFI kept leaving me stranded and, back in 1988 or '89 when I pulled the engine, carbs were just what you did when you got sick of the EFI crapping on you. I want to run these carbs for awhile. But I might spend a winter refurbing the EFI and go back to that. One thing I won't be changing is the tire pressurized washer bottle. I love that quirky bastard and found it provided the perfect excuse if I peed myself after going into a curve a bit too fast. "Oh that? My damn windshield washer tube sprung a leak again."

These are all mods to make the car more reliable, comfortable, or safe without significantly altering the stock appearance or ride. All but the two I originally asked about will be done without altering the original part, which will be stored. And all but those two are easily reversible.

I have nothing against mods - obviously. But I find it curious that so many people have told me it is MY car and I should do what I want. Yet, make fun of the idea of wanting to keep a car original. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[forrestkhaag]

Here's a list of the mods I have done on my car in the last 20 years. Most of them are not that noticeable. If it makes it easier or more fun for me to drive though, it's a done deal.

That's a nice list of mods and the sort of things I like too. In my original post, I said there were a few bolt-on mods I have planned (some already done). I just wanted some information on the more permanent ones to decide if they were worth it to me. But here is a list of mods cone or planned for this car.

Already done:

- Dual Weber 40 IDF carbs with Bosch 050 dizzy
- mild street grind carb cam
- Mahle 94mm 8.0:1 (euro spec) P/C
- Porsche crest shift knob
- European lenses front and rear
- Black window and roll bar trim
- Bursch exhaust
- SS heat exchangers

Planned:
- SVA dizzy with Pertronix ignition and high output coil
- Custom hand throttle to operate cold start circuit on carbs
- Subwoofer in passenger foot well
- Ash tray modified as cupholder
- Modern (Blaupunkt) stereo head unit
- Side marker delete
- Upgraded headlamps (not sure what yet)
- Rear window defrost (OEM switch with non-OEM element)
- LED lamps where ever I can plug and play
- Tinted windshield
- Intermittent wiper relay
- Starter relay
- Main battery circuit breaker
- Dual Hella horns

In the maybe pile:
- Evan0's relay and fuse panel update
- Fog or driving lights
- Fuel pump relocate to trunk
- Replacement center cushion with cup holders
- Replace clock with oil pressure gauge (probably will since I already have the gauge and dual sending unit)
- Modified combo gauge with CHT and Oil pressure (so I can put my clock back in the center console)
- Quieter exhaust

I drove this car a number of years and know how fast (or slow) it is. It is just dandy for me. I especially enjoyed getting up to 37 mpg highway. The carb conversion is just because the EFI kept leaving me stranded and, back in 1988 or '89 when I pulled the engine, carbs were just what you did when you got sick of the EFI crapping on you. I want to run these carbs for awhile. But I might spend a winter refurbing the EFI and go back to that. One thing I won't be changing is the tire pressurized washer bottle. I love that quirky bastard and found it provided the perfect excuse if I peed myself after going into a curve a bit too fast. "Oh that? My damn windshield washer tube sprung a leak again."

These are all mods to make the car more reliable, comfortable, or safe without significantly altering the stock appearance or ride. All but the two I originally asked about will be done without altering the original part, which will be stored. And all but those two are easily reversible.

I have nothing against mods - obviously. But I find it curious that so many people have told me it is MY car and I should do what I want. Yet, make fun of the idea of wanting to keep a car original. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I had warts when I was a kid. I still have two of them.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[Dominic]

I actually asked this question at a Valuation seminar that I attended during the Porsche Parade in Spokane. The presenter was a very well versed in Porsche's new and old. Since I have a steel flared 914-6, I was curious as to the overall effect on the value.
The term he used was "Acceptable Modifications". If you have a car with what the Porsche community considers "Acceptable Modifications" you probably didn't hurt the value too much. For our 914's, steel flares and -6 conversions (for example) are welcomed with open arms. When you stray from the "Acceptable Modifications" rule of thumb and start to cut/chop/personalize, etc. you now have a hard time placing a resale value on a car that others may not appreciate.

In the end, it's your car. Have fun with it! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[Coondog]

For our 914's, steel flares and -6 conversions (for example) are welcomed with open arms.

In the end, it's your car. Have fun with it! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) because no one else wants to spend the money it takes to do these conversions......

[larryM]

well said - that covers it completely (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

All mods effect value. Most are not upgrades and devalue the car because they are too personalized. Those that do add value usually cost more than the value they add.

Buying a modified car is buying someone else's "improvements". Whether a future buyer wants them is anyone's guess and the value cannot be known until their money is in your pocket.

[Dave_Darling]

I always laugh when people talk about 914 resale value. Where not talking real money here.

There is an $85,000 1.8 liter 914 that would beg to disagree with you... (With the buyer's premium, it's just about a six-figure 75 1.8! With some repaired/replaced body panels!!)

--DD

[mepstein]

I always laugh when people talk about 914 resale value. Where not talking real money here.

There is an $85,000 1.8 liter 914 that would beg to disagree with you... (With the buyer's premium, it's just about a six-figure 75 1.8! With some repaired/replaced body panels!!)

--DD

It was a unicorn. At least for now. Not to mention the amount of fraud at auctions is staggering.

[horizontally-opposed]

Older Porsches, unlike Ferraris in general and vintage Corvettes, seem to do just fine when modified—*if* modified tastefully with broad appeal. Translation, with rare exception: In a way that looks like something the factory might have done in a way it might have done it. A really well done 914-6 GT like Eric Shea's. Or a six conversion or real 914-6 hot rod done to a very high level. Or a 914-4 hot rod that's simply done really, really well. There are others out there who would rather have those cars than a perfect stock example, and will pay up for them. Some R Gruppe 911s and some 356 Outlaws meet this standard, as do certain modified 964s and 993s. There are other examples—and in some cases the cars can go for more than a stock example in similar condition with similar mileage. Pickled cars (ultra low mileage, as new condition) are another matter, and are generally king of the hill—save certain celebrity cars (McQueen 911S or 930).

So, to your question about the warts, I'd get rid of them with zero regrets (and did on my car). Porsche certainly did not view them as a visual upgrade, else it would have included them on all RoW cars. Those side markers were a compromise to meet US laws, and have never looked good to these eyes. Now, I wouldn't get rid of them on a perfect, all-original 914, but I have no interest in owning a perfect, all-original 914 (unless it's a 914-6 GT!).

[Keyser Sose]

Older Porsches, unlike Ferraris in general and vintage Corvettes, seem to do just fine when modified—*if* modified tastefully with broad appeal. Translation, with rare exception: In a way that looks like something the factory might have done in a way it might have done it. A really well done 914-6 GT like Eric Shea's. Or a six conversion or real 914-6 hot rod done to a very high level. Or a 914-4 hot rod that's simply done really, really well. There are others out there who would rather have those cars than a perfect stock example, and will pay up for them. Some R Gruppe 911s and some 356 Outlaws meet this standard, as do certain modified 964s and 993s. There are other examples—and in some cases the cars can go for more than a stock example in similar condition with similar mileage. Pickled cars (ultra low mileage, as new condition) are another matter, and are generally king of the hill—save certain celebrity cars (McQueen 911S or 930).

So, to your question about the warts, I'd get rid of them with zero regrets (and did on my car). Porsche certainly did not view them as a visual upgrade, else it would have included them on all RoW cars. Those side markers were a compromise to meet US laws, and have never looked good to these eyes. Now, I wouldn't get rid of them on a perfect, all-original 914, but I have no interest in owning a perfect, all-original 914 (unless it's a 914-6 GT!).

Amen to that, especially the "...I have no interest in owning a perfect, all-original 914 (unless it's a 914-6 GT!)."